Question Regarding Behaviour Of German Top Level Registry
I'm currently in the process of transfering the Web Server of a German Company called FMFmedia to Austria. There is already a domain deligated to the this Company (fmfmedia.de), with the NameServers pointing to:
fmfmedia.de nameserver = ns.nordwest.pop.de fmfmedia.de nameserver = ns.space.net fmfmedia.de nameserver = ecrc.de
I asked the Top-Level Reg. for Germany the DE-NIC to change this so the name-server would point to:
fmfmedia.de nameserver = server.net4you.co.at fmfmedia.de nameserver = bkk.bkkallincl.co.at .
They said YES of course, but you have to pay 550 DM (about US$ 390) a year for MAINTENANCE of this Name-Server Records. When we pointed out, that we are ourselves a member of RIPE and would do any maintenance ourselfs, they simply refused to acknowledge this and insisted on the payment. Maintenance in DE-NICs eyes is (quoted and translated from German):
... the update of Name-Server Entries, change of Glue-A-RRs, register and maintain the domain in the RIPE-Database and more....
I do not doubt, that Name-Server Entries (3 lines) and Glue-A-RRs (another 3 lines) are necessarily the duty (!) of a Top Level Domain. But I can't understand, why maintenance in the Ripe-DB must be done by the Top-Level, and what they will do, that is worth 390 Bucks a YEAR ! Keeping (!) 6 lines in ones Name-Server file must be a realy big task ! The InterNIC charges 50 US$ a year for handling domains and they have much more work to do. I understand from my time on the Net (about 5 Years now) that RFCs are the rules of the net. RFC1591 Domain Name System Structure and Delegation states:
..These administrators are performing a public service on behalf of the Internet community. and These designated authorities are trustees for the delegated domain, and have a duty to serve the community. and (my favorite lines) Concerns about "rights" and "ownership" of domains are inappropriate. It is appropriate to be concerned about "responsibilities" and "service" to the community.
I can't see DE-NIC in there ! I don't expect DE-NIC to be free of any charge, since there IS work to do and a host and hostmaster to be paid for, but DE-NIC tries to make a quick buck out of the internet boom. Am I making sense ? Someone outthere shares this view ? Please don't hesitate to applaud, flame or ignore this Mail. Regards from a confused and angry netmaster Max Gutberlet -- ~\\|//~ -(o o)- +--------------------oOOOo--(_)--oOOOo---------------------+ | _ _ _ | | _ __ ___| |_| || | _ _ ___ _ _ | | | '_ \ / _ \ __| || |_| | | |/ _ \| | | | | | | | | | __/ |_|__ _| |_| | (_) | |_| | | | |_| |_|\___|\__| |_| \__, |\___/ \__,_| | | |___/ | | http://www.net4you.co.at/ | +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Max Gutberlet Address: NET4YOU | | NetMaster Net4You Ringmauergasse 8| | Tel.: +43-4242-257367 A-9500 Villach | | Fax.: +43-4242-257368 Carinthia | | email: M.Gutberlet@net4you.co.a Austria | +----------------------------------------------------------+
Max Gutberlet wrote:
I'm currently in the process of transfering the Web Server of a German Company called FMFmedia to Austria. There is already a domain deligated to the this Company (fmfmedia.de), with the NameServers pointing to:
[ ... some lines deleted ... ]
I don't expect DE-NIC to be free of any charge, since there IS work to do and a host and hostmaster to be paid for, but DE-NIC tries to make a quick buck out of the internet boom.
Hit the right people! DE-NIC located at University of Karlsruhe is acting behalf of IV-DENIC which is a consortia of eight german ISP, namely de.dfn de.ecrc de.eunet de.gtn de.maz de.nacamar de.xlink and PAN AMP GmbH which is not yet registered as RIPE contributor DE-NIC is run by University of Karlsruhe as a three-year contract. DE-NIC acts as maintainer of the toplevel domain DE and still runs the last resort registry. Until Aug, 31th services were payed by the IV-DENIC and registration of a secondlevel domain had to come via an IV-DENIC member. Since Sep, 1st everyone can use services from DE-NIC on a cost basis calculated on figures for running the DE-NIC in 1995 and agreed upon by all IV-DENIC members. Arnold Nipper
Am I making sense ? Someone outthere shares this view ?
Please don't hesitate to applaud, flame or ignore this Mail.
