Thought for World IPv6 Day
Hi, I'm thinking that in order for maximizing productive yield of World IPv6 Day as IPv6-believers would like, laying out the relevant steps to take for ISPs, content providers and individual users in a pedagogical manner could be cool (i.e highly useful). I'm imagining something similar to what Google did with http://www.google.com/googlebooks/chrome/index.html for Chrome. I have no idea who would be in charge to bring that about, or if it is at all possible to achieve in the few days left. I hope others are better suited to answer this. Cheers, Martin
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Martin Millnert <millnert@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm thinking that in order for maximizing productive yield of World IPv6 Day as IPv6-believers would like, laying out the relevant steps to take for ISPs, content providers and individual users in a pedagogical manner could be cool (i.e highly useful).
I think that most users don't really care about how IPv4/v6 works, they just want "the Internet" to work. This is opposed to browsers, where users should actually understand the concept of e.g., tabs, in order to use them. Advanced users can easily find technical articles about IPv6 at any time, for example (shameless self-promotion): http://www.debian-administration.org/article/655/Running_IPv6_in_practice IIRC, there was a wiki with a list of typical IPv6 brokenness in different environments (OSes, presence of a NAT etc.), but I can't find a link. Dmitri -- main(i,j){for(i=2;;i++){for(j=2;j<i;j++){if(!(i%j)){j=0;break;}}if (j){printf("%d\n",i);}}} /*Dmitri Gribenko <gribozavr@gmail.com>*/
Hi,
IIRC, there was a wiki with a list of typical IPv6 brokenness in different environments (OSes, presence of a NAT etc.), but I can't find a link.
This one? http://www.getipv6.info/index.php/Customer_problems_that_could_occur - Sander
On 17 May 2011, at 21:42, Sander Steffann wrote:
Hi,
IIRC, there was a wiki with a list of typical IPv6 brokenness in different environments (OSes, presence of a NAT etc.), but I can't find a link.
This one? http://www.getipv6.info/index.php/Customer_problems_that_could_occur
And since the Americas have their 'Day' start late afternoon on 7th June, any unexpected issues will be documented by the time we wake up on 8th.... thanks guys :) Tim
Dmitri, On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Dmitri Gribenko <gribozavr@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:49 PM, Martin Millnert <millnert@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm thinking that in order for maximizing productive yield of World IPv6 Day as IPv6-believers would like, laying out the relevant steps to take for ISPs, content providers and individual users in a pedagogical manner could be cool (i.e highly useful).
I think that most users don't really care about how IPv4/v6 works, they just want "the Internet" to work. This is opposed to browsers, where users should actually understand the concept of e.g., tabs, in order to use them. Advanced users can easily find technical articles about IPv6 at any time, for example (shameless self-promotion): http://www.debian-administration.org/article/655/Running_IPv6_in_practice
Note that I did not say the only audience of the comic would be end-users. I think it's fair to say that the depth the Chrome comic goes to is beyond what 99.999% of users care about, as well. "Normal" users would probably be pretty satisfied with a summary regarding Chrome that explained "New tabs method: independent, faster, safer and crash less.". What the comic does however is to document the product in a quite unique and IMO very effective way. Judging by how as few as 0.2% of Google's users have IPv6, I'd say it's pretty fair to say that most ISPs world-wide don't *really* care about IPv6 either, and a lot of them likely don't have a good idea how to go about bringing it up, despite a complete myriad of available (fragmented) information online. I really do think a similar effort on "IPv6" could be valuable, even if it was not completed by the first World IPv6 Day. In fact, it may be more valuable if done well, than rushed for World IPv6 day. Thanks! Cheers, Martin
Hi again Dmitri, and IPv6-wg sorry for double-post (though different content), I want to elaborate on a point Dmitri brought up. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 12:11 PM, Dmitri Gribenko <gribozavr@gmail.com> wrote:
I think that most users don't really care about how IPv4/v6 works, they just want "the Internet" to work.
I think this premise is a bit false. I can chose several ways to exemplify what I think. I will try the following: Judging by how automatic IPv6-transition methods have in the IETF now by pretty near consensus been judged in-adequate for IPv6 access, I think it's quite fair to say that the IPv4 and the IPv6 internet are two completely separate networks. At the very least the IPv4 internetwork as a whole does *not* connect to the IPv6 network. Individual hosts may via manually configured connections do so, such as you explain in your debian-administrator's article, but the network as a whole does not. They are for all intents and purposes disconnected networks. IPv6 advocates presumably advocate for IPv6 deployment in order to preserve the 'pure' end-to-end principle of the Internet. Many of us think users don't care about being behind a NAT, but another many do realize the limits this sets on applications to interact freely and how necessary and useful the principle is for the continued success of a, IMO desirable, 'prosumer' Internet of the future. My point is, if (more) end-users actually knew the benefits of IPv6 (because there are benefits (right?)), and the risks of not getting IPv6 in the future, they may well be more inclined to wish for it, which may unlock another business decision problem at service providers (no user demand). I'm not expecting 'my grandmother' to care, but I do think a good measure of success of someone explaining the difference between IPv4 exhaustion/CGN and IPv6, is that my grandmother understood the difference, *at some level*. :) (**Not** saying this is the way to do it: I do have an analogy with vehicle registration plates which works in Sweden at least, because there they are of a fixed size, [A-Z]{3}-[0-9]{3). They've been issued serially, in increasing lexicographic order, and are about to run out. All cars are required to have a unique serial number to drive on the roads. (Some old cars have been scrapped which does free up their number, but the demand is still going to surpass the supply.) Since going by bus limits your freedom where you can go on the roads, the vehicle registration agency has to figure out a way to make the plates wider. I have used this analogy on 'laymen' several times and it seems to do a good enough job. The question of perceived immediate benefits for a typical user is harder to address, because the applications that really take advantage of IPv6 are few today, but this is about the future and your freedom to not travel by bus.) So I do think, much in same way the Chrome article goes about explaining things most users did not knew about a web browser, the benefits of a IPv6 Internet over a IPv4 CGN Internet *could* be explained. Just my 0.00042 grams of gold. Cheers, Martin
participants (4)
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Dmitri Gribenko -
Martin Millnert -
Sander Steffann -
Tim Chown