"Stephen Burley" <stephenb@uk.uu.net> writes: * Thankyou. Where is this documented? Hi Stephen, Please have a look at document RIPE-185 "European Internet Registry Policies and Procedures, http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ir-policies-procedures.html#toc75 [..] Technical Details Current assignment guidelines require a network to be multihomed for an AS number to be assigned. When a registry applies for an ASN, it needs to submit the routing policy of the Autonomous System that requires an AS number. ... 7.2.Returning an AS Number If an oranisation has an AS number that is no longer in use, it can be returned to the public pool of AS numbers by sending a message to <hostmaster@ripe.net>, it can then be re-assigned to another autonomous system by the RIPE NCC. [..] By sending out messages asking if an AS number is in use (multihomed) or not the RIPE NCC makes sure this policy is applied. As mentioned in my previous message if it turns out that an AS number appears not to be in use after being assigned for almost a year (or more) the LIR should consider to return it. Regards, Sabrina Wilmot -- o------------------------------------------o | Sabrina Wilmot sabrina@ripe.net | | Registration Services Operations Manager | | | | RIPE NCC tel +31 20 535 4444 | | www.ripe.net fax +31 20 535 4445 | o------------------------------------------o * > Hi, * > * > "Stephen Burley" <stephenb@uk.uu.net> writes: * > * Hi * > * I am a bit concerned about an email we recieved threatening the * > * revokation of an assigned AS number if it did not appear to be used. It * > * concerns me for a number of reasons. * > * * > * 1. Our customer has had problems with other providers and there own * network, * > * which has postponed the intended use of the AS for quite a few month, * all * > * due to things out of their and our control. * > * > This can always happen and we do ask several times for information before * > mentioning the option of returning an assigned AS number which appears not * > to be in use. The first time we ask is 6 months after the assignment. * > * > * 2. If you do revoke it then the customer may suddenly get things fixed * and * > * start using the AS as intended but in the meantime you assign it to * another * > * customer and the problems ensue. If you do not assign it why whould you * ask * > * for it back? * > * > If you do not use it why should you keep it? :) * > Our intention is to make sure AS numbers are used and not wasted. * > * > We send several reminders asking about the status and this process is * > taking a couple of months. If you are not able to start using the AS * > number after a long time we ask you to return it. To date the RIPE NCC * > Hostmasters could always find an agreement with the LIRs to return AS * > numbers that appeared not to be in use. * > * > We do reassign returned AS numbers *not* straight away but after a certain * > time period ("sleeping time") and ... * > * > * 3. Just because an AS does not appear in the looking glass does not * mean * > * that its not being used in situation which does not mean it does not * need to * > * be announced at any looking glass. * > * > ... we do not only use the Looiking Glass to find the number of peers. We * look * > back in time at least on several days using 'asiuse' - publicly know as * the * > RIS Database, from New Projects. * > * > * Please could you clarify this situation? * > * * > * Regards * > * Stephen Burley * > * UUNET EMEA Hostmaster * > * SB855-RIPE * > * * > * > * > Regards, * > * > Sabrina Wilmot * > * > -- * > * > o------------------------------------------o * > | Sabrina Wilmot sabrina@ripe.net | * > | Registration Services Operations Manager | * > | | * > | RIPE NCC tel +31 20 535 4444 | * > | www.ripe.net fax +31 20 535 4445 | * > o------------------------------------------o * > * > *
On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 02:51:38PM +0100, Sabrina Wilmot wrote:
"Stephen Burley" <stephenb@uk.uu.net> writes: * Thankyou. Where is this documented?
Hi Stephen,
Please have a look at document RIPE-185 "European Internet Registry Policies and Procedures, http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ir-policies-procedures.html#toc75
[..] Technical Details
Current assignment guidelines require a network to be multihomed for an AS number to be assigned. When a registry applies for an ASN, it needs to submit the routing policy of the Autonomous System that requires an AS number. ...
