August 2001 - lir-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Re: 90 IPv6 sub-TLA allocations made
by David R Huberman 08 Aug '01

08 Aug '01

To: lists-lir-wg-out(a)lists.ripe.net To: James Aldridge <jhma(a)KPNQwest.net> Reply-To: <E15UTi5-0001hs-00(a)aegir.EU.net> > Of course, that one sub-TLA gives us a total amount of address space which is > adequate for our current requirements for the whole network but once this is > split over each of about 20 separate autonomous systems, each with their own > routing policy, this is hardly going to result in optimally aggregatable > routing... And when you explain this to RIPE, how do they respond? If you can make a bona fide engineering argument for obtaining more than one sub-TLA, it seems to me that any RIR is obliged to seriously consider that argument. /david

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90 IPv6 sub-TLA allocations made
by leo vegoda 06 Aug '01

06 Aug '01

Dear Colleagues, In 1999 The RIPE NCC and the other Regional Internet Registries (RIRs), ARIN and APNIC, began allocating IPv6 sub-TLAs. According to current policy[1] the bootstrap phase "will only apply until 100 requesting organisations have received allocations of sub-TLA address space". To date, the three RIRs have made 90 sub-TLA allocations[2]. At RIPE 39 in Bologna it was suggested to prolong the bootstrap phase until RIPE 40 if 100 allocations are reached. We will inform the community as soon as 100 IPv6 allocations have been made. Other IPv6 information is available on our web site at <http://www.ripe.net/ipv6>. Regards, -- leo vegoda Senior Hostmaster RIPE NCC [1] The Global Provisional IPv6 Assignment and Allocation Policy document is available at <http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6policy.html> [2] Details of the allocations are available from the IPv6 section at <http://www.ripe.net/cgi-bin/ipv6allocs>.

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Re: selling PA as PI
by Nurani Nimpuno 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Dear Bogdan, Thank you for bringing this to our attention. The RIPE NCC has an auditing service that we provide to the community. The auditing activity was set in place to promote the consistent and fair application of IP Address policies. The activity is focused around helping the LIRs to understand and follow the correct policies and procedures. The RIPE NCC will first discuss the issue with the LIR involved and outline the correct policies and procedure. Most audits are done by random selection, but there is also the possibility of requesting an audit. LIRs can approach the RIPE NCC if they suspect that another LIR is violating the address policies set in place by the Internet community. For more information about the Audit Activity, please refer to: http://www.ripe.net/rs/audit/ and RIPE Document: "RIPE NCC Consistency and Auditing Activity" at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/auditing.html As you already know, IP Addresses are not to be considered property as stated in RIPE Document:" Charging by Local Internet Registries": http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ripe-152.html Again, thank you for bringing this to our attention. The RIPE NCC will look into the matter and contact the LIR in question. For any other issues of this kind, please write to <lir-help(a)ripe.net> . Kind regards, Nurani -- +------------------------------------+ | Nurani Nimpuno | | Internet Address Policy Manager | | RIPE Network Co-ordination Centre | | http://www.ripe.net | +------------------------------------+ Bogdan Surdu <tim(a)rdsnet.ro> writes: * * Hi, * * I'm working for a ISP in Romania which is also a LIR. The biggest LIR in * Romania RNC (ro.rnc) received a /15 PA block from RIPE last month. They * are selling prefixes (yes selling, they charge different amounts for differe * nt * space: $50 for a /28 up to $230 for a /24) to almost anyone who wants IPs, * even they are not connected to RNC. Basically they sell the PA space as * PI, since they are not advertising the PA block and the prefixes are * announced in Internet by other ISPs. * 80.96/15 is not the only block sold as PI space, they have many PA * blocks distributed to customers connected to other ISPs (for example our * customers have about 60 * /24 prefixes from 217.156/17 PA block allocated * to RNC). * What can we do to stop this practice? * * * inetnum: 80.96.0.0 - 80.97.255.255 * netname: RO-RNC-20010705 * descr: National Institute for R|&D in Informatics * descr: Provider Local Registry * country: RO * admin-c: ES16 * tech-c: CH7396-RIPE * status: ALLOCATED PA * mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT * mnt-lower: AS3233-MNT * mnt-routes: AS3233-MNT * changed: hostmaster(a)ripe.net 20010705 * source: RIPE * * * -- * Bogdan Surdu * * Romania Data Systems S.A. * E-mail: tim(a)rdsnet.ro * Tel: +40 1 30 10 850 * Fax: +40 1 30 10 851 * * ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- * Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If * you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for * delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this * message to anyone. In such a case, you should destroy this message and * kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail. * * *

