May 2005 - ipv6-wg - mailman.ripe.net

[ipv6-wg@ripe.net] documenting RIPE critical infrastructure/micro allocations
by Bjoern A. Zeeb 02 Jun '05

02 Jun '05

Hi, while updating some prefix filters I started a link collection documenting the entries. I have found that other RIRs (ARIN, APNIC) have neat documentation about the critical infrastructure/micro allocations assigned but I only found two references of the Block RIPE uses for v6 IXP assignments. | ARIN Critical infrastructure, micro allocations | http://www.arin.net/reference/micro_allocations.html | APNIC Critical infrastructure, micro allocations | http://www.apnic.net/db/ranges.html For LACNIC I haven't found any assignments but following documentation: | LACNIC Critical infrastructure, micro allocations | http://lacnic.net/en/politicas/ipv6.html 5.5. IPv6 micro allocations | http://lacnic.net/documentos/politicas/micro-asignaciones_ipv6-sp.pdf For RIPE Gert's page is talking about 2001:7F8::/29 and the DB entry. | http://www.ripe.net/whois?searchtext=EU-ZZ-2001-07F8 | http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/ipv6-policy-ixp.html Could someone add documentation/web page stating that RIPE is doing /48 assignments from this Block for critical infrastructure (read: IXPs)? Perhaps also giving a list of which prefixes got assigned already as these won't show up in delegated-ripencc-latest. Greetings Bjoern A. Zeeb -- Bjoern A. Zeeb bzeeb at Zabbadoz dot NeT bz @ FreeBSD dot org

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[ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Re: [ncc-services-wg] RIPE 50 Report
by Daniel Roesen 25 May '05

25 May '05

On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 02:09:07PM +0200, Nick Hyrka wrote: > IPV6 WORKING GROUP > > - It was decided that the RIPE Whois Database will continue to include more > services that run in native IPv6. Hm? > - It was noted that the IPv6 Working Group needs to decide where it wishes > to house the new, operational IPv6 mailing list. What are you talking about here? What "new, operational IPv6 mailing list" are you referring to? What has the RIPE IPv6 Working Group to do with it? I have some suspicion that this is a reference to Ulrich Kiermayr's comment? Please clarify. Regards, Daniel -- CLUE-RIPE -- Jabber: dr(a)cluenet.de -- dr@IRCnet -- PGP: 0xA85C8AA0

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[ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Fwd: [apops] APNIC New IPv6 address block(s)
by leo vegoda 24 May '05

24 May '05

Begin forwarded message: > From: John Tran <john(a)apnic.net> > Date: May 24, 2005 9:29:05 am GMT+02:00 > To: apnic-announce(a)lists.apnic.net > Cc: apops(a)apops.net > Subject: [apops] APNIC New IPv6 address block(s) > Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0505231059340.10511(a)durian.apnic.net> > > > > Dear colleagues > > APNIC received the following IPv6 address block from IANA recently > and will be making allocations from this range in the near future. > > 2400:0000::/19 > > This announcement is being made for the information of the Internet > community, and so that network configurations such as routing filters > may be updated as appropriate. > > For more information on the resources administered by APNIC, see: > > http://www.apnic.net/db/ranges.html > > For information on the minimum allocation sizes within address ranges > administered by APNIC, see: > > http://www.apnic.net/db/min-alloc.html > > > Kind regards > > Son > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Resources Services Manager <Son(a)apnic.net> > Asia Pacific Network Information Centre phone: +61 7 3858 3100 > http://www.apnic.net fax: +61 7 3858 3199 > Helpdesk phone: +61 7 3858 3188 > email: > helpdesk(a)apnic.net > Please send Internet Resource Requests to <hostmaster(a)apnic.net> > _____________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > apops mailing list > apops(a)apops.net > http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/apops > Website: www.apops.net > -- leo vegoda Registration Services Manager RIPE NCC

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[ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Who provides v6 uplink via tunnel ?
by Kurt Jaeger 22 May '05

22 May '05

Hello, As none of our uplinks currently provides v6 support, I'm looking for some site that would be willing to route our /32 and tunnel it to some endpoint via v4. We're located in southern germany (Stuttgart). -- MfG/Best regards, Kurt Jaeger 15 years to go ! LF.net GmbH fon +49 711 90074-23 pi(a)LF.net Ruppmannstr. 27 fax +49 711 90074-33 D-70565 Stuttgart mob +49 171 3101372

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[ipv6-wg@ripe.net] What is a site?
by ＠UUNET SE Ip 11 May '05

