On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Stephan Hermann wrote:
from the ISPs. I can filter out the relay hosts, ok...but our customers gets e.g. mail from customers of sprint, and I block the incoming connection from customer-mail-relay.sprint.net (e.g.!!!). Well...then I can go and close my business ;)
No, if we want to stop those spammers, the logical idea is, that all ISPs which are housing such spammers must ban them from their servers. They must disconnect every PoP, which is housing such spam customers.
yea... close all PoP's and "I can go and close my business ;)" I don't know how it is in other countries but here most of the customers are POP users. Direct lines ? Geee.. Only bigger companies can afford it. So when u get a spam, its from dial-line. most often.try to find who was it ?
Well, in Germany we have several problems with aol germany and t-online (a service by Deutsche Telekom). What can we do ? Block the connections to aol.com ? block the connections to t-online ?
there is an ISP called Polbox here in Poland. they've got about 50 000 accounts ( people says that ). all these accounts are for free. people can get their www for free too... U can imagine what kind of people are on this server ( free.polbox.pl ).
if I do that, I'm going to get so much angry mails from my customers, that I wish: "Give me Spams..but no more mails from my customers". I don't know the situation in other countries, but blocking is not the answer of our problem.
exactly. appropiate filters should be huge...
We must find an answer, in a quite "commercial sense". Those people, IMHO, stop spamming, if they get an invoice for IP traffic or a letter from our lawyer.
or there is another solution: if all administrators will be consequent ( is it right word ? ), and not to give accounts to people who are on "Great Index of Spammers - year XXXX". :))) but this happens only in heaven :(
well..some of the customers wants to get those mails (yes...it's the truth...I don't know why, I think they're happy to receive email ;))
:)))))
The only way to stop this is, to get a position in the contract between service provider and PoP, or between service provider and customers, that the PoP and/or the customer are billed for such traffic. You know, "money makes the world go round".
special fees for spamming ? :)
One (technical) idea can be, to install two smtp server:
All this does is stop you relaying. You can do this on one server with the no relay patches on http://www.sendmail.org/ if you can get the IP address stuff to work right, though we use two servers for other reasons.
well...we're changing our internal network to a secure server network (SSN). So, my second smtp server is in this SSN and the first smtp server is in front of that network. so, our second smtp can go out, but no one can get in and use my second smtp for relaying :)
yes, but his is solution for a company not for ISP [ when u are at end of line ]. not when u've got connection to 2 or more AS's. Miroslaw Jaworski ___________________________________________________________________________ Miroslaw.Jaworski@ikp.com.pl (Psyborg) MJ102-RIPE ATM S.A. - IKP division WAN/UNIX adm
Hi, At 12:58 01.10.97 -6000, Miroslaw Jaworski wrote:
On Wed, 1 Oct 1997, Stephan Hermann wrote:
from the ISPs. I can filter out the relay hosts, ok...but our customers gets e.g. mail from customers of sprint, and I block the incoming connection from customer-mail-relay.sprint.net (e.g.!!!). Well...then I can go and close my business ;)
No, if we want to stop those spammers, the logical idea is, that all ISPs which are housing such spammers must ban them from their servers. They must disconnect every PoP, which is housing such spam customers.
yea... close all PoP's and "I can go and close my business ;)"
Nono..disconnecting, not closing. If any PoPs of an ISP (such as our PoPs), are housing those spammers, I would disconnect them...if it's an problem with their smtp server...well I help them to close it for spams :)
I don't know how it is in other countries but here most of the customers are POP users. Direct lines ? Geee.. Only bigger companies can afford it.
So when u get a spam, its from dial-line. most often.try to find who was it ?
well, in USA the leased lines are very cheap, I think many spammers have leased lines to cheap PoPs/ISPs.
Well, in Germany we have several problems with aol germany and t-online (a service by Deutsche Telekom). What can we do ? Block the connections to aol.com ? block the connections to t-online ?
there is an ISP called Polbox here in Poland. they've got about 50 000 accounts ( people says that ). all these accounts are for free. people can get their www for free too... U can imagine what kind of people are on this server ( free.polbox.pl ).
Yes :)
We must find an answer, in a quite "commercial sense". Those people, IMHO, stop spamming, if they get an invoice for IP traffic or a letter from our lawyer.
or there is another solution: if all administrators will be consequent ( is it right word ? ), and not to give accounts to people who are on "Great Index of Spammers - year XXXX". :)))
The only way to stop this is, to get a position in the contract between service provider and PoP, or between service provider and customers, that the PoP and/or the customer are billed for such traffic. You know, "money makes the world go round".
special fees for spamming ? :)
Well..."commercial sense" I mean: a letter from my lawyer...increasing the charges for the connection or something like that. take the money from the people who are using the net for their unsocialize things, and they are crying. Money is the only thing they want to make, and money is the only thing you let them stop. Net Charging Rates for those business (especially many "hardcore"-businesses) must be high...and metaprovider like sprint, uunet and of course every isp who is connected through them, must increase those rates for those customers. you know what I want to say ?
well...we're changing our internal network to a secure server network (SSN). So, my second smtp server is in this SSN and the first smtp server is in front of that network. so, our second smtp can go out, but no one can get in and use my second smtp for relaying :)
yes, but his is solution for a company not for ISP [ when u are at end of line ]. not when u've got connection to 2 or more AS's.
Nono..our internal network == my own network to provide access for our customers. For our PoPs we cannot solve the spam probblem, we can help them to stop this problem, but we're not the parents of our PoPs admins ;) they must close their smtp themself. only for our internal network (with dial-in ports and the whole crap you need for providing ;)) ReadU, sh -- Stephan Hermann, techn. Leiter Netzwerk u. Telekommunikation eMail: sh@nwu.de NWU Gesellschaft fuer Netzwerke und Telekommunikation mbH Tel.: +49-231-9860143 Heinrichstr. 51, 44536 Luenen FAX : +49-231-9860148
At 12:58 01.10.97 -6000, Miroslaw Jaworski wrote:
I don't know how it is in other countries but here most of the customers are POP users. Direct lines ? Geee.. Only bigger companies can afford it.
So when u get a spam, its from dial-line. most often.try to find who was it ?
Well, we, at least, log every login. So if someone does something stupid (which happens often enough), we need the IP-address and the exact time, and we can trace the user without problems. What surprises me, is that it seems like a lot of ISPs don't do this. I would have thought that it was natural to log; not only for tracing abuse-cases, but also for support, statistics etc. It's actually easier to trace spamming made by a dial-up customer than one with a leased line, since we, with dial-up accounts, can trace back to _one_ person, not a whole company. -- Med vennlig hilsen/Regards Ina Faye-Lund Telenor Nextel AS
participants (3)
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Ina Faye-Lund -
Miroslaw Jaworski -
Stephan Hermann