November 2002 - lir-wg - mailman.ripe.net

[lir-wg]Election of chairs to the lir-wg - call for nominations
by Hans Petter Holen 13 Dec '02

13 Dec '02

Dear wg, As mentioned at the last wg-meeting, one of the co-chairs, James Alderidge, has started working for the RIPE NCC, and as one of the unwritten rules of the LIR-wg is that it should be chaired by non RIPE NCC staff, James is no longer serving as a co-chair of this wg. Last time we had an election the wg deceided that one chair and two co-chairs was suitable. As I find it good practice to hold an open election from time to time I propose that we do an election for all 3 chairs. I would like to propose to the WG that we do a open nomination process on the lir-wg list up until lets say one month before the next RIPE meeting (27 to 31 January 2003) for chair and two co-chairs and that we do the chair election at the next wg meeting in Amsterdam. This should give the wg a good opportunity to discuss potential candidates. Best Regards, Hans Petter Holen lir-wg chair.

3 3

ref: the 50% increase discussion: reality check, pls.
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 09 Dec '02

09 Dec '02

The invitaion to the general assembly meeting is still accessible on the web server: http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/about/gm/gm2002/gm-announce2002.html It lists all the items on the agenda, and those topics (with a verbatim resolution for decision included) for which a vote was required. And it included the link to the Articles of the Association. In particular Article 15 - General Meeting is relevant there, in that it states, i.a., <included here to provide context> "The executive board shall send the verbatim text of the resolutions proposed by the said members immediately to all members of the association." </included ...> "The general meeting may only resolve with respect to resolutions concerning subjects for which the verbatim text of the related resolutions has been sent to the members in accordance with the above." This provision _in particular_ is meant to support proxy voting, by clearly documenting the issues at hand and the resolutions put in front of the members to decide. So it _is_ easy to be represented by proxy. Reality check, please! And, no, I _don't_ like increased fees, but I _do_ understand that they are necessary for the moment. Regards, Wilfried.

16 30

Re: [lir-wg] What "Region" is RIPE ?
by Keith Talent 04 Dec '02

04 Dec '02

>What "Region" is RIPE ? And what region are you in, Jim? Have you ever been to a RIPE meeting? Or an ARIN meeting? Or APNIC or LACNIC? Or even ICANN for that matter? Have you ever listened to anything that anyone else has said? Have you ever taken the time to actually find out what the RIRs do? Because it's obvious from your posts that you really haven't got a clue. So why should anyone listen to you? If the IPv4/IPv6 Internet is evil, then get off it. You can go and rule the "IPv8/IPv16" Internet and leave the rest of us alone. --- ********************************* Keith Talent Snr Sys Admin MSCE DART Problem? What problem? ********************************* On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:24:04 Jim Fleming wrote: >What "Region" is RIPE ? > >http://www.caida.org/analysis/geopolitical/bgp2country/ > >http://www.caida.org/analysis/geopolitical/bgp2country/data/source_add_pre_… >US 704056771 (50.357%) 65945 (58.259%) 5899 (53.317%) >AU 14416063 ( 1.031%) 5894 ( 5.207%) 213 ( 1.925%) >CA 26436124 ( 1.891%) 5313 ( 4.694%) 239 ( 2.160%) >ZA 6533529 ( 0.467%) 2703 ( 2.388%) 35 ( 0.316%) >?? 306555022 (21.926%) 2547 ( 2.250%) 276 ( 2.495%) >DE 51874361 ( 3.710%) 2410 ( 2.129%) 402 ( 3.633%) > > Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com

14 15

RE: [lir-wg] Re: 50% increase in RIPE fees ? Since when ?
by Axel Pawlik 01 Dec '02

01 Dec '02

At 26 11 2002 09:21 +0100, you wrote: >Perhaps it is possible for you to inform us about steps which are >under way on your side to cut down the expenses? Siegfried, The outstanding "theme" for the RIPE NCC over the past years was to get the service levels right. We have invested a lot of effort and resources into this. We see that these efforts have resulted in shorter, more stable response times. This has given us room to breathe, and tim to plan for real structural changes in the way we interact with our members. This will streamline communication, and actually take a lot of tasks off our hands. The secure web site for members will become the pivotal tool for this. Seeing that demand for our services is still on the rise, despite a much slower growth in membership than expected, and in line with members' comments we take a conservative approach with regard to staffing levels. However, we expect increased efficiency together with the effect LIRs working through the secure web page, to have a positive budgetary impact. When you look at the RIPE NCC budget for the last few years, you will see that after increases of 31%, 27% and 21% for the last three years, we have budgeted for an "inflation correction" of 4% for 2003. This will give us sufficient resources to accomplish our tasks and develop our services as requested. Further, to ensure enduring stability, the 2003 fees will contribute to the reserves, which will have been diminished during the course of 2002. Over the course of 2002 we have kept a close watch on all expense, and certainly continue to do so. regards, Axel

