- lir-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Re: Payment for ru.glasnet overdue 46 days!
by Alexander Zaytsev 25 Sep '95

25 Sep '95

Dear Roderik, i'm very sorry for the delay though i ain;t even sure if we got any bill from you :-(. did you fax it or send over a regular (snail) mail? in the latter case it may take *monthes* to get delivered. yes, post services in the country work very slow. anyway, i'll ask our bookkeepers and billing group if they received any letters from you. please, gime a couple of days to figure out where the problem might be. sincerely, alexz glasnet technical admin billing(a)ripe.net writes: > >Dear Local Registry Contact, > >On 10.07.95 we sent you an invoice with reference number U95345 >for ECU 3000. This invoice was due 10.08.95, 46 days ago. >According to our records, we have not yet received any payment for >this invoice. > >Should you have paid this invoice already, please disregard the rest of >this message but let us know as soon as possible, preferably with further >details on payment mode and dates, so we can check for receipt of the >invoice. > >The 1995 RIPE NCC billing procedure specifies: > > 8. Late payments will be subject to an late payment charges of ECU 100.- > and cause an immediate reduction in NCC service level. > Interest according to the prevailing bank rate in the Netherlands > may be charged on any late payments. > >If your payment has not been received within the coming 14 days, we will >unfortunately have to change the service level of your local registry >'ru.glasnet' to 'time-permitting' and charge you the additional ECU 100.-. >If your payment is substantially delayed any further, we will have to >charge you interest. > >Attached below you will find an explanation of the RIPE NCC service >levels. > >If you have any further questions about the formal arrangements and >billing, please do not hesitate to contact <billing(a)ripe.net>. >For questions about this particular message you may also contact >the NCC manager Daniel Karrenberg by telephone on +31 20 592 5065. >All technical and registry questions are handled by <hostmaster(a)ripe.net>. > >Kind regards > >Roderik Muit >RIPE NCC Billing Department > >--------- > >Your Local Internet Registry appears in the list of European Local >Internet Registries with the following particulars: > >regid: ru.glasnet >org: GLASNET Computer Network Users Assoc. >type: PROVIDER >community: >address: APKS GLASNET >address: Sadovaya-Chernogryazskaya ul. 4-16a >address: 107078 Moscow >address: Russia >country: RU >admin-c: Alexander Zaytsev >tech-c: Pavel Prokopenko >phone: +7 095 262 7079 >fax-no: +7 095 207 0889 >e-mail: alexz(a)glas.apc.org >remark: >lst-localir: local-ir-list(a)glas.apc.org >lst-provs: >lst-contrib: >bill-addr: APKS GLASNET >bill-addr: Sadovaya-Chernogryazskaya ul. 4-16a >bill-addr: 107078 Moscow >bill-addr: Russia >bill-mail: billing(a)glas.apc.org >bill-ref: >bill-vatno: >bill-proto: SNAIL-MAIL >bill-categ: SMALL >bill-scheme: YEARLY >bill-remark: >reg-ack: > > > >--------- > > >NCC Service Levels >------------------ > >Since February 1st 1995 the RIPE NCC processes requests from >contributing registries before those from non-contributing registries >and individuals. In other words: Requests from contributing registries >receive "normal service" and all others are served "time permitting". >This step has been taken to ensure that those contributing to the costs >of the service are not suffering from the load generated by those that >do not contribute. > >Requests receiving "normal service" will be processed in the order of >receipt of the request at the NCC as usual. We aim to reply to these >requests as quickly as possible. > >Requests receiving "time permitting" service will be processed only when >there are no outstanding "normal service" requests and other NCC core >activities permit. The NCC may also interrupt processing of a "time >permitting" request should a new "normal service" request arrive. > >Registries which have not yet committed to contribute to the funding of >the NCC should consult the information in > > ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ > >and consider to commit support. The RIPE NCC will post the >relevant documents by electronic or surface mail on request. > >Individuals should consider to submit their request through a >contributing registry. A list of all registries can be found in > > ftp::/ftp.ripe.net/ripe/registries/ > >Please note the current service level of the registries concerned. If >you do not have access to this information via the Internet, the NCC >will provide a list of registries in a given country upon request. > >We ask your understanding for the necessity of the above procedure >and apologise for any inconvenience this may cause.

