Dear all, I find it useful that you bring this up Hans-Petter. I will not try to provide any replies or solutions at this point in the discussion as I am interested in the input from our members (and others in the community). However, what I can say is that we at the RIPE NCC are very aware of how complicated it is for new LIRs to learn all policies and procedures involved in obtaining IP address space and AS numbers. (And indeed there are quite a few.) We invest a enormous amount of resources in educating these people, correcting them, explaining policies, justifying procedures, referring to documentation etc etc. In fact, this is where you see the bulk of our workload. Although it has always been seen as part of the hostmaster role to educate the LIRs, it is not an easy task with the current dramatic growth of LIRs. We have partly discussed this with the May 17 Taskforce and we are also constantly discussing it internally at the RIPE NCC, trying to find more efficient ways of coping with the workload and the growth. But this if of course only one aspect/consequence of the problem. If the perception is as you describe, then there is a more serious problem and we need to look at other solutions. This may be a PR problem. It is also possible that the policies simply have become too complicated for new members. (Can it be that the policies which are developed by experienced and clueful members of the Internet community is not necessarily easy for newer, less experienced LIRs?) Is the problem possibly a combination of the two? I am very interested in how this is perceived in the membership before trying to give my analysis. Let's first try to define the problem and then continue discussing possible solutions. Kind regards, -- Nurani Nimpuno Registration Services Manager RIPE NCC http://www.ripe.net "Gert Doering, Netmaster" <netmaster@space.net> writes: * Hi, * * On Tue, Feb 13, 2001 at 11:27:54AM +0100, Hans Petter Holen wrote: * > personally I think that we have a serious PR problem here: is it so that t * he * > rules and regulations have become so strict and complicated that we, the * > lirs, tell our customers that this is very difficult and you should realy * > use private addresses, rather than explaining how the procedures and * > policies realy work ? * * that "they are urged to force NAT on their customers, as much as possible". * * This is not how I understood policy ("always consider NAT, but the decision * is the customer's - and everybody can get as much addresses as they can * show their need for"), so maybe the current policy isn't documented clearly * enough... * * Gert Doering * -- NetMaster * -- * SpaceNet AG Mail: netmaster@Space.Net * Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Tel : +49-89-32356-0 * 80807 Muenchen Fax : +49-89-32356-299 * * *