2 1

RE: [lir-wg] RIPE NCC GM during RIPE meetings?
by Hans Petter Holen 30 Nov '02

30 Nov '02

>===== Original Message From Philip Smith <pfs(a)cisco.com> ===== >Who can this idea be proposed to? Should it be proposed to the RIPE NCC >board, or does someone need to write up a policy proposal for the LIR-WG to >consider, or what? You should talk to the RIPE NCC Assoication Board members. I guess it is usualy the board of an association who deceides the time and place for the General Assembly. As this is not an addressing policy issue I don't think the lir-wg could make a policy on this. Looking at the charter: The LIR Working Group - the open forum where RIPE policy is made - deals with issues that concern Local Internet Registries. For example, procedures are discussed in this working group. It may fall under "deals with issues that concern Local Internet Registries" so I guess it could be discussed on the lir-wg list. -hph

1 0

UnSubscribing LIR workgroup
by Bouček Jan 29 Nov '02

29 Nov '02

Hello, I would like to unsubscribe from LIR workgroup and I didn't find any form in RIPE web. Reason is changing mailbox. New mailbox is boucek(a)quick.cz. Thanks in advance. Jan Boucek CZ.CZNET

2 1

Re: 50% increase in RIPE fees ? Since when ?
by Axel Pawlik 28 Nov '02

28 Nov '02

Dear Peter, Activities of the RIPE NCC, including its operation and yearly fee structure, are approved by the membership as proposed in the annual RIPE NCC Activity Plan. The RIPE NCC Activity Plan is formed on input from the RIPE community and users of RIPE NCC services. The RIPE NCC's Activity Plan for 2003 was published for comment to the community on 17 September this year. The plan was then presented by the Executive Board of the RIPE NCC for membership approval at the annual General Meeting (GM) of the RIPE NCC. This year's GM was held 29 October 2002. At the meeting, the membership voted unanimously to approve the fee structure, thereby increasing their fees. The RIPE NCC, operating as a not-for-profit organisation, budgets on a cost-recovery basis. This implies that we make an expense proposal and a matching charging scheme. Due to the economic situation, we saw substantially less influx of new members over the course of the last twelve months than forecast, also we have lost member due to closures and mergers. As a result of that, the RIPE NCC will have a sizeable deficit this year. Membership decisions taken over the course of the years have made it possible that we can rely on our reserves to cover the cost of operations this year. To ensure that the prime goal of our membership is met, namely to run RIPE NCC operations stably, we have proposed the current figures for the year 2003. The RIPE NCC appreciates membership feedback and encourages active participation by our members. More information is available from the following RIPE Documents: - "Highlights from the RIPE NCC General Meeting 2002" located at: http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/about/gm/gm2002/highlights.html - "RIPE NCC Activities, Expenditures, and Charging Scheme 2003" located at: http://www/ripe/docs/ap2003.html - "RIPE NCC Billing Procedure and Fee Schedule 2003" located at: http://www/ripe/docs/billing2003.html kind regards, Axel Pawlik

13 38

New draft document available
by RIPE NCC WebMaster 28 Nov '02

28 Nov '02

Dear Colleagues, A new draft document is available from the RIPE Document Store. "DRAFT: Experimental Internet Resource Allocations & Assignments" is available at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/draft-documents/experimental-resources.html Comments on this draft document will be accepted until 12 December 2002. After incorporating any suggested changes to the document, the final document will be published as a RIPE Document. All comments and suggestions should be sent to <lir-wg(a)ripe.net>. Kind Regards, Jeroen Bet RIPE NCC Webmaster

1 0

Re: [lir-wg] Do we love Jim Fleming ? I don't...
by Tiberiu Ungureanu 28 Nov '02

28 Nov '02

On Thu, 2002-11-28 at 13:03, Tiberiu Ungureanu wrote: > ... so i made a poll. let's all vote him out of this list. i am stupid :) forgot to send url: http://www.bridge-club.ro/poll/index.php -- Tiberiu Ungureanu Network Engineer iNES Internet Public GnuPG Key at http://www.ines.ro/public_keys/tbb.gpg

