Hi, as you might remember, there was a lengthy discussion on this list about sub-allocations, reservations (yes, the ugly word) of IP address blocks for LIR customers that are themselves resellers, and so on. James Aldridge originally proposed something that ended up in being "status: LIR-PARTITIONED PA/PI". I just checked the RIPE DB, and there are just 7 objects in the RIPE database that use this at all, and 6 of them are by one maintainer. This matches my feelings of LIR-PARTITIONED - "nice try, but this isn't what I imagined". I think "official sub-allocations" are more useful, and have written up a proposal for this (based on the discussion here and at the LIR-WG meeting in Prague). Give it a good discussion and let's decide something in Amsterdam... gert --------- snip ---------- Motivation: - Some LIRs have internal hierarchies, like "resellers that have their own end customers". - For aggregation reasons internal to the LIR network, LIRs "allocate" address space to their resellers ("hierarchical sub-LIRs"), who then "assign" addresse from that to their customers. Usually the LIR has to approve all end-user requests, but the sub-LIR is doing the actual assignment from the "allocated" space. - The current policy doesn't explicitely permit this, but acknowledges to some extent that it is done. - When the LIR goes to the RIR to get another allocation, the 80% rule does not take into account the fact that some of the "not assigned" space may be in fact "sub-allocated" to a "sub-LIR", thus it may be very hard to reach 80% (and will lead to internal fragmentation). (This is what Wilfried calls "reservation") - The sub-allocations are not documented, so an outsider cannot see who might be the best contact (the reseller!) if one of the end customers misbehaves (this part could be solved with "LIR-PARTITIONED"). Proposal: - permit LIRs to sub-allocate the address allocation they receive from a RIR to "downstream parties", from now on called sub-LIRs - the Sub-Allocations are documented as an inetnum: object with "status: SUB-ALLOCATED PA" in the RIPE database. I do not like "LIR-PARTITIONED", because it isn't partitioned ("equal parts"), and also because it doesn't go far enough. - All assignments from the Sub-Allocation are done by the Sub-LIR. The Sub-LIR is responsible to the LIR for following policies and procedures. The LIR is responsible to the RIR for making sure that the Sub-LIR follows the procedures. This is no big difference from what is being *done* now, it's just "officially documented". - When the LIR has to apply for an additional allocation, the Sub-Allocation are counted for the "80% utilization rule". So, to show an extreme example, a LIR that has sub-allocated 90% to its resellers, and they have only assigned a total of 30% of the total allocation yet, the LIR *would be* entitled to get a new allocation (under the current policy, it is not). In extreme cases, it might be necessary to show lots of good documentation to the RIR as for "why did you allocate so much". Points of Concern: - "They will just waste address space". Yes, it will waste some space, due to better aggregation. It is not expected that this will waste space due to "sloppyness" in following the policies and procedures - each hierarchy level will be fully responsible for making sure that the next-lower level will understand the rules and follow them. It is similar to what IANA and the RIRs do. The RIRs try to hand out address space in a responsible way (which does not always succeeed, which is why changes to the procedures are made, like /19 -> /20 for the initial allocation), and in this proposal, the LIRs have to hand out space to the sub-LIRs in a responsible way. If the RIRs mess up, they have a problem with IANA, if the LIRs mess up, they have a problem with their RIR. - "How big shall the sub-allocation be"? The exact numbers for the default case would have to be defined. Again, this is similar to the RIR->LIR case. A LIR by default gets a /20, but might get a bigger space in case it produces a good forecast that shows a reasonable need for a bigger space. I propose to give a Sub-LIR a /24 to start with, except in cases that they show evidence for needing more. Rationale: it's not too much, and you can delegate DNS on /24 boundaries without ugly tricks. When the Sub-Allocation is used up (= 80% of the space in there is ASSIGNED), the Sub-LIR can ask for more. If a customer asks for more space than the Sub-LIR has left, the Sub-Allocation can also be increased / a new Sub-Allocation be made. - "What's the size of networks a Sub-LIR can assign to their customers"? It can not go over the AW of the LIR. This part is fixed due to the RIR/LIR relation. As for the rest, I propose that this should be a matter between the LIR and the Sub-LIR. They have a contract, and it's the LIRs job to make sure that the Sub-LIR follows the official policies and procedures, maybe introducing their own Sub-AW per Sub-LIR etc. --------- snip ---------- -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 74810 (74196) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299