- lir-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Re: 64kb and E1 pricing
by Mike Norris 06 Apr '98

06 Apr '98

> I am in need of a comparative pricing table of 64kb & E1 lines (national and > to the USA). Plz send me URLs if you have any. In Ireland, the national telco (Telecom Eireann, TE) are understandably reluctant to publish their tariff sheet for leased lines. Their rival, Esat, is just as coy; they ask you what TE charge you and, if the business suits them, quote you about 10% below TE. Anyway, here are the rates which TE charges for digital leased lines: Charge 64Kbps 512Kbps 2048Kbps Per local end * 608 2313 3800 Main link fixed ** 316 2530 5691 Main link per km to 30km 117 274 586 Main link per km over 30km 6.3 46 128 Setup charge per end 930 1660 5000 * Payable per local end up to 1km each. Add same figure per km for local end distance in excess of 1km. ** This is payable if the local ends connect to different exchanges. These charges are in Irish pounds. The first four elements are rental charges per year. VAT is applicable at 21%. For trans-Atlantic half-circuits, TE's charges are 83,000 a year for 512Kbps and 220,000 a year for 2Mbps. Ihth. Mike

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64kb and E1 pricing
by Hank Nussbacher 05 Apr '98

05 Apr '98

I am in need of a comparative pricing table of 64kb & E1 lines (national and to the USA). Plz send me URLs if you have any. Thanks, Hank

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JT's Restaurants(JTSR) - Excellent Undervauled Investment Opportunity
by jtsrstock＠yahoo.com 31 Mar '98

31 Mar '98

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by info＠inexchange.net 25 Mar '98

25 Mar '98

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auto-dbm "bad hair day".
by RIPE Database Administration 03 Mar '98

03 Mar '98

Dear Colleagues, There is a significant delay with <auto-dbm> today. This is due to a rare combination of events which have caused a heavy demand for resources. We have taken steps to improve the situation, and I do expect the situation to improve, although not as fast as I would like. Your updates are currently being queued and eventually they will be processed in the order in which they were delivered. However, some users continue to send very large updates during office hours and this slows the entire system down for everyone. I realise how important this is to you and that it is inconvenient. I take a personal pride in the speed at which auto-dbm responds and I wish to assure you that we are doing everything possible to restore the service to its usual level. Thank you for your patience today. If you have anymore questions, please contact <ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net>. Regards, Ambrose Magee ____________________________ RIPE Database Administration.

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Scaling the LIR Hierarchy
by philip bridge 25 Feb '98

25 Feb '98

Is anybody else starting to see the same scaling problem we are with the IR-LIR-Enduser hierarchy? We see two things happening: we ourselves are probably the largest ISP in Switzerland, which means we are getting a lot of bottom-tier ISPs as customers. At the same time, the VSE idea is catching on, so our ISP customers are themselves signing up lots of end-users who only need (and are prepared to accept) /27 or smaller assignments. This is causing us lots of problems, because our own LIR hostmaster team is dimensioned to assess requests from end-users connecting directly to our own network. Now in the past month I have seen 4 four requests from ISP customers for /24 ranges that should be assigned to their own VSE customers, but we have to reject the requests and ask the ISPs to re-submit 8 or so individual requests for each VSE end-user, which we have to vet. What makes this worse is that the ISPs are not set up to collect the usual info required for an assessment. It is also bloating our internal routing tables, and while not yet a problem, I would give it two years before it does become a problem. There are some ways we can improve the situation, but most of them involve discouraging ISPs from making these assignments (for example, we could charge prohibitivly for 'LIR' services if the end-user is not our customer, or we could suggest that ISPs wanting more than (say) a /22 for VSE customers should become a LIR itself). But I have to say that in most cases these assigments are probably justified - end-users really are buying into the idea of classless VSE assignments - and I think this community should do all in it's power to make it *easier* to make VSE assignments. On the other hand, we as a LIR simply cannot handle the rush of requests from end-users that are not our own customers... My suggestion: we need another tier in the IR-LIR-Enduser hierarchy. I suggest that LIRs be able to delegate a small range of space to a sub-LIR. For the sake of argument, this could be a /24, and one could stipulate that only VSE assignments can be made from this range. Of course, the assigning LIR is still held responsible for the correct assignment of this space, and could employ many/all of the techniques an IR itself uses to manage the activites of LIRs. The sub-LIR is responsible for assessment and assignment, and registration in the DB. The advantage is that this model is scalable, since it delegates much of the LIR function closer to the end-user. It also removes the motivation for small ISPs to become LIRs themselves and receive a perhaps unjustifiable large /19 allocation. A further advantage is that is improves route aggregation within the LIR's own internal routing system. Feedback? I am hurridly donning my asbestos suit in anticipation of the forthcoming blast of flames ;-) Phil ______________________________________________________________ Philip Bridge ++41 31 688 8262 bridge(a)ip-plus.net www.ip-plus.ch PGP: DE78 06B7 ACDB CB56 CE88 6165 A73F B703