1 0

Do we love Jim Fleming ? I don't...
by Tiberiu Ungureanu 28 Nov '02

28 Nov '02

... so i made a poll. let's all vote him out of this list. i think that's the way things are done at RIPE... by consensus... so let's vote, and get Jim out of this list. PLEASE. -- Tiberiu Ungureanu Network Engineer iNES Internet Public GnuPG Key at http://www.ines.ro/public_keys/tbb.gpg

1 0

New Document available: RIPE-260
by RIPE NCC Document Announcement Service 28 Nov '02

28 Nov '02

[Apologies for duplicate mails] New RIPE Document Announcement -------------------------------------- A new document is available from the RIPE document store. Ref: ripe-260 Title: RIPE NCC Billing Procedure and Fee Schedule 2003 Author: Mireille Ent, Jochem de Ruig Date: 31 October 2002 Format: PS=359378 TXT=12616 Obsoletes: Obsoleted by: Updates: Updated by: Short content description ------------------------- The "RIPE NCC Billing Procedure and Fee Schedule 2003" outlines the billing and payment procedure for members of the RIPE NCC and contains additional related information about the RIPE NCC. This document should be read in conjunction with the "RIPE NCC General Terms and Conditions" and the "RIPE NCC Clearing House Procedure". Accessing the RIPE document store --------------------------------- You can access the RIPE documents in HTML format via our website. The "RIPE NCC Billing Procedure and Fee Schedule 2003" is available at the following URL: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/billing2003.html You can also access the RIPE documents via anonymous FTP to ftp.ripe.net, in the directory ripe/docs. The URLs for the new documents on the FTP-server are: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-260.ps PostScript version ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-260.txt plain text version Kind Regards, Jeroen Bet RIPE NCC Webmaster

6 7

Warning
by Axel Pawlik 28 Nov '02

28 Nov '02

Jim, based on your track record on this and other lists, I am warning you that we will ban you from RIPE related mailing lists, if you continue to spam the list with off topic and unconstructive postings. regards, Axel Pawlik

1 0

Re: [lir-wg] RIPE Payments to ICANN
by Keith Talent 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

To LIR-WG Chair, Let's can the spam. --- ********************************* Keith Talent Snr Sys Admin MSCE DART Problem? What problem? ********************************* On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 09:58:48 Jim Fleming wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Peter Galbavy" <peter.galbavy(a)knowtion.net> >> > A /8 is equivalent to 16,777,216 apartments (cyber hotels)... >> > At $15 per month, an ISP has a monthly revenue of $251,658,240 and >> $3,019,898,880 per year. >> > >> > One month to "the broker" would be $251,658,240. >> >> Jim, you have even lower an understanding of economics, esp WRT to IP >> addressing, than I was accused of earlier. >> > >Can you enlighten everyone with your "understanding of economics" ? > >Are AM economics different from FM economics....? >...Quality costs money....many people are willing to pay for higher quality... > > Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com

1 0

Re:[lir-wg] RIPE Payments to ICANN
by Murray, John 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

It is true that 'on the Internet nobody knows you're a dog', or a broken automaton. Reading this thread I don't think 'Jim' would pass the Turing test. Regards John ________________________________________________________________________ This message has been checked for all known viruses by the CitC Virus Scanning Service powered by SkyLabs. For further information visit http://www.citc.it

2 1

AM /8 Transfers
by Jim Fleming 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

http://www.ripe.net/db/erx/erx-ip/ A detailed list of which networks will be transfered, and to which RIR, will be posted before each /8 is transfered. A full schedule for each network will also be published for each /8. ==== Launching a new TLD with the first letter from N to Z ? http://www.NET.nz

1 0

flemming
by Randy Bush 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

long experience suggests o do not reply to the idiot. do not feed trolls, they only puke it up in public o formally request his posting, not subscription, privileges be revoked anything else amplifies the problem randy

2 1

ARIN Election Results
by Jim Fleming 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

http://www.arin.net/announcements/11152002.html John M. Brown 17 David Conrad 53 Stephen Stuart 31 Bill Woodcock 51 ==== Total Votes Cast 152 On Friday, November 15, 2002, the Advisory Council appointed Lea Roberts and Stacy Taylor as Advisory Council members to fill the vacancies created by the resignations of lyric apted and John Brown.