7.2.Returning an AS Number
If an oranisation has an AS number that is no longer in use, it can be returned to the public pool of AS numbers by sending a message to <hostmaster@ripe.net>, it can then be re-assigned to another autonomous system by the RIPE NCC. [..]
There is a considerable difference between "it can be returned" and "it must be returned". The former is what RIPE-185 says, the latter is what the RIPE NCC seems to be applying.
By sending out messages asking if an AS number is in use (multihomed) or not the RIPE NCC makes sure this policy is applied. As mentioned in my previous message if it turns out that an AS number appears not to be in use after being assigned for almost a year (or more) the LIR should consider to return it.
I grant this, but there is a difference between considering the return of the AS (which we should all do as good netizens), and the RIPE NCC forcing its return. Or am I completely off base? Nigel
Regards,
Sabrina Wilmot --
o------------------------------------------o | Sabrina Wilmot sabrina@ripe.net | | Registration Services Operations Manager | | | | RIPE NCC tel +31 20 535 4444 | | www.ripe.net fax +31 20 535 4445 | o------------------------------------------o
* > Hi, * > * > "Stephen Burley" <stephenb@uk.uu.net> writes: * > * Hi * > * I am a bit concerned about an email we recieved threatening the * > * revokation of an assigned AS number if it did not appear to be used. It * > * concerns me for a number of reasons. * > * * > * 1. Our customer has had problems with other providers and there own * network, * > * which has postponed the intended use of the AS for quite a few month, * all * > * due to things out of their and our control. * > * > This can always happen and we do ask several times for information before * > mentioning the option of returning an assigned AS number which appears not * > to be in use. The first time we ask is 6 months after the assignment. * > * > * 2. If you do revoke it then the customer may suddenly get things fixed * and * > * start using the AS as intended but in the meantime you assign it to * another * > * customer and the problems ensue. If you do not assign it why whould you * ask * > * for it back? * > * > If you do not use it why should you keep it? :) * > Our intention is to make sure AS numbers are used and not wasted. * > * > We send several reminders asking about the status and this process is * > taking a couple of months. If you are not able to start using the AS * > number after a long time we ask you to return it. To date the RIPE NCC * > Hostmasters could always find an agreement with the LIRs to return AS * > numbers that appeared not to be in use. * > * > We do reassign returned AS numbers *not* straight away but after a certain * > time period ("sleeping time") and ... * > * > * 3. Just because an AS does not appear in the looking glass does not * mean * > * that its not being used in situation which does not mean it does not * need to * > * be announced at any looking glass. * > * > ... we do not only use the Looiking Glass to find the number of peers. We * look * > back in time at least on several days using 'asiuse' - publicly know as * the * > RIS Database, from New Projects. * > * > * Please could you clarify this situation? * > * * > * Regards * > * Stephen Burley * > * UUNET EMEA Hostmaster * > * SB855-RIPE * > * * > * > * > Regards, * > * > Sabrina Wilmot * > * > -- * > * > o------------------------------------------o * > | Sabrina Wilmot sabrina@ripe.net | * > | Registration Services Operations Manager | * > | | * > | RIPE NCC tel +31 20 535 4444 | * > | www.ripe.net fax +31 20 535 4445 | * > o------------------------------------------o * > * > *
--
On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 02:51:38PM +0100, Sabrina Wilmot wrote:
"Stephen Burley" <stephenb@uk.uu.net> writes: * Thankyou. Where is this documented?
Hi Stephen,
Please have a look at document RIPE-185 "European Internet Registry Policies and Procedures, http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ir-policies-procedures.html#toc75
[..] Technical Details
Current assignment guidelines require a network to be multihomed for an AS number to be assigned. When a registry applies for an ASN, it needs to submit the routing policy of the Autonomous System that requires an AS number. ...
7.2.Returning an AS Number
If an oranisation has an AS number that is no longer in use, it can be returned to the public pool of AS numbers by sending a message to
<hostmaster@ripe.net>, it
can then be re-assigned to another autonomous system by the RIPE NCC. [..]
There is a considerable difference between "it can be returned" and "it must be returned".