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selling PA as PI
by Bogdan Surdu 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Hi, I'm working for a ISP in Romania which is also a LIR. The biggest LIR in Romania RNC (ro.rnc) received a /15 PA block from RIPE last month. They are selling prefixes (yes selling, they charge different amounts for different space: $50 for a /28 up to $230 for a /24) to almost anyone who wants IPs, even they are not connected to RNC. Basically they sell the PA space as PI, since they are not advertising the PA block and the prefixes are announced in Internet by other ISPs. 80.96/15 is not the only block sold as PI space, they have many PA blocks distributed to customers connected to other ISPs (for example our customers have about 60 * /24 prefixes from 217.156/17 PA block allocated to RNC). What can we do to stop this practice? inetnum: 80.96.0.0 - 80.97.255.255 netname: RO-RNC-20010705 descr: National Institute for R|&D in Informatics descr: Provider Local Registry country: RO admin-c: ES16 tech-c: CH7396-RIPE status: ALLOCATED PA mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT mnt-lower: AS3233-MNT mnt-routes: AS3233-MNT changed: hostmaster(a)ripe.net 20010705 source: RIPE -- Bogdan Surdu Romania Data Systems S.A. E-mail: tim(a)rdsnet.ro Tel: +40 1 30 10 850 Fax: +40 1 30 10 851 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such a case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply e-mail.

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Re: One question about RIPE
by Nurani Nimpuno 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Hi Andreas, I'll try to shed some light on this. First of all. There are no forms needed for routing addresses. Only if you are *requesting addresses* on behalf of your customer you need to fill in the IP request form at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/iprequestform.html Your routing decisions do not fall under RIPE NCC's responsibility. There are some recommendations however that can be found in the current Policy Document: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ir-policies-procedures.html Recommendations specific to Provider Independent (PI) and Provider Aggregatable (PA) address space are outlined in RIPE-127: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/pi-pa.html In short, a PA Assignment is a range within a larger aggregate (a PA Allocation). A PI Assignment is an address range separately assigned to an end-user. If the customer has Provider Independent address space, it is your decision whether you want to route the addresses. As for PA Address space, ISPs are recommended to make contractual agreements with their customers, clarifying that the customers are required to renumber, should they change providers. Respecting these agreements, another ISP should naturally not accept to announce their PA address range separately to the Internet. However, it is also possible to multi-home by having a PA address range announced through two providers. If the PA addresses come from ISP A's allocation, the customer would have to agree with ISP B to announce that range separately. ISP A would also have to announce the range as a more specific route together with their aggregate. I hope this clarified the issue. If you have any further questions, please don't hesitate to write to <lir-help(a)ripe.net>. Kind regards, Nurani +------------------------------------+ | Nurani Nimpuno | | Internet Address Policy Manager | | RIPE Network Co-ordination Centre | | http://www.ripe.net | +------------------------------------+ "Roehling, Andreas" <Andreas.Roehling(a)lambdanet.net> writes: * Hello, * * We have a customer that has got a range of IP addresses from one Provider * (say X) and he now would like to use these addresses via our network. * * Our sales representatives say it is possible to do * it * 1) If Provider X is OK * 2) If we have got the agreement from RIPE * * Is it correct ? * * Would you know which RIPE's form would be used then? * * Thanks * * Andreas * *

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Re: One question about RIPE
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Hi Gert, >PI ("provider independent") address space - this could theoretically >be used. You do not have to ask the old ISP or RIPE for permission. You >just register the routes in the RIPE database, ask the old ISP to >stop announcing them, and start announcing them via BGP. PI space has >other disadvantages, though, like "much harder to debug if some goal >in the Internet cannot be reached", so we usually recommend to the >customer to return his PI space to RIPE and accept PI space from us ^^ I guess this should be "PA" here !? ______________/ >(unless the PI block is very large and the customer network so complex >that it would make renumbering too hard). Cheers, Wilfried. _________________________________:_____________________________________ Wilfried Woeber : e-mail: Woeber(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at UniVie Computer Center - ACOnet : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33 Universitaetsstrasse 7 : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140 A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : RIPE-DB: WW144, PGP keyID 0xF0ACB369 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A catholic church ad sign near Maryborough, QLD:"Where Miracles Happen"

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Re: One question about RIPE
by Denesh Bhabuta 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Andreas At 08:40 02/08/2001, Roehling, Andreas wrote: >We have a customer that has got a range of IP addresses from one Provider >(say X) and he now would like to use these addresses via our network. >Our sales representatives say it is possible to do >it >1) If Provider X is OK >2) If we have got the agreement from RIPE >Is it correct ? This is only correct if the customer is using PI space. If the other provider has assigned PA space to the customer, then they will have to get a new set of addresses from you and renumber their network when they start a service with you. If the customer does have PI space from the other provider then you have to consider the size of the address space the customer is bringing in and whether it is worth *your* effort to route that size of block (say if the customer has a /24) through your network and whether it would be beneficial to the customer. HTH Regards Denesh

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One question about RIPE
by Roehling, Andreas 03 Aug '01

03 Aug '01

Hello, We have a customer that has got a range of IP addresses from one Provider (say X) and he now would like to use these addresses via our network. Our sales representatives say it is possible to do it 1) If Provider X is OK 2) If we have got the agreement from RIPE Is it correct ? Would you know which RIPE's form would be used then? Thanks Andreas

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