1 0

Re: RIPE NCC Fees for 1996
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 22 Sep '95

22 Sep '95

Hi Peter! >Can I suggest using either the number of name registration processed ( or >the number of routes registered in the RIPE registry ) in the 3 months up >to 30th Nov 1995. I don't see the direct relevance or usefulness of either of these metrics, because there is no (or not necessarily a) relationship between the structure of the name-space and the Local-IR activity or even the routing announcements. Of course there is some relation in the case of some commercial ISPs which register their customers within their own domain. More or less the same is true, I think, for the routing announcements, although I'd agree that this usually shows a higher degree of congruence. And it would add incentives for CIDRization, wouldn't it!? Completely off track? Cheers, Wilfried. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilfried Woeber : e-mail: Woeber(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at Computer Center - ACOnet : Vienna University : Tel: +43 1 4065822 355 Universitaetsstrasse 7 : Fax: +43 1 4065822 170 A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : NIC: WW144 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 0

RIPE NCC Fees for 1996
by Daniel Karrenberg 22 Sep '95

22 Sep '95

Dear colleagues, as circulated earlier contributors committee has set the charging scheme and fee structure for 1996. The notable changes are - a reduction of at least 25% to the yearly fees for service provider registries. - the introduction of a new category 'Supernational' geared towards ISPs operating in multiple countries - the termination of 'time-permitting' service. In 1996 the NCC will process *only* requests from registries in good standing - the discontinuation of the fee waver for last-resort registries. These will have to contribute like any other registry. The 'RIPE NCC BILLING PROCEDURE and FEE SCHEDULE' has been adapted to this. You will find a copy enclosed in this message. Please note the following: - We will invoice registries with existing agreements in November. These invoices will be due December 31st. - Please notify <billing(a)ripe.net> as soon as possible if - you want to change your category in 1996, - you want to change your billing arrangements - you want to use the special arrangement to pay in January. - In case you would like to terminate the NCC service agreement, you will have to do so by October 1st. - In case you are a 'Last Resort' registry please contact us about charges in 1996. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Regards Daniel Karrenberg RIPE NCC Manager 1996 RIPE NCC BILLING PROCEDURE and FEE SCHEDULE 1. The 1996 fee schedule is as follows: Enterprise registries: ECU 1000.- / year Service Provider Registries Small ECU 1500.- / year Medium ECU 4500.- / year Large ECU 8500.- / year Supernational multiples of ECU 8500.- / year If you intend to set up a 'Supernational' registry or you are not sure which category applies, please contact <billing(a)ripe.net>. Start-up fee for registries established during 1996 ECU 2000.- 2. Registries established during the course of the year are charged as follows: established during charge 1st quarter start-up fee + full yearly fee 2nd quarter start-up fee + 3/4 yearly fee 3rd quarter start-up fee + 1/2 yearly fee 4th quarter start-up fee + 1/4 yearly fee 3. The start-up fee is due with the first invoice. 4. Billing is in advance. 5. The billing period is the calendar year. 6. By prior special arrangement half-yearly and quarterly billing is possible under the following conditions: - The minimum amount invoiced is ECU 750.-. - An ECU 65.- service charge applies to each invoice. 7. Bills are due on the last day of the month preceding the billing period or 30 days after issuing of the invoice, whichever is later. 8. Late payments will be subject to an late payment charges of ECU 100.- and cause an immediate reduction in NCC service level. Interest according to the prevailing bank rate in the Netherlands may be charged on any late payments. 9. By prior special arrangement invoiced amounts due on December 31st may be received by January 21st without incurring late payment charges or service level reduction.

2 2

Stop 'time permitting' service now?
by Daniel Karrenberg 21 Sep '95

21 Sep '95

Dear ccontributors, you have decided to discontinue the 'time-permtting' service which the NCC currently provides to - individuals - registries who do not sign the service agreement - registries which have overdue invoices The queue for 'time-permtting' requests is currently longer than 330 and is not being processed because of the backlog we have processing normal requests. I do not forsee that we will be able to process a substantial amount of the queued requests this year, let alone empty the queue. This has two serious problems: - Requestors get the wrong impression that they will eventually receive service. - Keeping the 'time-permtting' queue and answering queries about requests in it costs resources. I therefore suggest that we discontinue 'time-permtting' service per October 1st. The submitters of requests remaining in the queue and of any new requests not from a registry in good standing will then be refered to the list of existing registries. In case I do not hear serious disagreement before that October 1st, I assume you agree. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Regards Daniel Karrenberg RIPE NCC Manager

