Hi I am formaly asking that if not RIPE 43 then all future meetings will be webcast so that all memebers who want to attend can attend the meeting. Otherwise this is by no means an equal opportunity meeing to attend and is only open to those who can get their expenses justified for holiday destinations with the express intention of going to the meeting, which lets face it in the current climate is nigh impossible. Its not that i do not appreciate the venues or that the meetings are not the place to go, its just getting harder to get to them. I wish to see a broader section of the community contributing to the RIPE process which is unique and a fine foundation for the RIPE community to come together, its just that the coming together is much harder for most now. Otherwise the only views expressed and heard are those of the people who can attend physicaly which is not the majority so limiting the scope and participation of the community at large. Regards, Stephen Burley WorldCom EMEA Hostmaster SB855-RIPE
Hi all, I'd like to lend my support to this proposal. At it's simplest this is a few people with a few web cams and a bit of multicast support from a couple of networks. I'm fairly sure I can get some support from the multicast people on our network. Any one definately going that has a webcam and would be prepared to run a trial? I'll offer what help I can. I admit to knowing little about webcam software but I can route packets ;-) Matthew
Hi I am formaly asking that if not RIPE 43 then all future meetings will be webcast so that all memebers who want to attend can attend the meeting. Otherwise this is by no means an equal opportunity meeing to attend and is only open to those who can get their expenses justified for holiday destinations with the express intention of going to the meeting, which lets face it in the current climate is nigh impossible. Its not that i do not appreciate the venues or that the meetings are not the place to go, its just getting harder to get to them. I wish to see a broader section of the community contributing to the RIPE process which is unique and a fine foundation for the RIPE community to come together, its just that the coming together is much harder for most now. Otherwise the only views expressed and heard are those of the people who can attend physicaly which is not the majority so limiting the scope and participation of the community at large.
Regards,
Stephen Burley WorldCom EMEA Hostmaster SB855-RIPE
Hi, I do also second Stephen's proposal, it's a good idea. On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 12:34:57PM +0100, Matthew J Robinson wrote:
I'd like to lend my support to this proposal. At it's simplest this is a few people with a few web cams and a bit of multicast support from a couple of networks. I'm fairly sure I can get some support from the multicast people on our network.
Any one definately going that has a webcam and would be prepared to run a trial? I'll offer what help I can. I admit to knowing little about webcam software but I can route packets ;-)
... on the other hand, I tried this last meeting in Amsterdam, and "just any Webcam" won't buy it. The video quality was very poor, and I did not have any audio. I have a new web cam now, which has better video at about 100 kbit, but for recognizable audio, one would need good microphone equipment, or maybe (much better) a way to tap into the conference room's audio system. Most likely we'll have to do the routing over a tunnel into someone's home network, and distribute the multicast from there, as the RIPE network didn't have multicast routing enabled on the last few meetings. (The interesting question is "how many listeners do have multicast?" - maybe we need to do RealAudio instead). Also, bandwidth might be a problem as the link is usually already saturated without video going on... I'd be willing to participate in the experiments, though. Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 46631 (46284) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299
Hi gents, I'm sure I could distribute the RIPE video from our AS. We are at AMS-IX and generally have fine connectivity to the RIPE-NCC networks. This is a good proposal/idea and I would like to support it from the IP point of view. I agree with Gert that a realvideo stream might be better. I myself would be interrested in the (foreign) meetings which I do not attend, but am quite clueless with the (multicast && unix) combo. In principal, the meetings should be able to be sent into the Internet if somebody takes some hardware along with them. groet, Pim On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 11:06:07PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote: | Hi, | | I do also second Stephen's proposal, it's a good idea. | | On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 