February 1998 - lir-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 18 Feb '98

18 Feb '98

>If it will be decided that the best solution to serve Russian speaking >community is to create separate RIR (istead of employing some Russian >speaking hostmasters at RIPE NCC, creating separate list like >hostmaster-ru(a)ripe.net and so on), While it's probably a good idea to continue the RIPE NCC tradition of employing staff from different regions and with diverse linguistic background, I do *not* agree that "splitting" the RIPE NCC along the lines of language(s) is useful. Btw, this statement is not to be seen as specifically aiming at the Russian language! The very same point holds true for say German or French or Spanish. What we want to preserve across the whole Internet and in particular amongst the registries, is exchange of information, sharing of knowledge and harmonisation of procedures. In the Internet of today, we happen to use the English language for that purpose. (...discussing the reasons for that is probably outside the scope of this discussion :-). Wilfried. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilfried Woeber : e-mail: Woeber(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at Computer Center - ACOnet : Vienna University : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33 Universitaetsstrasse 7 : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140 A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : RIPE-DB (&NIC) Handle: WW144 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
by Sergey A. Mukhin 18 Feb '98

18 Feb '98

>>>>> "S" == Sergey Gulchuck <goo(a)botik.lucky.net> writes: S> To: lir-wg(a)ripe.net S> Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:39:39 +0200 (EET) >> Many people of ex-USSR countries speak Russian and ( for now ) not so >> many speak English ( alas! ). Thus language selection matters something too. S> I'm wondering why Moscovites try to decide something for other people. Well, I am sorry -- that is an obviuos prerogative of Ukrainians ;-) I understand pretty well you do not wish be served by Moscow. I cannot understand why so much words out of that ? Who insists on it ? Any people decide most ( or all ) of their own problems theirselves. But sometimes it is better to unite to get the solutions easier. If Ukraine does not want - nobody can insist. Why are you SO bothered by the fact somebody else wants ? S> Soviet Union is history now for more than 6 (!) years. During this period S> there emerged new generation of people graduated from high schools etc. S> Let's make registry for "former Roma Empire", why not? S> We must look into future, not past. Yes, thanks God, USSR is already a history. But even now we still can see some consequences of the Roma Empire. And as nobody can change history of the past we just have to take into consideration the facts no matter if we like them or not. S> Regards, S> Sergey Gulchuck, S> ISP LuckyNet S> Kyiv, Ukraine -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergey A. Mukhin | violet(a)rosnet.net Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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inetnum aggregation
by zsako＠banknet.net 17 Feb '98

17 Feb '98

Dear all, I happened to see a strange assignment made by a LIR to a customer. The strange thing about this was that it was made on the same day (by the same person), however contained 15 inetnums of a /24 each, although it could have been assigned as two inetnums only (two ranges of addresses). Although I feel it is quite clear from ripe-159 that each inetnum object should contain a *range* of addresses (and one should try to register only one inetnum for a request - which is BTW not always possible - but all examples are given in this sense), it would be good to state somewhere that aggregation _is_a_goal_ in case of the inetnum objects too. I came to this conclusion (that it is worth mentioning this) after the respective registrar, after I mentioned this problem to them, asked me whether it makes any difference if they aggregate or not... :( Regards, Janos

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None
by Igor Bronnikov 16 Feb '98

16 Feb '98

unsubscribe all

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Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
by Sergey A. Mukhin 15 Feb '98

15 Feb '98

>>>>> "A" == Alex Wilansky <aw(a)eunet.ch> writes: A> To: violet(a)rosnet.net (Sergey A. Mukhin) A> Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 12:54:21 +0100 (MET) A> Cc: edd(a)aic.net, hostmaster(a)taide.net, ncc(a)ripe.net, lir-wg(a)ripe.net, aw(a)eunet.ch (Alex Wilansky) >> Sergey A. Mukhin writes: >> >> Why Luxembourgers doesn't ask RIPE to be served in Leutzebuergesch?... >> >> Anyone from Grand Duchy? >> >> >> A> No, but as a Russian (albeit working in another country) I see no reason to not A> insist on English as the workinglanguage. It's the lingua franca for the A> internet, most operating syststems are based on some form of english A> shorthand for the commands, and frankly, at least up until theend of the A> communist era, there were more English language teachers per capita in A> Russia than there were in the U.S. (and most of them were better, too.....) >> >> Quite right, Alex. It is okay about Moscow, St Petersbourg and some other >> cities. And we are connecting other regions where it is not so. Think >> it would be better if people all over the world spoke the only language, >> but is it possible? Hope it would change ( English language in Russia and >> ex-USSR countries ) but God knows when. And things would run better if >> we have office speaking English to all the world and Russian to people >> which have not learned English good enough yet. >> >> A> Here in Switzerland, not matter what, you have to speak English in order to A> deal effectively with our verious clients and admnistrate a our part of a A> network which uses English as the de-facto language. Sure, we use German, A> French and Italian daily with our customers, but on the international admin A> level, English is it. No question, no argumaents. Granted, as a lingua A> franca English is relatively young, but I prefer it over Latin and Greek. A> Who knows what will emerge as the next international language but the end A> of the next century ( I suspect it will be Chinese), but it is not important. A> English is the administrative languag of the net, just as it is for aviation. A> So be it. Most people can quickly learn enough bad English to be understood A> and to understand, and, coming from Russian, I can't say the same for that A> deeply beautiful and nuanced language. To add to this point, while Russian A> is of course easier for a Moscow-base office, for the Russians, if it is A> admistrating the CIS or some version of slavic blocks, don't you think that A> many of the other slavic nations will be offended by being forced to use A> Russian. (In my dealings with the Poles recently, although they grudgingly A> permitted me to use Russian from time to time, they were truly appreciative A> by my refusal to do so, since I had no wish to offend them. Same for the A> Ukranians.) There are many sensitivities here.... English is more neutral........ A> Lots of good reasons to keep English in place... First, I am sorry if I did not express it clear. I meant just the mere fact a Moscow office would be useful for Russian speaking people who do not know English well enough yet. It will be at least bilingual, and I never thought of Russian as a replacement for English ( at least because it must be difficult enough to learn ). Russian and think some other languages would be just extra "features" of that office while traditional English will be in use where possible. On the other hand ( no matter if we want that or not ) most of people in FSU countries know their native language and Russian, not English and they will need some time for accomodation. Why not make things easier for them? A> Aleks -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergey A. Mukhin | violet(a)rosnet.net Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
by Mike Norris 14 Feb '98