1 0

NCC Developments
by Daniel Karrenberg 21 Sep '95

21 Sep '95

Dear colleague, I would like to inform you about some recent developments at te NCC. Request Tracking and Ticketing We are now implementing another phase of the RIPE NCC request tracking system in order to cope better with the ever increasing numebr of requests. The only change directly visible to you will be that every message to hostmaster concerning a ticketised request will be acknowledged within 24 hours. Thus not only new reauests will be acknowledged but also messages concerning ongoing requests. We realise that this will produce mixed reactions ranging from "That is exactly what I wanted all the time" to "Please do not clutter my mailbox with superfluous acknowledgements". We have chosen to implement this now because of hard to trace problems when ticket numbers were inadvertently exchanged or multiple new requests were sent to us with a previous ticket attached. This change will also ensure that each message sent to <hostmaster(a)ripe.net> is read and assessed by a junior hosmaster within 24 hours. In the next pase of the request tracking system there will be possibilities to customise the acknowledgement process according to the preferences of individual registries. New Staff As already announced Nick Reid has joined the NCC staff as as a junior hostmaster on August 28th. Nick joins us from Leeds Metropolitan University. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact me. Regards Daniel Karrenberg RIPE NCC Manager

1 0

last-resort in Belgium, no more ....
by Stephan.Biesbroeck＠belnet.be 18 Sep '95

18 Sep '95

For your information : In april 1994, BELNET has taken over the last-resort registry function from the RIPE NCC. BELNET has fulfilled this task for free and has definitely invested resources into this task. As there are enough provider registries available, and as addresses should be aggregatable anyway, there is no real need for a Last Resort Registry in Belgium anymore. Therefor BELNET has decided, with consensus of the RIPE NCC, that it will stop its last-resort registry activities at the 1st of october 1995. If you think this announcement is of interest to a broader audience, then please redistribute this message. Regards, Stephan Biesbroeck P.S. BELNET will keep its provider registry activities going for the BELNET sites. ---- -- Stephan Biesbroeck Tel: +32(0)2-2383470 stephan(a)belnet.be Fax: +32(0)2-2311531 Service Support Team of the Belgian National Research Network, BELNET

1 0

Draft Minutes NCC Contributors Committee Sep1 1995
by Daniel Karrenberg 09 Sep '95