1 0

GM 2002 (and older) documents
by Axel Pawlik 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

Dear all, to complement Wilfried's pointer to the invitation to the General Meeting, I want to point you towards the link of the proceedings: http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/about/gm/gm2002/ Further, http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/about/gm/index.html supplies a complete trail of documentation including proposal documents from 1999. Earlier meeting minutes are present. To complete the list, http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/alltitle.html contains all planning documents from 1995 on (ripe-125). regards, Axel

2 1

Again...Simple Question...What does RIPE pay ICANN per year for /8s ?
by Jim Fleming 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

Again...Simple Question...What does RIPE pay ICANN per year for /8s ? $0 ? $1 ? $1,000 ? $100,000 ? $100,000,000 ? $200,000,000 ? ...there is an old joke about knowing who you are...now the price just has to be worked out...

1 0

RIPE Payments to ICANN
by Chris Hallam 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

If my assumptions are correct, the point being made here is that the RIPE NCC is being questioned over the use of funds, generated from the LIRs, to support other organisations. In this case the ICANN. While it would be interesting to know the sum paid by the RIPE NCC to ICANN, as outlined in the document below, the matter is already under focus, and the remaining 50% of the contribution is not going to be paid unless the Executive Board says otherwise. If other participants of this forum agree that contributions to ICANN should be suspended, then those people need to voice their opinions to ensure the Executive Board don't change their minds. I, for one, haven't looked closely into the operations of ICANN, but if the general opinion is that, 'the RIRs can fulfil their mission without ICANN.', then I am happy to accept that judgement. The full document for the 29th Meeting of the RIPE NCC Executive Board can be found here: http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/about/board/minutes/twenty-nine.html Financial information relating to ICANN can be found here: http://www.icann.org/financials/ One document that caught my attention was the Report of Expense Reimbursement and Other Payments to ICANN Directors: http://www.icann.org/financials/director-expenses-fye2002.htm Chris -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fleming [mailto:JimFleming@ameritech.net] Sent: 27 November 2002 02:37 To: lir-wg(a)ripe.net Subject: [lir-wg] "...need to raise funding for first half of 2003..." How much does RIPE currently pay to ICANN ? http://www.dnso.org/clubpublic/council/Arc11/msg00184.html (3) The ICANN budget will not support much funding for the GNSO in first half of 2003, so our budget assumptions are still valid (ie the GNSO will need to raise funding for first half of 2003). ===== ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. **********************************************************************

4 8

RE: [lir-wg] RIPE is 0:1 .NET ?
by Chris Ransley 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

Jim do you possibly have nothing better to do. Please stop sending such JUNK it is not appreciated. Best Regards, Christian Ransley B.Sc. Web & Technical Services Manager Keyworld Ltd. UB42, Industrial Zone San Gwann SGN 09 Tel: (+356) 2540 2540 Fax: (+356) 2540 9999 Email: webmaster(a)keyworld.net Website: http://www.keyworld.net -----Original Message----- From: Jim Fleming [mailto:JimFleming@ameritech.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 3:35 PM To: lir-wg(a)ripe.net Subject: [lir-wg] RIPE is 0:1 .NET ? http://www.icann.org/general/amend3-jpamou-25may01.htm "1. The agreements entitled ".com Registry Agreement," ".net Registry Agreement," and ".org Registry Agreement" between ICANN and VeriSign, Inc. and relating to the provision of registry services for the .com, .net, and .org registries are hereby approved by the DOC in substitution for the Registry Agreement between ICANN and Network Solutions, Inc., effective date November 10, 1999. ICANN will not enter into any material amendment of, or substitution for, said agreements, nor will said agreements be assigned by ICANN, without prior approval of the DOC." ====== AM is 0 NZ is 1 ....but NZ is not open like AM so some people want OZ and AN.......AN...OZ NET begins with N so it would go under NZ or under AN....some want it under AN...not under OZ RIPE.NET.AN RIPE.NET.NZ In the end, the software finds the .NET TLD servers and therefore RIPE.NET... ....so .NET is in Switzerland.... http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/ecma/ ...with AM and FM (NZ)....you still have 0:82 and 1:82 http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space RIPE seems to think it has 0 and 1 (AM and FM)... ----- Original Message ----- From: "leo vegoda" <leo(a)ripe.net> To: <lir-wg(a)ripe.net>; <routing-wg(a)ripe.net> Cc: <nanog(a)merit.edu>; <apops(a)apnic.net>; <apnic-talk(a)apnic.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 3:53 AM Subject: [lir-wg] New IPv4 blcok allocated to RIPE NCC > Dear Colleagues, > > The RIPE NCC received the IPv4 address range 82.0.0.0/8 from the > IANA in November 2002. We will begin allocating from this range > in the near future. > > You may wish to adjust any filters you have in place accordingly. > > More information on the IP space administered by the RIPE NCC > can be found on our web site at: > > <http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/smallest-alloc-sizes.html> > > Kind regards, > > -- > leo vegoda > RIPE NCC > Registration Services