11 May '05

Hi. Following the discussion about /48 boundaries I'd like a better definition of what a site is. My definition of an end-user site is the office where we (MCI/UUNET) install a circuit. This could be a large office or a small bransch office or anything in between. Each office is handled separately and they request IPv4 addresses per office. Adopting this to IPv6 it would mean that each office would get a /48. This is too much for many of them. Approx. 80-90% of our sites request 32 IP-addresses or less and most likely only subnet it 2 or 4 times if they ever subnet it. Furthermore we never get a complete network design for all branch offices if the customer is transnational or even national so we can't really assign a /48 to the customer for him to subnet among his offices. We can of course change our procedures to accomomodate thisbut this will make things a lot more difficult for us as a LIR and also the customer. We can't decide how many addresses to assign to a customer based on size or revenue. What I want is a clear definition of what a site is by having more catagories. but I don't want a floating boundary as catagories do simplyfies things. I also include my suggestions based on where I'm coming from :-) /60 for home networks (16 networks) /56 for enterprises (small/medium) (256 networks) /48 for large enterprises (65000 networks) /47 or more for "very large subscribers" /64 for mobile phones (w/ bluetooth or 802.11b) /128 for dialup PC Please note that I'm not a routing expert nor am I a experienced in the complete IPv6 concept with mobil users and consumers goods etc. My main area is IP-address administration. I administrate IP-networks for MCI/UUNET in almost all of Europe except DE, AT and CH. I haven't read the RFC's related to this so my mind is wide open ;-) Best regards Patrick Arkley Supervisor IP/DNS-team SKSC/SKRC MCI - Powered by UUNET Armégatan 38 S-171 04 Solna, Sweden Web: www.se.mci.com <http://www.se.mci.com/> Phone direct: +46 (0)8 5661 7075 Fax: +46 (0)8 5661 7236 Mobile: +46 (0)733 11 20 75 VNET: 915-7075 E-mail: patrick.arkley(a)se.mci.com <mailto:patrick.arkley@se.mci.com> Initial Call team [VPN]: +46 (0)8 5661 7899 or emea-ip-vpn-initial-call(a)se.mci.com <mailto:emea-ip-vpn-initial-call@se.mci.com> Registry: +46 (0)8 5661 7454 or registry(a)se.uu.net <mailto:registry@se.uu.net> <mailto:registry@se.uu.net> IP-team: +46 (0)8 5661 7629 or ip(a)se.uu.net <mailto:ip@se.uu.net>

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[ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Re: [ipv6-wg@localhost] Re: What is a site?
by Erics 10 May '05

10 May '05

Hi all, please, let´s get back to the main question - what is a site ? I think we need a definition for this, because we find a lot of different means (eg. endsite, single network, customer, subscriber) in the IPv6 allocation and assignment policy and the RFC3177. Lets view a concrete example : A customer of us, a shipping company has ten brances at ten different locations. And he is running a seperated network behind our acces router on each loctaion. >From our point of view and understanding the RFC3177 each location is a site and we assign a /XX to each branch. Do you agree on this, or are there different opinions ? Kind regards Eric Schmidt LIR de.telekom

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RE: [ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Re: [ipv6-wg@localhost] Re: What is a site ?
by Patrick Arkley 10 May '05

10 May '05

That was indeed the original question. In my scenario, the same as yours, I would assign a /48 to each branch office. Too many subnets I would say. However, if the customer from a central point asked for a range for all his branch offices I wouldn't hesitate in assigning one /48 for him/her to use wherever appropriate. The problem from an adminitrative side is that we rarely get the customer to fill out a network request for all sites but rather request ranges per site as they are up for installation. Rgds Patrick Arkley Supervisor IP/DNS SKSC/SKRC Phone direct: +46 (0)8 5661 7075 Fax: +46 (0)8 5661 7236 Mobile: +46 (0)733 11 20 75 VNET: 915-7075 E-mail: patrick.arkley(a)se.mci.com Initial Call team [VPN]: +46 (0)8 5661 7899 or emea-ip-vpn-inital-call(a)se.mci.com Registry: +46 (0)8 5661 7454 or registry(a)se.uu.net IP-team: +46 (0)8 5661 7629 or ip(a)se.uu.net -----Original Message----- From: Erics [mailto:EricS@t-com.net] Sent: den 10 maj 2005 11:37 To: ipv6-wg(a)ripe.net Subject: [ipv6-wg(a)ripe.net] Re: [ipv6-wg@localhost] Re: What is a site? Hi all, please, let´s get back to the main question - what is a site ? I think we need a definition for this, because we find a lot of different means (eg. endsite, single network, customer, subscriber) in the IPv6 allocation and assignment policy and the RFC3177. Lets view a concrete example : A customer of us, a shipping company has ten brances at ten different locations. And he is running a seperated network behind our acces router on each loctaion. >From our point of view and understanding the RFC3177 each location is a site and we assign a /XX to each branch. Do you agree on this, or are there different opinions ? Kind regards Eric Schmidt LIR de.telekom