09 Sep '95

Dear colleagues, attached you find the draft minutes of last week's meeting. We have made them slightly more narrative than usual in order to give those who could not be present some insight in the decision making process and provide additional information not contained in the relevant documents. We have also tried to report the discussions in a logical order and under the agenda points where they belong. Comments are welcome, to me please as Mirjam is on vacation now. I have physically included only the ASCII version. You can download the PostScript, which is much nicer, automatically too if you have a MIME compliant mail reader. Otherwise you can find it at ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ncc-co/minutes-950901.ps Regards Daniel Karrenberg RIPE NCC Manager RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ Second Metting of the RIPE NCC Contributors Committee Draft Minutes The meeting was called by Steve Druck, TERENA vice president for services, and held on September 1st 1995 at the Hilton Hotel Schiphol Airport, Amster- dam, Netherlands. These minutes were prepared by Mirjam Kuehne of the RIPE NCC. Participants Bernward Averwald de.roka Jens Baedeker de.csl-gmbh Lajos Balint hu.hungarnet Stephan Biesbroeck be.belnet Antonio-Blasco Bonito it.garr Daniel David de.ipf Jim Dixon uk.vbcnet Steve Druck TERENA (Chairman) Lubos Elias sk.sanet Yoshiko Chong Fong APNIC (Observer) Daniel Karrenberg RIPE NCC Rolf Krause de.roka Mirjam Kuehne RIPE NCC (Minutes) Siegfried Langenbach de.csl-gmbh Humberto Lucas fr.eunet Javed Mirza uk.cabletel Isabelle Morel fr.renater Kees Neggers nl.surfnet Svend Moeller Nielsen dk.tbit Arnold Nipper de.xlink Mike Norris ie.heanet Juergen Rauschenbach de.dfn Pavel Rosendorf cz.eunet Miguel A. Sanz es.rediris Ian Smith uk.janet Oliver Smith uk.demon Nigel Titley uk.bt Pavel Vachek cz.cesnet Peter Villemoes dk.denet fi.funet no.uninett ... Wim Vink eu.eunet ____________________________________________________ Page 1 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ Olle F. Wallner se.swipnet Wilfried Woeber at.aconet Apologies The following people had sent their apologies prior to the meeting: Rob Blokzijl RIPE Henk Hofs nl.ibm Willi Huber ch.switch Eric Malmstrom se.transpac Joy Marino it.itnet Olivier Martin CERN (sponsor) Axel Pawlik de.eunet Ivan Sedinic hr.hpt Cliff Stanford uk.demon Agathoclis Stylianou cy.univ Dimitris Zisiadis gr.forthnet 1. Welcome & Preliminaries Steve Druck welcomed the participants was elected to chair the meeting. He welcomed Yoshiko Chong Fong of the Asian Pacific NIC as an observer to the meet- ing. Wim Vink asked to re-add discussion of the Terms of Reference. He explained that he wished to discuss the voting procedures. This was added as point 7. Later the discussion about waiving fees (original point 6) was moved ahead of the charging scheme (original point 5). ____________________________________________________ Page 2 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ Agenda The final agenda for the meeting: 1 Welcome, Selection of Chair for Meeting Steve Druck, TERENA VP for Services 2 NCC Activity Report Q1-Q3/95 Daniel Karrenberg, RIPE NCC Manager Presentation of reports already given. For information and comments. 3 NCC Financial Report Q1-Q3/95 Daniel Karrenberg, RIPE NCC Manager Presentation of Q1/Q2 Report plus then avail- able Q3 results. For information and comments. 4 NCC Activity Plan and Expenditure 1996 Daniel Karrenberg, RIPE NCC Manager Proposal sent out July 31st. For discussion and decision. 5 Procedures for Waiving of NCC Fees Steve Druck, TERENA VP for Services See discussion on mailing list. 6 NCC Charging Scheme 1996 Daniel Karrenberg, RIPE NCC Manager Proposal sent out July 31st. For discussion and decision. 7 Contributors Committee Terms of Reference Wim Vink, eu.eunet Voting Procedures To start discussion. ____________________________________________________ Page 3 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ 2. NCC Activity Report, Q1-Q3/1995 Documents "RIPE NCC Expenditure Planning 1995" ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ncc-co/ncc-exp.ps ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ncc-co/ncc-exp.txt "Short (Monthly) Reports" as sent to the mailing list. Workload The registration services workload is still increas- ing beyond the expectations on which the 1995 budget was based. There are currently 253 LIRs. This reflects the general boom in the Internet business. Consequently demands on registration services have been much bigger than expected and planned for. The NCC has given registration services priority since the customers depend on this for their busi- nesses. As a consequence other activities are suf- fering significantly. Actions NCC is striving to automate as many standard activi- ties as possible. A number if immediate actions have been taken to deal with this situation: o A request ticketing system has been implemented and deployed. o A request tracking (workflow management) sys- tems is being implemented. o A one day training course for new LIRs has been developed. Presented 3 of them already, have scheduled more. Staffing With the revised budget (see below) the NCC has pro- ceeded to hire junior staff for registration ser- vices. o Have signed contract with Hatice Kuey from Turkey in May, but have problems to get work ____________________________________________________ Page 4 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ permit for her due to recent change in Dutch employment law. TERENA is pursuing this with the Dutch authorities at the highest level. o Els Willems started July 1995 o Nick Reid started 28th August 1995 o Have advertised for and will hire at least one more part-time junior hostmaster this year. NCC has lost a senior hostmaster (Anne Lord) who went back to the UK to work for an ISP. NCC has advertised fo her position, hope to replace her in October. NCC has advertised for deputy manager. The number of useful applications was very limited. After intensive negotiations no candidate fitting the required profile remained. The plan is to change the profile in the direction of a "business manager" and to drop the required experience in Internet ser- vice provision. Other Activities Implemented the new charging scheme together with new procedures for invoicing and feedback to the service level. This is automated to the maximum extent possible now. This has cost more resources than expected but has been highly successful. New tool developed for reverse delegation requests; automatic checking of zones before forwarding to person who then delegates the reverse domains. Discussion Steve Druck reports that he is giving guidance to the NCC concerning work flow management and supports to expend the necessary funds for this activity. Ian Smith, Kees Neggers and