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Alexander Gall has summarized it pretty well - if we want to give out /48s freely, then the quite conservative RIR->LIR allocation policy currently in place *hurts*.

Very true if you mean that you cannot build a reasonable hierarchy.

Actually, this is the thing that makes the use of the /42 block out of SURFnet's sTLA to RIPE (Meeting et.al.), The NCC and the employees interesting: I do see it as people actually trying to _live_ and document that hierarchy - LIR => RIPE NCC (status: ALLOCATED-BY-LIR) => various assignments by the RIPE NCC.

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As for the argument "are universities ISPs"? Yes, at least over here, a fair number of them are providing IP connectivity to the student's hostels via leased line/ethernet, and to all other students via ISDN/Modem dialup. So for all address management purposes, they are ISPs.

This is true in the Netherlands too.

Same here. We even operate our own ADSL gear on-site for connecting hostels, students, etc.

Yes, I think those should be treated as ISPs, probably getting a prefix (>> /48) from their NRN.

That's something we are trying to get a feeling for at the moment. My approach for _now_ is to treat a University's (extended) LAN as one site (i.e. lives within 1 /48), and the hostels and remote customers' (students and faculty) networks as a site (/48 typically or /64 in special circumstances) each. As regards the address distribution procedures I still maintain that there is no technical or logical difference between a university's "customer" which happens to be staff or student as compared to a "regular" customer serviced by a "commercial" ISP. Also, the technology used to ship IPv6 packets should be irrelevant for this discussion, i.e. a native link or an IPv6 in IPv4 tunnel to such a network doesn't make a difference.

rvdp

Btw, regarding the discussion of what a "site" is - my current interpretation here is that a "site" is the entity I am talking to with regard to network planning and address space management. And if that entity most probably uses more than a singel subnet, then I usually stick to the /48 recommendation. Wilfried. _________________________________:_____________________________________ Wilfried Woeber : e-mail: Woeber@CC.UniVie.ac.at UniVie Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33 Universitaetsstrasse 7 : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140 A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : RIPE-DB: WW144, PGP keyID 0xF0ACB369 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~