Hello, We have a customer that has got a range of IP addresses from one Provider (say X) and he now would like to use these addresses via our network. Our sales representatives say it is possible to do it 1) If Provider X is OK 2) If we have got the agreement from RIPE Is it correct ? Would you know which RIPE's form would be used then? Thanks Andreas
Hi, On Thu, Aug 02, 2001 at 09:40:25AM +0200, Roehling, Andreas wrote:
We have a customer that has got a range of IP addresses from one Provider (say X) and he now would like to use these addresses via our network.
Our sales representatives say it is possible to do it 1) If Provider X is OK 2) If we have got the agreement from RIPE
Is it correct ?
No. There are two things to distinguish: PA ("provider aggregateable") address space - this can NOT be used with a different ISP. The customer can use it for a transition period, and then it has to be returned to the old ISP. You can see this if you do a whois -h whois.ripe.net <address> and it returns "status: ASSIGNED PA". PI ("provider independent") address space - this could theoretically be used. You do not have to ask the old ISP or RIPE for permission. You just register the routes in the RIPE database, ask the old ISP to stop announcing them, and start announcing them via BGP. PI space has other disadvantages, though, like "much harder to debug if some goal in the Internet cannot be reached", so we usually recommend to the customer to return his PI space to RIPE and accept PI space from us (unless the PI block is very large and the customer network so complex that it would make renumbering too hard). PI space appears as "status: ASSIGNED PI".
Would you know which RIPE's form would be used then?
It might be a good idea to send one of your hostmasters to a RIPE training - all those questions are covered in deep detail there (and it's free!), so you don't have to ask your *sales* people about technical procedures. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299
Hi, On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 10:33:12AM +0200, Gert Doering wrote:
PI ("provider independent") address space - this could theoretically be used. You do not have to ask the old ISP or RIPE for permission. You just register the routes in the RIPE database, ask the old ISP to stop announcing them, and start announcing them via BGP. PI space has other disadvantages, though, like "much harder to debug if some goal in the Internet cannot be reached", so we usually recommend to the customer to return his PI space to RIPE and accept PI space from us
This should read "and accept PA space from us". Sorry for the typo. (I've exchanged a few more mails with Andreas in between, and it seems that the issue isn't explained clearly enough in the RIPE LIR course - but in any case it's documented in the "policies and procedures" RIPE document. The network in question is PA space, and the answer is "you can route it for a certain time, if both ISPs agree, but then the PA space HAS to be returned to the ISP it belongs to"). Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299
Andreas, I don't know whether it's possible or not, but you have to consider the effects. Your network will announce the specific (customer) network (e.g. /24), you can't summarize, while provider X, is announcing a summary address for that network since he has the whole block (e.g. /20). This way all the traffic for that customer will flow through your network, because of more specific announce you made. In the other way around (cust. --> internet) your customer can make some load balancing. Hope this help, Secondo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roehling, Andreas" <Andreas.Roehling@lambdanet.net> To: <lir-wg@ripe.net> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 9:40 AM Subject: One question about RIPE
Hello,
We have a customer that has got a range of IP addresses from one Provider (say X) and he now would like to use these addresses via our network.
Our sales representatives say it is possible to do it 1) If Provider X is OK 2) If we have got the agreement from RIPE
Is it correct ?
Would you know which RIPE's form would be used then?
Thanks
Andreas
Andreas At 08:40 02/08/2001, Roehling, Andreas wrote:
We have a customer that has got a range of IP addresses from one Provider (say X) and he now would like to use these addresses via our network. Our sales representatives say it is possible to do it 1) If Provider X is OK 2) If we have got the agreement from RIPE Is it correct ?
This is only correct if the customer is using PI space. If the other provider has assigned PA space to the customer, then they will have to get a new set of addresses from you and renumber their network when they start a service with you. If the customer does have PI space from the other provider then you have to consider the size of the address space the customer is bringing in and whether it is worth *your* effort to route that size of block (say if the customer has a /24) through your network and whether it would be beneficial to the customer. HTH Regards Denesh -- Denesh Bhabuta Chairman, CEO and Principal Consultant Cyberstrider Limited www.cyberstrider.net Internet and E-Commerce: Strategy, Consultancy and Solutions
Andreas.Roehling@lambdanet.net wrot:
We have a customer that has got a range of IP addresses from one Provider (say X) and he now would like to use these addresses via our network.
Our sales representatives say it is possible to do it 1) If Provider X is OK 2) If we have got the agreement from RIPE
Is it correct ?
If the address space originates from the RIPE NCC, it depends upon whether the space is Provider Independent (PI) or Provider Aggregatable (PA) address space. (Have a look @ RIPE-217: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/pi-pa.html .) If it's PI address space, then it's your decision as to whether you want to announce it, which may not be advisable depending upon the size of the assignment. (Speak to your Networks team...)
Would you know which RIPE's form would be used then?
Not applicable, as the Provider X made the assignment and should have already completed a RIPE-141/219. You wouldn't be making an assignment, therefore no need for any RIPE 'form.' You would need to amend the RIPE db record for the assignment though (route object, maintainter, etc.). HTH. What's the IP assignment? Sam ----------------------------------------------------------------- sam bradford, hostmaster team leader sam.bradford@demon.net Demon Internet / Thus plc . hostmaster@demon.net Tel: +44-845-272-0666 . . http://www.demon.net/ Fax: +44-20-8371-1285 t h u s http://www.thus.net/
participants (5)
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Denesh Bhabuta -
Gert Doering -
Roehling, Andreas -
Sam Bradford -
Secondo Gentili