others suggest to change the profile of the Deputy Manager position in the direction of a business manager. Daniel Karrenberg agrees. ____________________________________________________ Page 5 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ 3. NCC Financial Report Q1-Q3/1995 Documents "Audited Accounts 1994" as circulated on the mailing list. "RIPE NCC Expenditure Planning 1995" ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ncc-co/ncc-exp.ps ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ncc-co/ncc-exp.txt "RIPE NCC Revenue 1995" ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ncc-co/ncc-reven.ps ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ncc-co/ncc-reven.txt 1994 The audited accounts of 1994 show a surplus of 40kECU. However at the end of Q1/1995 there were still more than 80kECU in unpaid invoices outstand- ing. At the end of Q3/1995 this was still slightly more than 60kECU. The bulk of this is from LIRs no longer in operation and sponsorships. Conclusion: 1994 will probably be closed with a slight loss and no reserves. Q1/1995 During Q3/94 and Q1/95 there was no agreed charging scheme. NCC management and TERENA agreed that new staff could not be hired on this unsecure basis. Q2/1995 The situation changed drastically in a positive way. The charging scheme was agreed. The funding depen- dent service levels and tighter billing and invoic- ing procedures started working. At the end of Q2 there were commitments for 700kECU and 443kECU have been received (more than expenditure budget). As a consequence of this and the increased workload a revised expenditure budget raising total expendi- ture from 407kECU to 529kECU has been proposed by NCC management and approved by the committee and TERENA. The bulk of the additional expenditure is going into registration services. ____________________________________________________ Page 6 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ Q3/1995 The cash flow situation continues to be excellent and according to expectations. Secondary indicators such as the commitment ratio are improving also. Discussion Olle Wallner asked what kind of pressure does the RIPE NCC have for people that are not paying (apart from denying them service). Daniel Karrenberg answered that the model of two different service levels for is very successful. Also customers now sign a formal agreement committing them to pay up. Kees Neggers adds that it is clearly expressed in the agreement every LIR signs that the customer agrees to pay a financial contribution. There is also mentioned that the service can be decreased. Customer takes the risk that he will not receive any service. Olle Wallner asked who picks up a cash flow deficit when it is established. Steve Druck explained that TERENA would be taking the risk if there would be no reserves inside the RIPE NCC cost center, this is the reason why TERENA insists on building reserves. We may not always be able to recover money, LIRs may not exist anymore. Ian Smith asked if it is not time to pursue those who have not paid last year. Daniel Karrenberg explained that TERENA and the RIPE NCC have done this as much as possible: the total went down from 100 kECU to 60 kECU. The remaining bad debts are difficult to chase because they are mainly unhonoured sponsorships and registries not operating anymore. He adds that this is difficult because there were no formal agreements in 1994. Ian Smith asked about the scale of the safety-net for the RIPE NCC Daniel Karrenberg referred to the distributed documents: 592 kECU in the bank now, 529 kECU planned expenditure 1995, commitments for 873 kECU expected by the end of 1995. We expect to close this year with >300kECU reserves. Kees Neggers expresses that a deficit would really ____________________________________________________ Page 7 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ be the responsibility of the contributors committee as the TOR states that the contributors take joint responsibility for financing the services and opera- tions of the RIPE NCC. Wim Vink asks what the liabilities for 1996 are. Daniel Karrenberg replies that the employment related liabilities are 380kECU assuming the sched- uled termination of limited time contracts and ful- fillment of indefinite contracts for the whole year. He cannot say whether the last assumption is realis- tic. Other liabilities have not been explicitly evaluated but are regarded to be insignificant in comparison. 4. NCC Activity Plan and Expenditure 1996 Documents "RIPE NCC Activity Plan" ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-125.ps ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-125.txt "RIPE NCC Activities & Expenditure 1996" ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ncc-co/exp96.ps ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ncc-co/exp96.txt The "RIPE NCC Activity Plan" defines the activities of the RIPE NCC desired by the RIPE community. Based on that document the RIPE NCC manager describes the activities which the NCC will be able to carry out in 1996 and specifies the resources needed. This has been circulated in July as "RIPE NCC Activities & Expenditure 1996" The NCC Contribu- tors Committee then produces compulsory advice to TERENA about the activities they wish to see car- ried out and the resources they will commit for this as per point 3.2 of the committee's terms of refer- ence. Daniel Karrenberg gives a short summary of "RIPE NCC Activities & Expenditure 1996": The main challenges are consolidation of registration services and re- start of technical activities neglected in 1995. All activities are described in the document. Not all activities can be executed. Some are no longer needed. The total of the planned expenditure is 916kECU, 61% of which will be for registration ser- vices. ____________________________________________________ Page 8 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ Discussion & Decisions Wim Vink asked if junior hostmasters are clerically or technically educated and suggested to introduce different working levels inside registration ser- vices. Daniel Karrenberg explained that this is already being implemented. NCC will go towards two levels of support staff for registration services. The new junior hostmasters have a clerical back- ground but the hiring profile requires an aptitude to also learn technical issues. Since the purely clerical cases are mainly dealt with by LIRs the NCC staff has to have some technical insight. Blasco Bonito: activity 3.10 PRIDE Tool maintenance: This is very important for the European Internet, the tools have been developed at the RIPE NCC, we should take this opportunity and start new activity in this field, it should be possible to find a way of financing this activity. After some other remarks in the same vein there was consensus that the