On Fri, 20 Feb 1998, Sergey A. Mukhin wrote:
of LIRs in the fSU countries and it might make sense for RIPE itself to establish its office or RIR for those who agree A> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A> "Office" -- no problem, but not "RIR"! How can RIPE A> establish a RIR without an agreement in the community A> of the region served? RIR creation should be A> initiated by the representative community, not RIPE, A> or am I missing something?
Quite right. The community does exist ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Would you mind providing a proof of validity for this statement?
[... region definition ...]
I would add: regions from fSU countries and to put it frankly do not see why you do not like such a definition.
I don't like the definition above because we live today, looking for tomorrow, and "fSU" is the term from yesterday ("historical"). Who cares today about yesteday' mess?
A> Ok, but who was present but Russia and Ukraine? A> Russia was "pro", Ukraine was "contra". A> 1:1
It was not necessary to present there physically. The voting system ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What a nice news! ;) If say I wasn't present there physically, what the Decision' text could look like? Note: the text of the projected Decision of Moscow meeting wasn't published electronicaly and open for discussion!
was not Soviet-like. Everybody concerned was noticed and if they sent no votes "contra", they are "pro". I have no precise data -- let us ask people who keep those things running. Besides, if I get things right LIRs were counted, not countries.
Neither you nor me didn't get things right, because the documents (both ripe-167 and the Decision) are *very* unclear at this point and who knows where truth might be?
A> ripe-167 is way too unclear for everyone to get its A> main ideas in a moment.
Well, it was available for far more time than a moment.
... and nobody cared starting polishing it until Moscow meeting. And nobody even cared to translate it to Russian so far.
A> I'm afraid that ripe-167 is just very unclear and uncertain A> at this point.
Maybe. For that case there are its authors able to clarify details.
I'd like to see *the* document which is independent of any personalities (who may or may not change their opinions in time) and spoken opinions. [...]
If you suppose uniting of everybody but us,
*You* said this; I didn't.
that sounds a bit odd, does not it?
[...]
I am afraid I would never understand such a point of view. We declare free choice for all.
A> Would you mind pointing me at the written document where A> one can get a clear and certain statement of this?
Alas, I can not. Hope somebody else can.clarify that matter.
Ghmm.
I meant just the following effect of the Soviet Union: 6 years are not enough for a new generation who knows English rather than Russia; not enough to get old communications completely changed.
A> Please leave alone this old crap about English/Russian A> language. If you are a LIR (and RIR serves LIRs) you A> ought to know English, point. If you don't know A> English, you are the customer of a LIR where staff A> is more knowlegeable.
A> Agreed?
No. Ideally everybody which has an Internet connectivity should know English.
*This* statement of yours is plain wrong. Getting connected doesn't nessesary mean one should go learn English;
You ( or I ) may say, `ought' as many times as we'd like -- and nothing will change.
... but those who serves people' connections *must* know English otherwise how can they perform their job? Please don't mix customer and provider, also LIR isn't just average provider; it's the next level of skills and experience, in general.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergey A. Mukhin | violet@rosnet.net Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Best regards, Andrew Stesin nic-hdl: ST73-RIPE