November 1997 - lir-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Undeliverable Message
by MAILER-DAEMON-VINES01＠vines.is.belgacom.be 13 Nov '97

13 Nov '97

To: SMTP_GATEWAY@IS.2624225@BELGACOM[<lir-wg(a)ripe.net>] Cc: Subject: Re: ripe-167 Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM error codes. VNM3042: piet.spiessens@MASTER.PER@BELGACOM VNM3042 -- NAME NOT FOUND Mail cannot deliver the message for one of the following reasons: the appropriate StreetTalk is not available; the recipient's user name was deleted; the recipient's name was not entered correctly. Verify the accuracy of the name entered. If the name you entered is a user name, check to see if the user was deleted. If the name is correct and the user exists, check the connections between the recipient and the sender. You may see this error if you send a message to a list, but one of the names on the list is incorrect or invalid. Anytime a user is deleted, that user name must be removed from all lists that contain the name. ---------------------- Original Message Follows ---------------------- ------- Forwarded Message Received: (qmail 4673 invoked from network); 12 Nov 1997 19:52:28 -0000 Received: from ncc.ripe.net (193.0.0.129) by postman.ripe.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 1997 19:52:28 -0000 Received: from AlphaSite.ukrpack.net by ncc.ripe.net with SMTP id AA27124 (5.65a/NCC-2.41); Wed, 12 Nov 1997 20:52:27 +0100 Received: from sasha.ukrpack.net (amilutin.ukrpack.net [195.230.150.72]) by Alp haSite.ukrpack.net (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with ESMTP id TAA27982 for <local-ir(a)ripe.net>; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:52:01 GMT Return-Path: <amilutin(a)ukrpack.net> Message-Id: <199711121952.TAA27982(a)AlphaSite.ukrpack.net> From: "amilutin" <amilutin(a)ukrpack.net> To: <local-ir(a)ripe.net> Subject: Re: ripe-167 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 21:46:26 +0200 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With regard to the language; mostly dealing with the Registry comes down to a sending a template which is, if properly filled in, answered by a short message. Other then that you very seldom need any language at all. If the language is still a problem then RosNIIROS would have to produce Russian language set of documents and templates and further Russian language set of standards, something like RIPN167 instead of RIPE167. What then about the entries in databases which are used, by many organizations worldwide as the information source for their routing policy. So it looks like the usage of English is still inevitable. Though, translations of documents with explanations would definitely be of some help for some administrators of newly created ISPs. Kind Regards, Alexander Milutin, INFOCOM, Kiev, Ukraine ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Re: ripe-167
by NCC local-ir list Moderator 13 Nov '97

13 Nov '97

------- Forwarded Message Received: (qmail 4673 invoked from network); 12 Nov 1997 19:52:28 -0000 Received: from ncc.ripe.net (193.0.0.129) by postman.ripe.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 1997 19:52:28 -0000 Received: from AlphaSite.ukrpack.net by ncc.ripe.net with SMTP id AA27124 (5.65a/NCC-2.41); Wed, 12 Nov 1997 20:52:27 +0100 Received: from sasha.ukrpack.net (amilutin.ukrpack.net [195.230.150.72]) by Alp haSite.ukrpack.net (8.6.8.1/SCA-6.6) with ESMTP id TAA27982 for <local-ir(a)ripe.net>; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 19:52:01 GMT Return-Path: <amilutin(a)ukrpack.net> Message-Id: <199711121952.TAA27982(a)AlphaSite.ukrpack.net> From: "amilutin" <amilutin(a)ukrpack.net> To: <local-ir(a)ripe.net> Subject: Re: ripe-167 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 21:46:26 +0200 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit With regard to the language; mostly dealing with the Registry comes down to a sending a template which is, if properly filled in, answered by a short message. Other then that you very seldom need any language at all. If the language is still a problem then RosNIIROS would have to produce Russian language set of documents and templates and further Russian language set of standards, something like RIPN167 instead of RIPE167. What then about the entries in databases which are used, by many organizations worldwide as the information source for their routing policy. So it looks like the usage of English is still inevitable. Though, translations of documents with explanations would definitely be of some help for some administrators of newly created ISPs. Kind Regards, Alexander Milutin, INFOCOM, Kiev, Ukraine ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Re: ripe-167
by NCC local-ir list Moderator 12 Nov '97