RIPE NCC has an important role in the develop- ment of the European Internet and should take a proactive role to influence technical development. It was discussed if technical projects should become core activities and funded by all contributors or if this kind of activity should only be funded by some contributors that are interested in a certain tech- nical project. It was agreed that the activity to track developments, coordinate developments and pro- pose larger project plans (4.4) should remain in the activity plan. The contributors can then decide if they all want to fund a project or if it will be funded by a subset of the contributors. It was not recommended to decrease one of the other activities instead. The RIPE NCC should put its energy in finding a deputy or business manager. The RIPE NCC needs a person that can relief Daniel Karrenberg from administrative tasks, so that he can again con- centrate on technical projects. The activity to keep a record of operational contact points has no resources allocated in the current plan. Stefan Biesbroeck suggests it could be help- ful to provide coordination in this area. Daniel Karrenberg explains that he regards the existing database objects and mailing lists as sufficient. He agrees coordination could be better but asks for suggestions of concrete activities, besides main- taining mailing lists, the routing registry and try- ing to bring ISPs in contact with each other when ____________________________________________________ Page 9 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ needed. Steve Druck: activity 3.1: NCC serves larger area (not only Europe). What is the geographical scope of the RIPE NCC? After some discussion it was agreed that an exact specification of the area is not needed at this point. It was suggested to expand the description of activity 3.1 to say "serves Europe and the surrounding area". Blasco Bonito missed activities on reverse delega- tion that the RIPE NCC do and suggested to mention this activity explicitly. It was agreed to explic- itly mention this task in activity 3.1. Blasco Bonito proposes to add resources to activity 3.2 in order to use more modern technologies for searches in DB. Daniel Karrenberg explains that sufficient resources are included in activity 4.1. Kees Neggers proposed different presentation for activities to clarify the relation between the expenditure budget and the activities. Daniel Kar- renberg explained that the description of activities and the budgeting follows ripe-125. The correspon- dences between activities and budget lines are explained in the text of "RIPE NCC Revenue & Charg- ing 1996". He agreed to include a table showing the correspondence between activities and budget lines in the final version of that document. He will also make sure that this is better aligned in 1997 bud- geting. Mike Norris and Juergen Rauschenbach suggested that the current model of IANA - RIRs - LIRs might not be sufficient; maybe another level of hierarchy below the NCC could be introduced to decrease workload for the RIPE NCC. Daniel Karrenberg explains that this has not been pursued yet because it will make it more difficult to maintain homogeneous assignment criteria and procedures. This has to be introduced carefully. It definitely is on the agenda for 1997 and procedures should be discussed within RIPE. At this point consensus is reached about the activi- ties. It is agreed to take the formal decision about the expenditure after the charging scheme is agreed. ____________________________________________________ Page 10 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ 5. Procedures for Waiving of NCC Fees The committee has discussed issue on the mailing list. Daniel Karrenberg circulated the list of options he had developed together with a short sum- mary of pros and cons. Discussion & Decisions After a short but intensive discussion there was consensus that NCC fees should not be waived fees for anyone anymore. Every LIR should pay the appro- priate fee. The rationale being that sufficient sources are available for those in real need of sponsorship. It was agreed that it is not the task of the contributors as a group to sponsor networking activities nor is it the task of the NCC to evaluate requests for sponsorship. 6. NCC Charging Scheme 1996 Documents "RIPE NCC Revenue & Charging 1996" ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ncc-co/inc96.ps ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/new-registry/ncc-co/inc96.txt Daniel Karrenberg summarises "RIPE NCC Revenue & Charging 1996" which proposes to continue the cur- rent model for 1996 with a decrease of all ISP reg- istry fees by 25%. He regrets that no usage based charging scheme could be prepared because of lack of resources. The NCC has looked a different options (allocation rate, request rate, time spent) but had no time to seri- ously keep track of the data and to prepare differ- ent models. Also no serious feedback was received on questions to the committee about the basic assumptions for the usage based charging. Daniel notes that other RIRs are moving towards charging models similar to the one currently imple- mented at the RIPE NCC. He also notes that only slightly more than 50% of the expected income from sign-up fees is used for activities specifically directed at new registries. Nonetheless he proposes not to decrease sign up fees ____________________________________________________ Page 11 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ because they form an effective discouragement against the establishment of many very small reg- istries especially towards the end of the year when regular fees are low. The predicted revenue in the document is still valid when corrected with more recent numbers; there are slightly less registries than expected, but the com- mitment rate is higher. Discussion & Decisions Humberto Lucas and Wim Vink expressed that they are happy with the service of the RIPE NCC but that they are worried about the status of the usage based charging scheme. The RIPE NCC has financial resources but did not manage to put usage based charging scheme in place. Wim Vink added that he considers it not acceptable that there was no time to prepare a usage based charging model and sug- gested that a consultant could have been hired. Daniel Karrenberg repeats that he regrets this as well and adds that the RIPE NCC is still in a catch up mode, he re prioritised activities to serve cus- tomers, other activities had to suffer from this. There was only a stable funding since May. He explained that the situation would not be solved by hiring a consultant. Without sufficient data col- lected a consultant could not have done very much. Arnold Nipper described how usage based charging has been implemented at the DENIC: 20% equally split over all