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Re: [ripe-167] ENOUGH!!!!!!
by Berislav Todorovic 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

>> I'm sure that closing this discussion would be dangerous, because >> during the Moscow meeting it have been said that silence would be >> regarded as consent. To create a separate Internet registry for a region, a consensus among interested parties in the region has to be achieved. The discussion on this list showed everything except consensus. Most discutants were from former Soviet republics (applogies if anyone will find himself/herself offended by this remark, but it is a fact), while most people from this list, located on the West side of the Russian border, expressed none or very small interest to take part in the discussion. Fist off, the point of my previous proposal to create a local mailing list in Russia (I've heard it exists) is not to stress out that this discussion is unuseful. On the contrary ... it IS useful, but it is being run at the WRONG PLACE! Secondly, it came to the point where consensus could not be reached. Since I'm living in a country whose destiny much resembles to the destiny of the former Soviet Union, my personal point of view of the further steps would be: * Move the discussion from the LIR-WG to the local mailng list. * Create a local working group, consisting of representatives of all interested parties. * Organize a public forum, meeting - either live or electronic. * Try to reach consensus within the working group. * Don't publish anything out of the local working group scope until there is a strong consensus among all (or, at least, among the majority of) interested parties. * Of course - someone will always stay unhappy, but that's everyday life ... * If the consensus among all (or significant majority of) interested parties can not be reached, forget the whole idea! It will be more like an awful marriage, than a good RIR! * If and when consensus is reached - publish the proposal to the RIPE, IANA and other interested parties and mailing lists. * To the rest of the world, all interested parties MUST show mutual consensus clearly. After it has been reached, noone MUST NOT express anything against the statements, built in the draft proposal. Good luck on the future work on the Russian RIR! ;-) Best regards, Beri .-------. | --+-- | Berislav Todorovic, B.Sc.E.E. | E-mail: BERI(a)etf.bg.ac.yu | /|\ Hostmaster of the YU TLD | |-(-+-)-| School of Electrical Engineering | Phone: (+381-11) 3221-419 | \|/ Bulevar Revolucije 73 | 3370-106 | --+-- | 11000 Belgrade SERBIA, YUGOSLAVIA | Fax: (+381-11) 3248-681 `-------' --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [ripe-167] ENOUGH!!!!!!
by Ilya Shulman 24 Feb '98

24 Feb '98

-----Original Message----- From: Berislav Todorovic <BERI(a)etf.bg.ac.yu> To: violet(a)rosnet.net <violet(a)rosnet.net> Cc: lir-wg(a)ripe.net <lir-wg(a)ripe.net> Date: 23 FEWRALQ 1998 G. 16:32 Subject: Re: [ripe-167] ENOUGH!!!!!! >I'd suggest you to create a local mailing list somewhere in Russia, >publish its location and subscription info here on the LIR-WG and >transfer all this discussion there. The list should be opened to >anyone interested. I hope you'll achieve some solution acceptable >for everyone. There is such list in local-ir(a)ripn.net but it is in russian. So there are little chance if any that somebody from Europe will read this list. Though I understand that some of you may count this flow as "spam", some - as unnecessary waste of bandwidth. But on the other hand I think that it will be better if RIPE officials and LIR in Europe know the situation with ripe-167 project. And will be able to stop the development of RIR in Russia if need be. Also, I think that this subject has some relation with RIPE and Internet development. However, this list is under RIPE authority depends on them ;) Just my 2 roubles ;) ish ------ Ilya Shulman ish(a)east.ru +7-095-956-4951 ISH-RIPN East Connection ISP, Moscow, Russia. http://www.east.ru

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Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
by Dmitri Bourkov 23 Feb '98

23 Feb '98

-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Stesin <stesin(a)gu.net> To: Sergey A. Mukhin <violet(a)rosnet.net> > Ok, we are waiting for a new better and solid document. > Show it to us, and we'll (probably) start thinking > on it... > Andrey, but you can agree that RIPE office in Moscow will be useful in any case. I think that it is clear that RIPN provides services in Moscow and we need it. Discussion about RIR should be continued, but it should not stop current work.