The former is what RIPE-185 says, the latter is what the RIPE NCC seems to be applying.
By sending out messages asking if an AS number is in use (multihomed) or
not
the RIPE NCC makes sure this policy is applied. As mentioned in my
----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel Titley" <nigel@packetexchange.net> To: <ncc@ripe.net> Cc: "Stephen Burley" <stephenb@uk.uu.net>; <lir-wg@ripe.net> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 3:28 PM Subject: Re: AS number revokes previous
message if it turns out that an AS number appears not to be in use after being assigned for almost a year (or more) the LIR should consider to return it.
I grant this, but there is a difference between considering the return of the AS (which we should all do as good netizens), and the RIPE NCC forcing its return.
Agreed this was what i was looking for in the documentation and it is not there.
Or am I completely off base?
Nigel
Regards,
Sabrina Wilmot --
o------------------------------------------o | Sabrina Wilmot sabrina@ripe.net | | Registration Services Operations Manager | | | | RIPE NCC tel +31 20 535 4444 | | www.ripe.net fax +31 20 535 4445 | o------------------------------------------o
* > Hi, * > * > "Stephen Burley" <stephenb@uk.uu.net> writes: * > * Hi * > * I am a bit concerned about an email we recieved threatening
* > * revokation of an assigned AS number if it did not appear to be used. It * > * concerns me for a number of reasons. * > * * > * 1. Our customer has had problems with other providers and there own * network, * > * which has postponed the intended use of the AS for quite a few month, * all * > * due to things out of their and our control. * > * > This can always happen and we do ask several times for information before * > mentioning the option of returning an assigned AS number which appears not * > to be in use. The first time we ask is 6 months after the assignment. * > * > * 2. If you do revoke it then the customer may suddenly get things fixed * and * > * start using the AS as intended but in the meantime you assign it to * another * > * customer and the problems ensue. If you do not assign it why whould you * ask * > * for it back? * > * > If you do not use it why should you keep it? :) * > Our intention is to make sure AS numbers are used and not wasted. * > * > We send several reminders asking about the status and this process is * > taking a couple of months. If you are not able to start using the AS * > number after a long time we ask you to return it. To date the RIPE NCC * > Hostmasters could always find an agreement with the LIRs to return AS * > numbers that appeared not to be in use. * > * > We do reassign returned AS numbers *not* straight away but after a certain * > time period ("sleeping time") and ... * > * > * 3. Just because an AS does not appear in the looking glass does not * mean * > * that its not being used in situation which does not mean it does not * need to * > * be announced at any looking glass. * > * > ... we do not only use the Looiking Glass to find the number of
the peers. We
* look * > back in time at least on several days using 'asiuse' - publicly know as * the * > RIS Database, from New Projects. * > * > * Please could you clarify this situation? * > * * > * Regards * > * Stephen Burley * > * UUNET EMEA Hostmaster * > * SB855-RIPE * > * * > * > * > Regards, * > * > Sabrina Wilmot * > * > -- * > * > o------------------------------------------o * > | Sabrina Wilmot sabrina@ripe.net | * > | Registration Services Operations Manager | * > | | * > | RIPE NCC tel +31 20 535 4444 | * > | www.ripe.net fax +31 20 535 4445 | * > o------------------------------------------o * > * > *
--
I grant this, but there is a difference between considering the return of the AS (which we should all do as good netizens), and the RIPE NCC forcing its return.
Agreed this was what i was looking for in the documentation and it is not there.
Right. There's a difference between "can", "should" and "must". ...and... can we please trim down the responses so that needless cruft in the replies are not included? Regards, - Håvard
Dear all, During last RIPE meeting, I don't remember seeing statistics about how many AS numbers or what volume of IP space are being reclaimed from LIRs. Maybe it would be a good idea to include such numbers in the next Registration Services Report... Pierre.
participants (5)
-
Havard Eidnes -
Nigel Titley -
Pierre Baume -
Sabrina Wilmot -
Stephen Burley