12:34:57PM +0100, Matthew J Robinson wrote: | > I'd like to lend my support to this proposal. At it's simplest this is a few | > people with a few web cams and a bit of multicast support from a couple of | > networks. I'm fairly sure I can get some support from the multicast people on | > our network. | > | > Any one definately going that has a webcam and would be prepared to run a | > trial? I'll offer what help I can. I admit to knowing little about webcam | > software but I can route packets ;-) | | ... on the other hand, I tried this last meeting in Amsterdam, and "just | any Webcam" won't buy it. The video quality was very poor, and I did not | have any audio. | | I have a new web cam now, which has better video at about 100 kbit, but | for recognizable audio, one would need good microphone equipment, or | maybe (much better) a way to tap into the conference room's audio system. | | Most likely we'll have to do the routing over a tunnel into someone's | home network, and distribute the multicast from there, as the RIPE network | didn't have multicast routing enabled on the last few meetings. (The | interesting question is "how many listeners do have multicast?" - maybe | we need to do RealAudio instead). | | Also, bandwidth might be a problem as the link is usually already | saturated without video going on... | | I'd be willing to participate in the experiments, though. | | Gert Doering | -- NetMaster | -- | Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 46631 (46284) | | SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net | Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 | 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 -- __________________ Met vriendelijke groet, /\ ___/ Pim van Pelt /- \ _/ Business Internet Trends BV PBVP1-RIPE /--- \/ __________________
Although I generally think it's a good idea, I am also sharing Gerts concerns about the bandwidth...I am not completly convinced that I would like to sacrify meeting bandwidth for the streaming... - kurtis - --On Monday, August 05, 2002 23:26:24 +0200 Pim van Pelt <pim@bit.nl> wrote:
Hi gents,
I'm sure I could distribute the RIPE video from our AS. We are at AMS-IX and generally have fine connectivity to the RIPE-NCC networks.
This is a good proposal/idea and I would like to support it from the IP point of view.
I agree with Gert that a realvideo stream might be better. I myself would be interrested in the (foreign) meetings which I do not attend, but am quite clueless with the (multicast && unix) combo.
In principal, the meetings should be able to be sent into the Internet if somebody takes some hardware along with them.
groet, Pim
On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 11:06:07PM +0200, Gert Doering wrote: | Hi, | | I do also second Stephen's proposal, it's a good idea. | | On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 12:34:57PM +0100, Matthew J Robinson wrote: | > I'd like to lend my support to this proposal. At it's simplest this | > is a few people with a few web cams and a bit of multicast support | > from a couple of networks. I'm fairly sure I can get some support | > from the multicast people on our network. | > | > Any one definately going that has a webcam and would be prepared to | > run a trial? I'll offer what help I can. I admit to knowing little | > about webcam software but I can route packets ;-) | | ... on the other hand, I tried this last meeting in Amsterdam, and "just | any Webcam" won't buy it. The video quality was very poor, and I did not | have any audio. | | I have a new web cam now, which has better video at about 100 kbit, but | for recognizable audio, one would need good microphone equipment, or | maybe (much better) a way to tap into the conference room's audio system. | | Most likely we'll have to do the routing over a tunnel into someone's | home network, and distribute the multicast from there, as the RIPE | network didn't have multicast routing enabled on the last few meetings. | (The interesting question is "how many listeners do have multicast?" - | maybe we need to do RealAudio instead). | | Also, bandwidth might be a problem as the link is usually already | saturated without video going on... | | I'd be willing to participate in the experiments, though. | | Gert Doering | -- NetMaster | -- | Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 46631 | (46284) | | SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net | Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 | 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299
-- __________________ Met vriendelijke groet, /\ ___/ Pim van Pelt /- \ _/ Business Internet Trends BV PBVP1-RIPE /--- \/ __________________
I am formaly asking that if not RIPE 43 then all future meetings will be webcast so that all memebers who want to attend can attend the meeting.