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Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
by Sergey A. Mukhin 23 Feb '98

23 Feb '98

>>>>> "V" == Vladimir Lebedev <wal(a)rtsnet.ru> writes: V> Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:51:55 +0300 V> To: lir-wg(a)ripe.net V> Cc: joker(a)rtsnet.ru, ant(a)rtsnet.ru, igor(a)rtsnet.ru V> Alexei Platonov wrote: >> According to Sergey Gulchuck: >> > >> > > Many people of ex-USSR countries speak Russian and ( for now ) not so >> > > many speak English ( alas! ). Thus language selection matters something too. >> > >> > I'm wondering why Moscovites try to decide something for other people. >> ^^^^^^^^^^ >> This is the English translation for "Moskali" ? >> >> May be we shall stop this discussion which is interesting for just a few people >> from the list? The Ukrainian ISPs introduced their coordinated decision >> and in fact you have nothing to add. Or may be you have too much free time ? V> Looking at the large number of replies on the [ripe-167] topic I think that number V> of people who interested in this discussion is not just "few". Moreover, in this V> discussion participating peolple not only from CIS countries, but all over the V> Europe. V> I'm looking at the discussion and it reminds me a situation in FidoNet at the early V> 90th. There was a try to separate CIS countries netwokrs from Europe! Our V> "independent" Moscow's guys wanted to create Zone 7 for CIS, independend from Zone 2 V> (Europe) with own Zone Coordinator and all other attributes of power, for example V> rights to assign Fido network numbers for geographical regions. Formal reasons was V> absolutely the same: language issues, time zone difference etc., etc. Thanks God, V> that "coup" was unseccussful. V> Now the history repeating, but at this time with Internet. I hope the finish of the V> story will be the same. Well, history never repeats the same exactly. Just something in common with the past; often appearance but not the actual reasons. Yes, there seems to be something in common here. Far not everything, however. First, now we ( ISPs ) have a pretty simple dilemma: A) we ( I mean the Association ) takes the control or B) our government does it. Do you need any more comments ? V> I want to make clear for the audience the real reason of this "independance V> movement": MONOPOLIZATION OF IP NETWORK ADDRESSES ASSIGNMENT IN RUSSIA AND OTHER CIS V> COUNTRIES BY ROSNIIROS (RIPN). V> RIPN had already monopolized the domain name delegation under ".ru", and the only V> thing this they doesn't hove at this time is control under the network addresses. Nope. Here you are wrong. RIPN had monopolized RU. Internic had monopolized COM, NET, ORG and EDU. RIPE had monopolized a big block of IP address space. God had monopolized the Universe. How far it is possible to get thinking that way ? V> If they receive this control, can you imagine the amount of money that will be V> "informally" squezeed from russian LIR's for the good relationship from the RIPN V> side? I can. It always was a favorite habit of some kind of people -- to dream about money in a neighbour's pocket. Was that an argument? Anyway, not so much money as you can imagine. And rather earned, not "squeezed". How about thinking for "If I were Bill Gates..."? Or it is better first to learn something about matters before speaking of them? V> Vladimir. V> Content-Description: Card for Vladimir Lebedev V> begin: vcard V> fn: Vladimir Lebedev V> n: Lebedev;Vladimir V> org: RTS Technical Center V> adr: 15, Chayanova str., bldg. 5;;3rd floor;Moscow;;125267;Russia V> email;internet: wal(a)rtsnet.ru V> title: Technical Director V> tel;work: +7 (095) 733 95 05 V> tel;fax: +7 (095) 733 95 15 V> note: ICQ #: 6857070 V> x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 V> x-mozilla-html: TRUE V> version: 2.1 V> end: vcard V> Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergey A. Mukhin | violet(a)rosnet.net Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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