customers, rest is dependent on usage (how many domains requested). Daniel Karrenberg explained registering domains is largely administra- tive. The technical registration work can be highly automated as the NCC has recently done with reverse DNS delegations. This cannot be directly compared to second level evaluation of IP address requests. Arnold agreed. Daniel also reported that he knows the DENIC charging scheme and plans to incorporate elements from it in the NCC proposals if they are applicable. Wilfried Woeber noted that it was already known for two months that the NCC will not present a usage based charging scheme at this meeting, the proposal on the table was also presented. Nobody else has proposed a model. He adds that any charging scheme must produce verifyable bills that can stand up to auditing by the auditors of the contributors. ____________________________________________________ Page 12 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ Steve Druck said that everything that is not as unstable as the situation at the beginning of 1995 is acceptable for TERENA. After more suggestions and discussions there was consensus not to re-open the issue of whether usage based charging should be introduced at all, but to have the NCC develop concrete proposals first. Everyone was encouraged to participate as much as possible in the development of such models. The issue of the "time permitting" service level was raised. Daniel Karrenberg reports that currently this is equivalent to no service. After some dis- cussion Kees Neggers proposed a change for 1996: Organisations that have signed a contract with the RIPE NCC but do not pay as well as organisations that do not sign a contract with the RIPE NCC should not receive any service from the RIPE NCC. The risk for the Internet is bigger with an unstable NCC than with some organisations that do not receive service from the RIPE NCC. Ian Smith asked what the consequences were for the Internet when the RIPE NCC does not serve people. Would this destroy the Internet regarding to CIDR? Would this create possible multiple address assign- ments? Daniel Karrenberg explains that the RIPE NCC has a de-facto monopoly for address space assign- ments in Europe. He expects complaints and accusa- tions of building a cartel if we do not provide basic service for free. However Internet wide opin- ion on this issue is certainly changing in favour of cost recovery for all such services. Double assign- ments are not likely to be caused by this move. After through discussion it was agreed to abandon the "time permitting" service level. This means that the RIPE NCC will provide registration services only to registries in good standing, i.e. agreement signed and no overdue payments. Kees Neggers raised the question regarding the sta- tus of Last Resort LIRs that do not contribute to the RIPE NCC. He suggested that they should either be closed or pay a normal fee. Daniel Karrenberg agreed that Last Resort LIRs can be closed as most of them do not serve a useful purpose since enough provider registries are available addresses should be aggregatable anyway. It was agreed that closing Last Resort LIRs is a good idea and that those remaining should pay a contribution according to the appropriate category. ____________________________________________________ Page 13 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ There is also consensus that the amount of the sign up fee shall not be decreased in 1996. Even if not all money is spend on explicit activities for new registries. The rationale being that new registries do provide additional workload on the RIPE NCC in the beginning. EUnet stated that they are still convinced that they pay too much in comparison with other contributors. After a lively discussion it was agreed to introduce a new registry category dubbed "supernational". Daniel Karrenberg raised that the agreement with EUnet last year was made without a decision about operational impacts. This left some ambiguities to be resolved by the NCC. He would not like this to happen again. Therefore the operational impacts of the new category need to be clearly defined. At this point the chair called a short break during which a small group proposed the following defini- tion of the "supernational" category: o Pays a fee of n times the fee for the LARGE category, where n is an integer >=2. o The "maximum" number of contact points to the NCC is equal to n. o The "maximum" address space allocation for a "supernational" registry is n times the normal maximum (currently /16) for n<5 and 1.5 times n for n>=5. o For n>=5 there is a 10% discount to the total fee. (This was later deleted) Daniel Karrenberg stressed that the address alloca- tion figures are "maximum" values and allocations are still determined by documented need and subject to normal allocation rules. Kees Neggers was against any discount: there is already a discount of 25% for everybody. After a lively discussion it became clear that consensus on a discount could not be reached. At that point Ian Smith proposed to reduce the fee for large LIRs to 8,500ECU as this would produce the effect desired by EUnet while being applied equitably. This was agreed. ____________________________________________________ Page 14 RIPE NCC Contributors Committee 2nd Meeting Draft Minutes ____________________________________________________ So the agreed charging scheme for 1996 is now: +----------------------------------------------+ | Category 1995 Fee 1996 Fee | +----------------------------------------------+ | | |Supernational ISP n*8500 | | Large ISP 12000 8500 | | Medium ISP 6000 4500 | | Small ISP 2000 1500 | | | | Enterprise 1000 1000 | | | | Last Resort 0 1500/4500/8500 | | | | Sign-Up Fee 2000 2000 | +----------------------------------------------+ At this point the "RIPE NCC Activities & Expenditure 1996" was also formally agreed with the amendments agreed earlier. 7. Contributors Committee Terms of Reference Discussion Wim Vink raised the issue of voting procedures: Vot- ing should be proportional to contributions. Isabelle Morel seconded that proposal. Kess Neggers explained that the contributors committee does not vote, because it is a consortium, that works by con- sensus, based on the money committed. Wim Vink was satisfied with this. Wim Vink then proposed to form a board that meets more often than once a year, is more active and can provide more continuous guidance. Daniel Karrenberg appreciated this idea. Steve Druck argued against board and suggested that if somebody is interested to do some work mail can be sent to the list. If the issue is also interesting for other people, then they can meet. In view of the limited time it was agreed that this issue would be further discussed on the mailing list. ____________________________________________________ Page 15