FWIW, HEAnet organised video streaming of the TERENA Networking Conference held in Limerick last June, an event of perhaps roughly the same size and complexity as RIPE. We got a *lot* of positive feedback, and it was especially useful for those who were hit by the concurrent airline strike and sudden news of KPNQwest's demise. However, I can assert that it was quite a lot of work, between preparing the hardware and overseeing each session, to do it properly. I think it would be a very good thing to see RIPE meetings webcast in the same way, but do please be aware that it soaks up more FTEs than is at first apparent. (If anyone at the RIPE NCC would like to talk to our guys about it, please drop me a mail). Dave
Hi Stephen, One way participation of a single meeting, i.e. a webcast, is "relatively" easy to do in this day and age. I'm presently building a kit for this under the guidance of the UofO folks who do the IETF's and NANOG. The equipment, though not cheap, is an investment that is IMHO well worth while if you intend To broadcast multiple meetings. The UofO folks also broadcast our last two meetings. They are extremely helpful folks and I'm sure would be willing to help with such a project if the NCC folks requested. Go to http://www.icann.org/bucharest for links to the stored archives if you want to see a sample. The difficulty for the RIPE meetings would be to have the the multiple meetings up at the same time, more gear and more staff. Two way participation is slightly more complicated. IRC, works but needs staffing to queue the questions. My experience from what I've seen is that 99% of the traffic is irrelevant to the topic. An Email addess is less interactive, still needs queueing but attracts less noise. There may be many other solutions. All of them will of course take resources to work during the meeting. It may be interesting to try broadcasting lir-wg and plenary as a test Case with a simple irc or mail interface for questions at the next Amsterdam meeting? Anyway I hereby offer my assistance along with those other offers. _________________________________________ John Crain Manager of Technical Operations ICANN crain@icann.org 1AF4 F638 4B2D 3EF2 F9BA 99E4 8D85 69A7 _________________________________________
-----Original Message----- From: owner-lir-wg@ripe.net [mailto:owner-lir-wg@ripe.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Burley Sent: Monday, August 05, 2002 4:19 AM To: Lir-Wg@Ripe.Net Subject: [lir-wg] Webcasting Meetings
Hi I am formaly asking that if not RIPE 43 then all future meetings will be webcast so that all memebers who want to attend can attend the meeting. Otherwise this is by no means an equal opportunity meeing to attend and is only open to those who can get their expenses justified for holiday destinations with the express intention of going to the meeting, which lets face it in the current climate is nigh impossible. Its not that i do not appreciate the venues or that the meetings are not the place to go, its just getting harder to get to them. I wish to see a broader section of the community contributing to the RIPE process which is unique and a fine foundation for the RIPE community to come together, its just that the coming together is much harder for most now. Otherwise the only views expressed and heard are those of the people who can attend physicaly which is not the majority so limiting the scope and participation of the community at large.
Regards,
Stephen Burley WorldCom EMEA Hostmaster SB855-RIPE
Stephen, as you know a few years ago RIPE meetings were broadcast over the Mbone. Then it was decided to stop doing it because the observed attendency was really low. I am more than willing to restart broadcasting and add remote participation with what is available today. As a matter of fact there is a provision in the RIPE NCC's 2003 budget proposal to acquire this sort of equipment and we will be getting familiar with the hw and sw during the next couple of months. We already approached the people who do session broadcast for NANOG at the last NANOG. For a definitive response on whether we actually get to do this at the RIPE meetings however, the RIPE chair (Rob) has the last word. Cheers, Joao At 12:19 +0100 5/8/02, Stephen Burley wrote:
Hi I am formaly asking that if not RIPE 43 then all future meetings will be webcast so that all memebers who want to attend can attend the meeting. Otherwise this is by no means an equal opportunity meeing to attend and is only open to those who can get their expenses justified for holiday destinations with the express intention of going to the meeting, which lets face it in the current climate is nigh impossible. Its not that i do not appreciate the venues or that the meetings are not the place to go, its just getting harder to get to them. I wish to see a broader section of the community contributing to the RIPE process which is unique and a fine foundation for the RIPE community to come together, its just that the coming together is much harder for most now. Otherwise the only views expressed and heard are those of the people who can attend physicaly which is not the majority so limiting the scope and participation of the community at large.