12 Nov '97

------- Forwarded Message Received: (qmail 27315 invoked from network); 12 Nov 1997 12:56:27 -0000 Received: from ncc.ripe.net (193.0.0.129) by postman.ripe.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 1997 12:56:27 -0000 Received: from ns.east.ru by ncc.ripe.net with SMTP id AA18906 (5.65a/NCC-2.41); Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:51:41 +0100 Received: from ish.east.ru (ish(a)ish.east.ru [195.170.32.35]) by ns.east.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5/BD2) with SMTP id PAA01540; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:50:57 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199711121250.PAA01540(a)ns.east.ru> Reply-To: "Ilya Shulman" <ish(a)east.ru> From: "Ilya Shulman" <ish(a)east.ru> To: <local-ir(a)ripn.net>, <local-ir(a)ripe.net>, <ncc(a)ripn.net>, <ncc(a)ripe.net> Subject: Re: [local-ir] Re: ripe-167 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:53:14 +0300 X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 - -----Original Message----- From: Edgar Danielyan <edd(a)computer.org> To: alex(a)relcom.EU.net <alex(a)relcom.EU.net> Cc: local-ir(a)ripn.net <local-ir(a)ripn.net>; plat(a)ripn.net <plat(a)ripn.net>; stesin(a)gu.net <stesin(a)gu.net>; Mirjam.Kuehne(a)ripe.net <Mirjam.Kuehne(a)ripe.net>; Daniel.Karrenberg(a)ripe.net <Daniel.Karrenberg(a)ripe.net>; k13(a)nikhef.nl <k13(a)nikhef.nl>; postel(a)isi.edu <postel(a)isi.edu>; ncc(a)ripe.net <ncc(a)ripe.net>; hostmaster(a)ripe.net <hostmaster(a)ripe.net>; local-ir(a)ripe.net <local-ir(a)ripe.net>; lir-wg(a)ripe.net <lir-wg(a)ripe.net>; ncc(a)ripn.net <ncc(a)ripn.net> Date: 12 NOQBRQ 1997 G. 15:20 Subject: Re: [local-ir] Re: ripe-167 >Although I don't completely agree, I'd suggest RIPE to have someone >who does speak Russian to serve the needs of Russian-speaking registries >from the exSU. It may not help, because some time you may need to do smth immidiately and in this case it's really better to have local office if properly working. >Regarding payment in roubles - I don't think this is worth to >be discussed, because no country in the "CIS" has "hard" currency, and >it will be unethical to pay RIPE in roubles or any other CIS currency - >you understand me :-) >I also >had problems paying in ECU, but RIPE now accepts USD, so we have no problems >here... IMHO, of course, The problem is not in ECU/USD payment whatsever. The problem with payment abroad is due to local financial and economical regulations. You need to open currency account, you need to do lot of paperwork to open it and make currency transfer. As far as most Russian ISP working locally and do not need currency account for theit business it's kinda hard for them to open currency account for just 1 transfer/year. Really it is possible to pay with credit cards or from offshore company but not every ISP has possibility to do that. But this only one of the local issue. So once more, local registry ( if properly build and working ) will void lot of local problems. As to the CIS wide, exUSSR wide issues, I think that any ISP either in Russia or in ex-whateveryouwant (CIS || USSR ) region should have the right to choose between RIPE or local IR. At least for the first period of time, which should be longer then enough to build proper infrastructure. What will we do after the end of this period. Move to IPv6 or IPv8? There will be other issues to solve. May be Moon will decide to have local ir ;) ish - ------ Ilya Shulman ish(a)east.ru +7-095-956-4951 ISH-RIPN East Connection ISP, Moscow, Russia. http://www.east.ru ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Re: ripe-167
by NCC local-ir list Moderator 12 Nov '97