1 0

RIPE22: Visa
by RIPE NCC Staff 07 Sep '95

07 Sep '95

Dear RIPE meeting attendees, This letter is intended for all of you who need a visa to come to Amsterdam for the 22nd RIPE meeting. Since getting visas takes generally more time then one expects I would suggest you apply for a visa as fast as possible. On request, we can send you an invitation. If you want us to send an invitation, please tell us how many days and which days you are planning to stay. Furthermore, please give also your full name, the name of your organisation, the address and fax number. Possibly also birth date and passport number. If we mention these data in our invitation to you, it could facilitate getting visa. If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to contact me, Kind regards, Roderik Muit RIPE NCC

1 0

Training Course in Warsaw September 25th
by Daniel Karrenberg 07 Sep '95

07 Sep '95

Dear colleagues, we have been asked to provide a local Internet registry training course in Warsaw, Poland on September 25th adjacent to the CEENet workshop. Due to prior commitments it will be very difficult for us to make this date. In order to come to a decision quickly we would like everyone who *definitely* intends to attend this course to register with us a.s.a.p. using the form below. **** This does not mean that the course will take place !!! **** Many registrations from local registries, especially those established during this year, will make it more likely that the course will take place. Please restrict yourselves to two registrations per registry. Please also note that this course is *only* interesting for the people actually doing registration services at local registries. The course provides information about the registry procedures and not about network operations etc. So only definite registrations of registry personnel please. Thank you for your cooperation. If you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us. Regards Daniel Karrenberg RIPE NCC Manager %START PART 1 - Registration 1) Your name Enter First name, Last name in FULL e.g. John Doe Mary-Beth Walton # NAME [ ] 2) Your Registry ID (format: country-code.<name of registry>) # REG [ ] 3) Your e-mail address # EMAIL [ ] 4) The course you plan to attend (date and location) # COURSE [ Warsaw 25 Sept 1995 ] %END

1 0

RIPE22: Registration form
by RIPE NCC Staff 06 Sep '95

06 Sep '95

22nd RIPE meeting Amsterdam, The Netherlands October 11th-13th, 1995 Registration form %%%%%%%%%%% PLEASE NOTE %%%%%%%%%%% Our handling of ALL meeting registrations has recently been fully automated. To register for the meeting, please complete the registration form and send it to <meeting(a)ripe.net>. PLEASE FILL THIS OUT AS SPECIFIED. Please add in a value in the `box' area marked between the square brackets (i.e. "[" and "]" s). Note this is what will be used for your badge if you have requested one and for the attendee list so please take care to fill it in correctly. You will receive a notification message that your request has been processed. If however, you have any questions about the meeting or your registration form, please send your completed form to <ncc(a)ripe.net>. If you are interested in participating in the 22nd RIPE Meeting in Amsterdam, would you kindly fill in the attached form. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- %START PART 1 - Registration 1) Your name Enter First name, Last name in FULL (remember this is on list and badge) e.g. John Doe Mary-Beth Walton # NAME [ ] 2) Your Organisation/Institution # ORG [ ] 3) Your e-mail address # EMAIL [ ] 4) Country code of organisation e.g. IT FR # CTRY [ ] %END

1 0