Regards,
Stephen Burley WorldCom EMEA Hostmaster SB855-RIPE
For a definitive response on whether we actually get to do this at the RIPE meetings however, the RIPE chair (Rob) has the last word.
Since it is our money and our community why does one person hold the keys on this desicion?
Stephen Burley WorldCom EMEA Hostmaster SB855-RIPE
Hi all, Sounds like we need a 'trial run' this time round. Maybe just broadcast a single session to 'see if it works'. I'm quite keen to promote multicast for this - mainly due to fact we had a multicast working group and we should promote it's use! Maybe we can take the multicast stream and plumb it into a realmedia server? If someone goes and takes a webcam let's try it out. Maybe a BoF is called for to get some interest. If a few people watch this time, We can get a better solution in for next time round. I'm trying not to get too caught up in the money/technical side. Let's have some fun - like we used to in the 'good old days'! Kind regards Matthew
For a definitive response on whether we actually get to do this at the RIPE meetings however, the RIPE chair (Rob) has the last word.
Since it is our money and our community why does one person hold the keys on this desicion?
Stephen Burley WorldCom EMEA Hostmaster SB855-RIPE
Hi, On Wed, Aug 07, 2002 at 02:40:22PM +0100, Matthew J Robinson wrote:
Sounds like we need a 'trial run' this time round. Maybe just broadcast a single session to 'see if it works'. I'm quite keen to promote multicast for this - mainly due to fact we had a multicast working group and we should promote it's use! Maybe we can take the multicast stream and plumb it into a realmedia server?
It can work the other way round (you send an unicast stream to the RealServer, and it will optionally send it out as multicast). Gert Doering -- NetMaster -- Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations: 46631 (46284) SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299
For a definitive response on whether we actually get to do this at the RIPE meetings however, the RIPE chair (Rob) has the last word. Since it is our money and our community why does one person hold the keys on this desicion?
because we have strange things called "management structures."
For a definitive response on whether we actually get to do this at the RIPE meetings however, the RIPE chair (Rob) has the last word. Since it is our money and our community why does one person hold the keys on this desicion?
because we have strange things called "management structures."
Not in the RIPE community, the managment run the NCC (within the RIPE communities guide lines) not the RIPE community, they do NOT control what happens within the community structure.
sadly, we funny monkeys have not figured out how to successfully run an organization the size of the ripe ncc as an anarchic commune. hence we have hiyou don'terarchic management structures. i don't think i would be very comfortable betting my network on having the ncc conducting "management research" on how to run. randy
Randy RIPE NCC != the RIPE Community but you know that right - because you are a travelled civilised American. And one person making the decisions is not a management structure unless you can feed data into it and review its outcomes. The RIPE meetings are for the community to meet - they are organised by the NCC as part of its service remit but the community drives the process. Stephen's point is valid as a general point ie meeting venue and date choices as recent examples, there is no way that I am aware of to send formal feedback into the system for meeting management other than through WG chairs. f At 7:21 am -0700 8/8/02, Randy Bush wrote:
sadly, we funny monkeys have not figured out how to successfully run an organization the size of the ripe ncc as an anarchic commune. hence we have hiyou don'terarchic management structures. i don't think i would be very comfortable betting my network on having the ncc conducting "management research" on how to run.
randy
Very interesting it depends on the interpretation. Someone got to provide a definition Stephen Burley wrote:
For a definitive response on whether we actually get to do this at the RIPE meetings however, the RIPE chair (Rob) has the last word. Since it is our money and our community why does one person hold the keys on this desicion?
because we have strange things called "management structures."
Not in the RIPE community, the managment run the NCC (within the RIPE communities guide lines) not the RIPE community, they do NOT control what happens within the community structure.
participants (11)
-
Dave Wilson -
Fearghas McKay -
Gert Doering -
Joao Luis Silva Damas -
John Crain -
Kurt Erik Lindqvist -
Matthew J Robinson -
Pim van Pelt -
Randy Bush -
Stephen Burley -
Wycliffe Bahati