12 Nov '97

------- Forwarded Message Received: (qmail 27306 invoked from network); 12 Nov 1997 12:55:41 -0000 Received: from ncc.ripe.net (193.0.0.129) by postman.ripe.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 1997 12:55:41 -0000 Received: from ns.east.ru by ncc.ripe.net with SMTP id AA19330 (5.65a/NCC-2.41); Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:55:28 +0100 Received: from ish.east.ru (ish(a)ish.east.ru [195.170.32.35]) by ns.east.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5/BD2) with SMTP id PAA01878; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:55:08 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199711121255.PAA01878(a)ns.east.ru> Reply-To: "Ilya Shulman" <ish(a)east.ru> From: "Ilya Shulman" <ish(a)east.ru> To: <local-ir(a)ripn.net>, <local-ir(a)ripe.net> Cc: <ncc(a)ripe.net>, <ncc(a)ripn.net> Subject: Re: [local-ir] Re: ripe-167 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:57:25 +0300 X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 - -----Original Message----- From: Alex P. Rudnev <alex(a)relcom.EU.net> To: local-ir(a)ripn.net <local-ir(a)ripn.net> Cc: Alexei Platonov <plat(a)ripn.net>; stesin(a)gu.net <stesin(a)gu.net>; Mirjam.Kuehne(a)ripe.net <Mirjam.Kuehne(a)ripe.net>; Daniel.Karrenberg(a)ripe.net <Daniel.Karrenberg(a)ripe.net>; k13(a)nikhef.nl <k13(a)nikhef.nl>; postel(a)isi.edu <postel(a)isi.edu>; ncc(a)ripe.net <ncc(a)ripe.net>; hostmaster(a)ripe.net <hostmaster(a)ripe.net>; local-ir(a)ripe.net <local-ir(a)ripe.net>; local-ir(a)ripn.net <local-ir(a)ripn.net>; lir-wg(a)ripe.net <lir-wg(a)ripe.net>; ncc(a)ripn.net <ncc(a)ripn.net> Date: 12 NOQBRQ 1997 G. 15:20 Subject: Re: [local-ir] Re: ripe-167 >*** A Regional IP Registry for Russia and CIS Project *** >It's amazing why someone who want to have the deal with the Amsterdam >is against idea to have _additional_ point of service. >And why don't you ask _we must be served by InterNIC directly_? We all know that after the trial period it is purposed to have a _single_ point of service for all of the ISP working in region. That is one of the reason of the hot discussion in local-ir(a)ripn.net > >RIR (call it by any name) MUST be in suck place that: no "suck" place please ;)))) >- it's easy to achieve (by plane, train etc) for anyone who are served >(no visas, no extra expansive hotels, etc); please explain why in the hell you may need anything more than a phone call to IR office. ish - ------ Ilya Shulman ish(a)east.ru +7-095-956-4951 ISH-RIPN East Connection ISP, Moscow, Russia. http://www.east.ru ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Re: ripe-167
by NCC local-ir list Moderator 12 Nov '97

12 Nov '97

------- Forwarded Message Received: (qmail 27135 invoked from network); 12 Nov 1997 12:30:05 -0000 Received: from ncc.ripe.net (193.0.0.129) by postman.ripe.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 1997 12:30:05 -0000 Received: from postman.ripe.net by ncc.ripe.net with SMTP id AA15879 (5.65a/NCC-2.41); Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:30:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 27119 invoked from network); 12 Nov 1997 12:29:50 -0000 Received: from ns.east.ru (195.170.32.18) by postman.ripe.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 1997 12:29:50 -0000 Received: from ish.east.ru (ish(a)ish.east.ru [195.170.32.35]) by ns.east.ru (8.8.5/8.8.5/BD2) with SMTP id PAA26974; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:27:02 +0300 (MSK) Message-Id: <199711121227.PAA26974(a)ns.east.ru> Reply-To: "Ilya Shulman" <ish(a)east.ru> From: "Ilya Shulman" <ish(a)east.ru> To: <local-ir(a)ripn.net> Cc: <ncc(a)ripe.net>, <local-ir(a)ripe.net>, <ncc(a)ripn.net>, <local-ir(a)ripn.net> Subject: Re: [local-ir] Re: ripe-167 Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:29:20 +0300 X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 I cut off some of the CCs cause I think that's ncc(a)rip[n,e].net and ncc(a)[rip[n|e].net will be sufficient. - -----Original Message----- From: Alex P. Rudnev <alex(a)relcom.EU.net> To: local-ir(a)ripn.net <local-ir(a)ripn.net> Cc: plat(a)ripn.net <plat(a)ripn.net>; stesin(a)gu.net <stesin(a)gu.net>; Mirjam.Kuehne(a)ripe.net <Mirjam.Kuehne(a)ripe.net>; Daniel.Karrenberg(a)ripe.net <Daniel.Karrenberg(a)ripe.net>; k13(a)nikhef.nl <k13(a)nikhef.nl>; postel(a)isi.edu <postel(a)isi.edu>; ncc(a)ripe.net <ncc(a)ripe.net>; hostmaster(a)ripe.net <hostmaster(a)ripe.net>; local-ir(a)ripe.net <local-ir(a)ripe.net>; local-ir(a)ripn.net <local-ir(a)ripn.net>; lir-wg(a)ripe.net <lir-wg(a)ripe.net>; ncc(a)ripn.net <ncc(a)ripn.net> Date: 12 NOQBRQ 1997 G. 15:10 Subject: Re: [local-ir] Re: ripe-167 >I do not insist to have there independent LIR at once - but at least you >must have some office there, with people speaking in English and Russion, >and bank transferese available in Roubles. And there must be someone in >Amsterdam who represents our interests, anyway. as a matter of fact now any ISP in Russia has the right to choose between serving in RIPE or in ROSNIIROS. If you choose RIPN (ROSNIIROS) , you pay more but in roubles, you wait longer (time differences? heh ) but you have local number in Moscow, russian speaking person etc. And ROSNIIROS handle all problems with RIPE. In other words if you choose RIPN instead of RIPE you have all the benefits. However you may choose to receive services directly from RIPE. And then you pay directly to RIPE, talk directly to RIPE. Have a trip to Amsterdam if you wish. I do agree that there are lotsa local problems and it will be better if somebody handles it locally. Your right to choose (c) CNN ;) - ------ Ilya Shulman ish(a)east.ru +7-095-956-4951 ISH-RIPN East Connection ISP, Moscow, Russia. http://www.east.ru ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Re: Cost of links to US
by Miroslaw Jaworski 12 Nov '97