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[ipv6-wg@ripe.net] HD ratio issues and revisiting /48
by Iljitsch van Beijnum 05 May '05

05 May '05

Consider this my input for tomorrow's discussion. I'm far away but I'll be with you guys in spirit. (And watching!) Ok, this message is becoming rather long. Skip to the end for the practical stuff if necessary. I believe Geoff's point with the presentation yesterday was "with only 45 bits to play with and considering the HD ratio IPv6 address space isn't as unlimited as it once seemed". The whole idea behind the HD ratio is that the more you have, the more you waste. And "more" isn't just more in absolute terms, but also in relative terms. Essentially an HD ratio of X percent says you'll waste X percent of your address bits. To some degree, this makes sense. If you have a flat numbering plan you need N numbers plus some wiggle room. But if you introduce a strictly hierarchical addressing plan, you need more wiggle room. For instance phone numbers we have in most European countries have area codes for cities and then subscriber numbers within each city. When phone numbers in Amsterdam run out, they can't borrow numbers from The Hague. So not only do we need wiggle room for both aggregation levels (national and city), but in phone numbers we also lose some serious number capacity because the boundary isn't very flexible. In the Netherlands even the smallest area codes hold 6 digit subscriber numbers. This eats up more numbers than when you can give the smallest area codes 5 digit numbers, or better yet, use 4.5 - 7 digit as needed. Now the interesting thing is that the HD ratio RFC (RFC 3194) is for a large part based on experiences with French phone numbers. It's easy to see that even though Alain Durand and Christian Huitema are obviously on to something, there must be a problem somewhere, as they write that the practical maximum (= HD ratio of 87%) utilization for IPv4 is 240 million addresses. (Actually that would be 211 million, they didn't compensate for class D and E and other unusable address space.) However, according to the most recent ISC host count were now at 317 million (= hosts present in the reverse DNS) while only 2.5 billion out of 3.7 billion usable IPv4 addresses have been allocated by IANA. So the current HD ratio for usable non-reserved IPv4 space is 90.5%, and this includes legacy space, so if we were to look at RIR space only, this would certainly be even higher. If we apply the same HD ratio to the remaining 1.2 billion addresses, we should be able to grow to 480 million IPv4 addresses in use without even taking legacy space issues into account. The HD ratio also doesn't account for the nature of the number hierarchy. In phone numbers or classful IPv4, you can't move the aggregation boundaries around. But with CIDR and VLSM (variable length subnet masks, at one point a great innovation), this is not a problem. So if you have 8 locations that need 100 - 800 addresses respectively, you don't need 8 x 1024 = 8192 addresses, but 128 + 256 + 3 x 512 + 3 x 1024 = 4992 addresses, or even 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7 * 128 = 4096 addresses. This will of course push some of the pain up the next aggregation level, as rather than a single route there will be 8 to 32 individual routes. When we cross over to inter-domain routing, this is clearly harmful since we are currently unable to aggregate in the interdomain routing space unless aggregation was already done (or at least possible) at the source AS. But for interior routing, this really isn't much of a problem. Even when routing a billion (2^30) /48s, that would boil down to: 2 levels, strict hierarchy: 2 * 2^15 routes 3 levels, strict hierarchy: 3 * 2^10 routes This is all very doable with today's hardware. Even if we assume a size difference of a factor 64 between the largest and the smallest entities in a loose hierarchy (ie. if Mexico City is your largest entity, the smallest would be a city with less than half a million people) that's 2^15 + 2^21 with two levels and 2^10 + 2^16 with three levels. Conclusion: you don't _have_ to lose one bit out of five as the allocated address space gets bigger. This also applies to interdomain routing. If you want to number 4 billion end-sites, Geoff's presentation lists a /8 as the prefix length of choice. But 4 billion also happens to be 256 * 16 million, and for 16 million we only need a /18. So 256 of those would be a / 10. We just saved 2 bits but now we have 256 /18s in the global routing table rather than one /8. But even someone who gets as much flack for not trusting the router vendors to come up with bigger boxes as me can appreciate that routing a larger number of /18s isn't going to kill BGP (there can only be 32 - 256 thousand /18 routes anyway). (With apologies for the thousand = 2^10 and million = 2^20.) !-!-!-! So where does this land us in the "create more wiggle room" debate? I think it's pretty clear that there is no immediate danger if we don't. On the other hand, if we can save some bits without real pain, why not do it? Going from /48 to /56 as a general recommendation would be one way to do that. Another way would be to keep the /48 for people who want it, but move the /64 to /60. It's practically impossible to utilize /128s in IPv6 (it can be done but it's just too painful and awkward). So: Now: /64 or /48 /56 idea: /64 or /56 /60 idea: /60 or /48 Giving everyone who needs address space a /60 rather than a /64 has the advantage that there is always room for a router. If my cell phone gets a /64, that's nice, but it means the phone has to bridge or proxy ND or some such. With a /60 I can have a subnet of my own for the bluetooth link, and another for the GPRS/UMTS link. Obviously this will increase the address consumption for people who would otherwise have gotten a /64, but even if there are many of those, that doesn't add up too badly. However, 95% of the people who would have gotten a /48 and 99% of the people who would have taken a / 56 would also be happy with a /60, and this would save a lot of address space. I also believe /60 vs /48 will make ISPs happier, as they're used to making SOHO/BigCu$tomer distinctions today and /60 vs /48 would pretty naturally fall into this. However, I stronly believe that EVERYONE who wants one and has an ISP who is reasonable should get a /48 no questions asked for the exact reasons that we have the "let them eat /48s" rule today. I would also suggest that all individual /48s would be registered in RIR databases.