2 1

RIPE is 0:1 .NET ?
by Jim Fleming 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

http://www.icann.org/general/amend3-jpamou-25may01.htm "1. The agreements entitled ".com Registry Agreement," ".net Registry Agreement," and ".org Registry Agreement" between ICANN and VeriSign, Inc. and relating to the provision of registry services for the .com, .net, and .org registries are hereby approved by the DOC in substitution for the Registry Agreement between ICANN and Network Solutions, Inc., effective date November 10, 1999. ICANN will not enter into any material amendment of, or substitution for, said agreements, nor will said agreements be assigned by ICANN, without prior approval of the DOC." ====== AM is 0 NZ is 1 ....but NZ is not open like AM so some people want OZ and AN.......AN...OZ NET begins with N so it would go under NZ or under AN....some want it under AN...not under OZ RIPE.NET.AN RIPE.NET.NZ In the end, the software finds the .NET TLD servers and therefore RIPE.NET... ....so .NET is in Switzerland.... http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/ecma/ ...with AM and FM (NZ)....you still have 0:82 and 1:82 http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space RIPE seems to think it has 0 and 1 (AM and FM)... ----- Original Message ----- From: "leo vegoda" <leo(a)ripe.net> To: <lir-wg(a)ripe.net>; <routing-wg(a)ripe.net> Cc: <nanog(a)merit.edu>; <apops(a)apnic.net>; <apnic-talk(a)apnic.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 3:53 AM Subject: [lir-wg] New IPv4 blcok allocated to RIPE NCC > Dear Colleagues, > > The RIPE NCC received the IPv4 address range 82.0.0.0/8 from the > IANA in November 2002. We will begin allocating from this range > in the near future. > > You may wish to adjust any filters you have in place accordingly. > > More information on the IP space administered by the RIPE NCC > can be found on our web site at: > > <http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/smallest-alloc-sizes.html> > > Kind regards, > > -- > leo vegoda > RIPE NCC > Registration Services

1 0

ITU covers "RIPE Region" and .EU
by Jim Fleming 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/worksem/cctld/index.html Co-Chairmen of the Workshop: a.. Mr. Philippe DISTLER, ART, France, Chairman of ITU-T SG2 (as of 1 January 2003) b.. Mr. Willie BLACK, Nominet, UK, Chairman of CENTR =====

1 0

Should we release the C@t ?
by Jim Fleming 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

Should we release the C@t ? http://www.ddj.com/articles/1993/9310/ http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/ecma/ http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0208/25.jaguar.php Jim Fleming 128-bit DNS is closer than you think... IPv16...COM...NET...AM...NZ...AE...FM...NR...SZ...AC...DE...FI...JM...NO...PR...ST...UZ http://ipv8.dyndns.tv http://ipv8.dyns.cx http://ipv8.no-ip.com http://ipv8.no-ip.biz http://ipv8.no-ip.info http://ipv8.myip.us http://ipv8.dyn.ee

1 0

Re: [lir-wg] What "Region" is RIPE ?
by Keith Talent 27 Nov '02

27 Nov '02

This answer from Fleming demonstrates exactly why he should be banned from this list. Until he can be bothered to find out the basics of RIPE operations, he doesn't deserve to be allowed to post. He treats the rest of us with contempt. Why should we allow him the right to stay on our lists? On Wed, 27 Nov 2002 00:57:23 Jim Fleming wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Keith Talent" <keith.talent(a)eudoramail.com> >To: <lir-wg(a)ripe.net> >Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:52 AM >Subject: Re: [lir-wg] What "Region" is RIPE ? > > >> >What "Region" is RIPE ? >> >> And what region are you in, Jim? >> > >What are the choices ? > >IPv16... >COM...NET... >AM...NZ... >AE...FM...NR...SZ... >AC...DE...FI...JM...NO...PR...ST...UZ > > > Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com

1 0