12 Nov '97

On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Carsten Schiefner wrote: > Alexandre Provost wrote: > > > > C'�tait quand m�me bien tant� ! > > koennte man hier mal auf englisch diskutieren, bitte? ;-P Mit groBe Lust :) MJ ___________________________________________________________________________ Miroslaw.Jaworski(a)ikp.com.pl (Psyborg) MJ102-RIPE ATM S.A. - IKP division WAN/UNIX adm

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Re: Cost of links to US
by Stig Bull 12 Nov '97

12 Nov '97

At 10:37 12.11.97 +0100, Peter B. Juul wrote: >On Wed, 12 Nov 1997, Carsten Schiefner wrote: > >> > C'était quand même bien tanté ! >> >> koennte man hier mal auf englisch diskutieren, bitte? ;-P > >Nej, hvorfor det? Det går da meget godt... :-) Næh. La oss holde oss til Engelsk. Stick to English on this mailinglist, please. This thread just causes unwanted noise for many of us, and could result in some of us missing useful information. -- Med vennlig hilsen / Kind regards Stig Bull IP-drift Telenor Nextel AS email privat: stig(a)undernet.org email jobb: sb(a)online.no Tlf sentralbord: 22 77 19 00

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Re: Cost of links to US
by Alexandre Provost 12 Nov '97

12 Nov '97

C'était quand même bien tanté ! Alexandre PROVOST Directeur Technique Groupe Ecritel France Phone +33 (0)1 40 61 2000 3, Rue Pondichery Fax +33 (0)1 40 61 2001 F-75015 Paris Internet http://www.ecritel.fr FRANCE E-Mail AProvost(a)Ecritel.Fr AS 8304 X-NCC-RegID fr.ecritel, AS8304 -----Message d'origine----- De : Gilles HUGUENIN <gilles(a)easynet.fr> À : lir-wg(a)ripe.net <lir-wg(a)ripe.net> Date : lundi 10 novembre 1997 14:26 Objet : Re: Cost of links to US >un peu confidentiel comme info ;-) > >-----Message d'origine----- >De : NCC local-ir list Moderator <lir-mod(a)ripe.net> >@ : lir-wg(a)ripe.net <lir-wg(a)ripe.net> >Cc : Hank Nussbacher <HANK(a)taunivm.tau.ac.il> >Date : lundi 10 novembre 1997 13:04 >Objet : Cost of links to US > > >> >>------- Forwarded Message >> >>Received: (qmail 615 invoked from network); 10 Nov 1997 07:58:13 -0000 >>Received: from ncc.ripe.net (193.0.0.129) >> by postman.ripe.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 1997 07:58:13 -0000 >>Received: from taunivm.tau.ac.il by ncc.ripe.net with SMTP >> id AA23238 (5.65a/NCC-2.41); Mon, 10 Nov 1997 08:58:11 +0100 >>Message-Id: <9711100758.AA23238(a)ncc.ripe.net> >>Received: from VM.TAU.AC.IL by VM.TAU.AC.IL (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) >> with BSMTP id 6715; Mon, 10 Nov 97 09:57:16 IST >>Received: from VM.TAU.AC.IL (NJE origin HANK@TAUNIVM) by VM.TAU.AC.IL >(LMail V1 >>.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9621; Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:57:16 +0200 >>Date: Mon, 10 Nov 97 09:55:40 IST >>From: Hank Nussbacher <HANK(a)VM.TAU.AC.IL> >>Subject: Cost of links to US >>To: local-ir(a)ripe.net >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: Text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT >> >>For a lecture I am preparing I am in need of some costs. How much >>do you pay (can be in local currency) for a T1/E1 or T3/E3 line to the >>USA. Plz specify via which carrier, and what cable if possible. >> >>Thanks, >>Hank >> >> >>------- End of Forwarded Message >> >> >> >