Regards from a confused and angry netmaster
Max Gutberlet
-- ~\\|//~ -(o o)- +--------------------oOOOo--(_)--oOOOo---------------------+ | _ _ _ | | _ __ ___| |_| || | _ _ ___ _ _ | | | '_ \ / _ \ __| || |_| | | |/ _ \| | | | | | | | | | __/ |_|__ _| |_| | (_) | |_| | | | |_| |_|\___|\__| |_| \__, |\___/ \__,_| | | |___/ | | http://www.net4you.co.at/ | +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Max Gutberlet Address: NET4YOU | | NetMaster Net4You Ringmauergasse 8| | Tel.: +43-4242-257367 A-9500 Villach | | Fax.: +43-4242-257368 Carinthia | | email: M.Gutberlet@net4you.co.a Austria | +----------------------------------------------------------+
-- Arnold Nipper / email: nipper@xlink.net NTG Netzwerk und Telematic GmbH \/ phone: +49 721 9652 0 Geschaeftsbereich Xlink /\ LINK fax: +49 721 9652 210 Vincenz-Priessnitz-Str. 3 /_______ finger @whois.xlink.net D-76131 Karlsruhe, Germany http://www.xlink.net/~nipper
Dear Mr. Max Gutberlet, you write:
I'm currently in the process of transfering the Web Server of a German Company called FMFmedia to Austria. There is already a domain deligated to the this Company (fmfmedia.de), with the NameServers pointing to:
fmfmedia.de nameserver = ns.nordwest.pop.de fmfmedia.de nameserver = ns.space.net fmfmedia.de nameserver = ecrc.de
I asked the Top-Level Reg. for Germany the DE-NIC to change this so the name-server would point to:
fmfmedia.de nameserver = server.net4you.co.at fmfmedia.de nameserver = bkk.bkkallincl.co.at .
They said YES of course, but you have to pay 550 DM (about US$ 390) a year for MAINTENANCE of this Name-Server Records.
When we pointed out, that we are ourselves a member of RIPE and would do any maintenance ourselfs, they simply refused to acknowledge this and insisted on the payment.
Maintenance in DE-NICs eyes is (quoted and translated from German):
... the update of Name-Server Entries, change of Glue-A-RRs, register and maintain the domain in the RIPE-Database and more....
I do not doubt, that Name-Server Entries (3 lines) and Glue-A-RRs (another 3 lines) are necessarily the duty (!) of a Top Level Domain. But I can't understand, why maintenance in the Ripe-DB must be done by the Top-Level, and what they will do, that is worth 390 Bucks a YEAR ! Keeping (!) 6 lines in ones Name-Server file must be a realy big task !
The InterNIC charges 50 US$ a year for handling domains and they have much more work to do.
The InterNIC handles domains without the checks and maintenance that is common practice of the majority of European NICs, whether they apply fees to recover their costs or not.
I understand from my time on the Net (about 5 Years now) that RFCs are the rules of the net. RFC1591 Domain Name System Structure and Delegation states:
..These administrators are performing a public service on behalf of the Internet community. and These designated authorities are trustees for the delegated domain, and have a duty to serve the community. and (my favorite lines) Concerns about "rights" and "ownership" of domains are inappropriate. It is appropriate to be concerned about "responsibilities" and "service" to the community.
I can't see DE-NIC in there !
Service may be free of charge or not. This has been intentionally left out of RFC1591. It is up to the TLD administrator to decide such a delicate matter. This is usually done with the consensus of national ISPs. I know this is the case of DE-NIC.
I don't expect DE-NIC to be free of any charge, since there IS work to do and a host and hostmaster to be paid for, but DE-NIC tries to make a quick buck out of the internet boom.
Am I making sense ? Someone outthere shares this view ?
Please don't hesitate to applaud, flame or ignore this Mail.
Regards from a confused and angry netmaster
Max Gutberlet
-- ~\\|//~ -(o o)- +--------------------oOOOo--(_)--oOOOo---------------------+ | _ _ _ | | _ __ ___| |_| || | _ _ ___ _ _ | | | '_ \ / _ \ __| || |_| | | |/ _ \| | | | | | | | | | __/ |_|__ _| |_| | (_) | |_| | | | |_| |_|\___|\__| |_| \__, |\___/ \__,_| | | |___/ | | http://www.net4you.co.at/ | +----------------------------------------------------------+ | Max Gutberlet Address: NET4YOU | | NetMaster Net4You Ringmauergasse 8| | Tel.: +43-4242-257367 A-9500 Villach | | Fax.: +43-4242-257368 Carinthia | | email: M.Gutberlet@net4you.co.a Austria | +----------------------------------------------------------+
Best Regards ---------- ---------- Antonio_Blasco Bonito E-Mail: bonito@nis.garr.it GARR - Network Information Service c=it;a=garr;p=garr;o=nis;s=bonito c/o CNUCE - Istituto del CNR Tel: +39 50 593246 Via S. Maria, 36 Fax: +39 50 904052 I-56126 PISA Telex: 500371 CNUCE I Italy Url: http://www.nis.garr.it/nis/staff/bonito.html ---------- ----------
participants (3)
-
Antonio_Blasco Bonito -
Arnold Nipper -
Max Gutberlet