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[ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Glueing to the "."...
by Carlos Friacas 04 May '05

04 May '05

Hi, As far as i know, the possibility of having AAAA glue records on the root zone was a long and hard quest... Now that we have it for some time, is it important to ask what is being done with this possibility??? Well, i do think YES... and by reading the DNS root zone what i can see is: - 42 ccTLDs glued - 4 gTLDs glued (.com, .int, .aeros, .net) - only 35 different servers/names with AAAAs on the root zone (NS0.JA.NET has 2!) - most of the TLDs supported by nameservers with AAAAs has only one or two. Should we expect an improvement in these numbers soon? :-) Comments...? ./Carlos -------------- http://www.ip6.fccn.pt/nativeRCTS2.html Wide Area Network (WAN) Workgroup, CMF8-RIPE, CF596-ARIN FCCN - Fundacao para a Computacao Cientifica Nacional http://www.fccn.pt "Internet is just routes (150665/657), naming (millions) and... people!"

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[ipv6-wg@ripe.net] Agenda for ipv6 wg RIPE50
by David Kessens 03 May '05

03 May '05

Please see below for the ipv6 working group agenda. David Kessens --- Interesting topics (from an ipv6 perspective) in the presentation sections: Monday, 2 May 2005 14:00-15:30 * Quality of Service Measurement in IPv6, Issues and Solutions (Alessandro Bassi, Hitachi) * How to set an Internet2 Land Speed Record (Anders Magnusson, Lulea Tekniska Universiteit) Tuesday, 3 May 2005 16:00-17:30 * Global IPv6 routing table status (Gert Doering) --- Agenda for the IPv6 Working Group Meeting RIPE50 When: Friday, 6 May 2005, 09:00 - 10:30 Where: C58, Clarion Hotel, Stockholm, SE A. Administrative stuff - appointment of scribe - agenda bashing (David Kessens) B. Quick update from the RIPE NCC regarding ipv6 services (RIPE NCC) C. Discussion on: Global IPv6 routing table status (Gert Doering) D. Revisiting the /48 recommendation (Gert Doering, Thomas Narten, David Kessens) Discussion, read rfc3177 as preparation E. Renumbering ipv6 networks (Stig Venaas, Tim Chown) F. Report(s) about *actual* v6 traffic volume as compared to v4? *what's real* out there, not what's on powerpoint? (input from the audience) G. Developments/initiatives regarding IPv6 in the RIPE region and beyond - IPv6 - Advanced Network Developments's first year (Carlos Friacas) - 9K IPv6 Schools' Network Initiative (Carlos Friacas) - About the IPv6 Steering Commitee: (Carlos Friacas) - Point6 (http://www.point6.net/) (Francis Dupont) - New Operational IPv6 maillist: http://lists.cluenet.de/mailman/listinfo/ipv6-ops/ (Gert Doering) - ... H. Input for the RIPE NCC Activity Plan (input from the audience) Z. AOB ---

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