14 Feb '98

> > IMO, every LIR is free to decide about the RIR they want to be served, > and it could happen, that LIRs at the same country will be served by > different RIRs. > OK, but what do you feel about the corollary: is a RIR free to choose any LIR that seeks service, or is it constrained to serve only those within a certain (or sometimes uncertain) geographical area? Before answering, remember what the E in RIPE, the A in ARIN and the AP in APNIC stand for. Regards. Mike Norris

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Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
by Sergey A. Mukhin 14 Feb '98

14 Feb '98

>>>>> "A" == Alex Wilansky <aw(a)eunet.ch> writes: A> To: edd(a)aic.net (Edgar Danielyan) A> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:25:07 +0100 (MET) A> Cc: hostmaster(a)taide.net, ncc(a)ripe.net, lir-wg(a)ripe.net >> Why Luxembourgers doesn't ask RIPE to be served in Leutzebuergesch?... >> Anyone from Grand Duchy? >> A> No, but as a Russian (albeit working in another country) I see no reason to not A> insist on English as the workinglanguage. It's the lingua franca for the A> internet, most operating syststems are based on some form of english A> shorthand for the commands, and frankly, at least up until theend of the A> communist era, there were more English language teachers per capita in A> Russia than there were in the U.S. (and most of them were better, too.....) Quite right, Alex. It is okay about Moscow, St Petersbourg and some other cities. And we are connecting other regions where it is not so. Think it would be better if people all over the world spoke the only language, but is it possible? Hope it would change ( English language in Russia and ex-USSR countries ) but God knows when. And things would run better if we have office speaking English to all the world and Russian to people which have not learned English good enough yet. A> Aleks Sergey -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergey A. Mukhin | violet(a)rosnet.net Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
by Sergey A. Mukhin 13 Feb '98

13 Feb '98

>>>>> "E" == Edgar Danielyan <edd(a)aic.net> writes: E> To: phk(a)critter.freebsd.dk (Poul-Henning Kamp) E> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:00:23 +0400 (GMT) E> Cc: lir-wg(a)ripe.net >> The discussion has dragged on far too long, and it must be about now >> that we can reach some kind of conclusions: E> And hopefully finish it! >> 1. Various people/countries/ethnic groups from the former red block >> countries have very great distrust in each other. Far not all of them, if you take a look at that matter. There still is much in common after all that. E> Yes. And there are reasons - no need to talk about them here and now, but E> there are sufficient reasons. >> Lets have a show of hands, who couldn't live with this, and why ? E> Confess, Moscow. E> Quocunque jeceris stabit. E> -edd -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergey A. Mukhin | violet(a)rosnet.net Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
by Sergey A. Mukhin 13 Feb '98

13 Feb '98

>>>>> "E" == Edgar Danielyan <edd(a)aic.net> writes: E> To: woeber(a)cc.univie.ac.at E> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:56:50 +0400 (GMT) E> Cc: hostmaster(a)taide.net, ncc(a)ripe.net, lir-wg(a)ripe.net >> >If it will be decided that the best solution to serve Russian speaking >> >community is to create separate RIR (istead of employing some Russian >> >speaking hostmasters at RIPE NCC, creating separate list like >> >hostmaster-ru(a)ripe.net and so on), E> If the so-called Russian speaking community is going to be a part of present-day E> Internet, that community has to learn English. E> Good it or bad, English is a kind of "international language", especially on E> the net. Sure. But it will take time. Rather long time. E> Why Luxembourgers doesn't ask RIPE to be served in Leutzebuergesch?... E> Anyone from Grand Duchy? >> and harmonisation of procedures. In the Internet of today, we happen to >> use the English language for that purpose. >> (...discussing the reasons for that is probably >> outside the scope of this discussion :-). E> Edgar -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sergey A. Mukhin | violet(a)rosnet.net Network Administrator | http://violet.rosnet.net/ Russian Telecommunications Network | Tel: + 7 095 206 62 15 Moscow, Russia | + 7 095 755 85 88 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ * If you can't learn do it well learn to enjoy doing it badly. * ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [ripe-167] Impressions brought from Moscow meeting
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 12 Feb '98

12 Feb '98

>P.S. And some more. The first stage - RIPE NCC office. If after a year >it'll be only Russia that is served by this office, the project will be >either stopped or the status of RIPE NCC office will be fixed without >further development. Excuse me? Looks like a bit of confusion or your end of the rope.... Wilfried. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilfried Woeber : e-mail: Woeber(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at Computer Center - ACOnet : Vienna University : Tel: +43 1 4277 - 140 33 Universitaetsstrasse 7 : Fax: +43 1 4277 - 9 140 A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : RIPE-DB (&NIC) Handle: WW144 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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