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Re: Cost of links to US
by Gilles HUGUENIN 10 Nov '97

10 Nov '97

un peu confidentiel comme info ;-) -----Message d'origine----- De : NCC local-ir list Moderator <lir-mod(a)ripe.net> @ : lir-wg(a)ripe.net <lir-wg(a)ripe.net> Cc : Hank Nussbacher <HANK(a)taunivm.tau.ac.il> Date : lundi 10 novembre 1997 13:04 Objet : Cost of links to US > >------- Forwarded Message > >Received: (qmail 615 invoked from network); 10 Nov 1997 07:58:13 -0000 >Received: from ncc.ripe.net (193.0.0.129) > by postman.ripe.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 1997 07:58:13 -0000 >Received: from taunivm.tau.ac.il by ncc.ripe.net with SMTP > id AA23238 (5.65a/NCC-2.41); Mon, 10 Nov 1997 08:58:11 +0100 >Message-Id: <9711100758.AA23238(a)ncc.ripe.net> >Received: from VM.TAU.AC.IL by VM.TAU.AC.IL (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) > with BSMTP id 6715; Mon, 10 Nov 97 09:57:16 IST >Received: from VM.TAU.AC.IL (NJE origin HANK@TAUNIVM) by VM.TAU.AC.IL (LMail V1 >.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9621; Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:57:16 +0200 >Date: Mon, 10 Nov 97 09:55:40 IST >From: Hank Nussbacher <HANK(a)VM.TAU.AC.IL> >Subject: Cost of links to US >To: local-ir(a)ripe.net >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: Text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT > >For a lecture I am preparing I am in need of some costs. How much >do you pay (can be in local currency) for a T1/E1 or T3/E3 line to the >USA. Plz specify via which carrier, and what cable if possible. > >Thanks, >Hank > > >------- End of Forwarded Message > > >

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Undeliverable Message
by MAILER-DAEMON-VINES01＠vines.is.belgacom.be 10 Nov '97

10 Nov '97

To: SMTP_GATEWAY@IS.2624225@BELGACOM[<lir-wg(a)ripe.net>] Cc: SMTP_GATEWAY@IS.2624225@BELGACOM["Hank Nussbacher" <HANK(a)taunivm.tau.ac.il>] Subject: Cost of links to US Message not delivered to recipients below. Press F1 for help with VNM error codes. VNM3042: piet.spiessens@MASTER.PER@BELGACOM VNM3042 -- NAME NOT FOUND Mail cannot deliver the message for one of the following reasons: the appropriate StreetTalk is not available; the recipient's user name was deleted; the recipient's name was not entered correctly. Verify the accuracy of the name entered. If the name you entered is a user name, check to see if the user was deleted. If the name is correct and the user exists, check the connections between the recipient and the sender. You may see this error if you send a message to a list, but one of the names on the list is incorrect or invalid. Anytime a user is deleted, that user name must be removed from all lists that contain the name. ---------------------- Original Message Follows ---------------------- ------- Forwarded Message Received: (qmail 615 invoked from network); 10 Nov 1997 07:58:13 -0000 Received: from ncc.ripe.net (193.0.0.129) by postman.ripe.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 1997 07:58:13 -0000 Received: from taunivm.tau.ac.il by ncc.ripe.net with SMTP id AA23238 (5.65a/NCC-2.41); Mon, 10 Nov 1997 08:58:11 +0100 Message-Id: <9711100758.AA23238(a)ncc.ripe.net> Received: from VM.TAU.AC.IL by VM.TAU.AC.IL (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with BSMTP id 6715; Mon, 10 Nov 97 09:57:16 IST Received: from VM.TAU.AC.IL (NJE origin HANK@TAUNIVM) by VM.TAU.AC.IL (LMail V1 .2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 9621; Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:57:16 +0200 Date: Mon, 10 Nov 97 09:55:40 IST From: Hank Nussbacher <HANK(a)VM.TAU.AC.IL> Subject: Cost of links to US To: local-ir(a)ripe.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT For a lecture I am preparing I am in need of some costs. How much do you pay (can be in local currency) for a T1/E1 or T3/E3 line to the USA. Plz specify via which carrier, and what cable if possible. Thanks, Hank ------- End of Forwarded Message

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