January 1999 - ipv6-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Fw: (IPng 7095) Current NGtrans agenda for 2nd day of Grenoble interim meetings
by Thomas Trede 27 Jan '99

27 Jan '99

FYI. Regards, Thomas Trede -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Bob Fink <fink(a)es.net> An: ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM <ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM>; IPng List <ipng(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM> Cc: Bob Fink <fink(a)es.net>; Tony Hain <tonyhain(a)microsoft.com> Datum: Mittwoch, 27. Januar 1999 01:52 Betreff: (IPng 7095) Current NGtrans agenda for 2nd day of Grenoble interim meetings >NGtrans Folk, > >Below is the current, and final pre-meeting, NGtrans agenda for the 2nd day >of the Grenoble interim meetings. We can still alter the agenda at the >meeting. > >As Bob and Steve are doing for the IPng interim meeting, we would like to >assign an assignment for attendees, so please read below. > > >Thanks, > >Tony and Bob > >------------------------------------------------------ >Wednesday, February 3 -- NGtrans working group meeting >------------------------------------------------------ > >Purpose: > >The NGtrans working group has developed a large set of transition tools >including the original transition mechanisms (i.e., dual stack w/IPv6 >over IPv4 tunneling), 6over4 without explicit tunnels, translation, >and other tunneling techniques. The purpose of the meeting is for the >working group to converge on a smaller set of tools and mechanisms. >The meeting will include discussing specific transition scenarios and >evaluating how the current transition tools and mechanism work in >these environments. > > >Requirements for Attendees: > >**NOTE** All attendees are required to bring two lists, hopefully each on a >single sheet of paper, as follows: > >1. how you would evaluate the various transition tools/mechanisms under >agenda item (2). > >2. your favorite (i.e., most important) transition scenario to provide for >under agenda item (4). > > >Agenda: > >(1) Review NGtrans mission and charter (brief) - Bob Fink > >(2) Review transition tools/mechanism and how to evaluate them - Jim Bound > with help from various authors as needed (Cyndi Jung, Kazuaki Tsuchiya, >etc.) > >(3) Discuss specific transition scenarios - Tony Hain > with help from various folk (Jim Bound, etc.) > >(4) Evaluate tools/mechanisms against transition scenarios to establish > which to converge on - Bob Fink/Tony Hain > >(5) NGtrans mission and charter reprise (wrapup) - Tony Hain > >-end > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List >IPng Home Page: http://playground.sun.com/ipng >FTP archive: ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng >Direct all administrative requests to majordomo(a)sunroof.eng.sun.com >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >

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Fw: (IPng 7092) Current Agenda for First Day of IPng Interim Meeting
by Thomas Trede 27 Jan '99

27 Jan '99

FYI. Regards, Thomas Trede -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Bob Hinden <hinden(a)iprg.nokia.com> An: ipng(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM <ipng(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM>; ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM <ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM> Cc: hinden(a)iprg.nokia.com <hinden(a)iprg.nokia.com>; deering(a)cisco.com <deering(a)cisco.com> Datum: Dienstag, 26. Januar 1999 22:58 Betreff: (IPng 7092) Current Agenda for First Day of IPng Interim Meeting >Folks, > >Attached is the current agenda for the first day of the interim IPng and >NGTRANS working group meetings, February 2-4, in Grenoble, France. Please >send requests for changes to hinden(a)iprg.nokia.com and deering(a)cisco.com. > >*** Note 1 *** Several folks sent suggested agenda additions already, but >in some cases, it was not clear which of the three days those topics best >belonged to. If you sent a suggestion, and it has not appeared on any >of the three agendas, please resend to the appropriate chair(s): > > Day 1: IPng working group (Deering & Hinden) > Day 2: NGtrans working group (Fink & Hain) > Day 3: Deployment & promotion (Bound) > >Also, there will be a chance to adjust the agendas further on the meeting >days themselves, of course. > >*** Note 2 *** For the first day, we have written down some names of folks >to lead discussions on particular topics. If one of those names is yours, >and you don't want to lead those discussions, please let us know. > >Thanks, > >Bob Hinden >Steve Deering > > >Tuesday, February 2 -- IPng w.g. meeting >---------------------------------------- > > Purpose: > > The IPng w.g. has mostly completed its original charter, except for > shepherding the many w.g. specs through the final stages of Internet > Standardization. The purposes of this meeting are: (a) to review the > state of our many documents to identify any holes or loose ends that > must be finished up to complete our charter, and (b) to identify and > discuss new IPv6-related topics that the attendees think should be > taken on by the IETF or the IRTF (Internet Research Task Force), > either in the current working group or in other working groups / > research groups. > > Requirements for Attendees: > > **NOTE** All attendees are required to bring a short list (one to five > items, on a single sheet of paper) of topics that they consider the > most important IPv6-related topics for the IETF or IRTF to work on. > > Agenda: > > o Introduction (S. Deering) > > o Local arrangements (A. Durand) > > o Collect attendee required issue lists (S. Deering) > > o Review and update agenda (S. Deering) > > o Review state/completeness of current IPv6-related protocols (B. Hinden) > > - IPv6 Protocols > o Base Protocol > o Addressing > o ICMP, Neighbor discovery, auto config, MLD > o IPover<link>, Header compression > o DNS > o MIB's > o Path MTU > o Router Alert > o Jumbograms > - API's > - Routing Protocols (Unicast and Multicast) > - DHCP > - IP Mobility > > o Identify important new IPv6 protocol/standards work > > - State of Plug-and-Play (B. Hinden) > o "Dentist's office" > o Secure "Dentist's office" > - Securing ICMP/ND/MLD (S. Deering) > - Will IPv6 work for a Billion (or more) PDA's and > Mobile Phones? (B. Hinden) > - Better Support for Multihomed Hosts (R. Draves) > - Better Support for Multihomed Sites (E. Nordmark) > - Privacy issues with use of EUI-64 IDs (T. Narten) > - Source and Destination Address Selection (T. Narten) > - Making TCP use Global Interface IDs (A. Mankin/T. Narten/M. Crawford) > > (3) Formulate recommendations to the IESG/IAB, re future IPv6 > work (S. Deering, B. Hinden) > > - Disposition of IPng w.g. (extend charter? go on hiatus?) > - Distribution of work to other existing WGs? > - Evaluation of all IETF protocols for "IPv6-readiness"? > - Recommendations for establishing new WG(s) or RG(s)? > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List >IPng Home Page: http://playground.sun.com/ipng >FTP archive: ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng >Direct all administrative requests to majordomo(a)sunroof.eng.sun.com >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >

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Fw: (ngtrans) I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ngtrans-translator-01.txt
by Thomas Trede 26 Jan '99

26 Jan '99

FYI. Regards, Thomas Trede -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Internet-Drafts(a)ietf.org <Internet-Drafts(a)ietf.org> An: "IETF-Announce:;;;;@ns.cnri.reston.va.us;"@Eng.Sun.COM;;; <"IETF-Announce:;;;;@ns.cnri.reston.va.us;"@Eng.Sun.COM;;;> Cc: ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM <ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM> Datum: Dienstag, 26. Januar 1999 18:01 Betreff: (ngtrans) I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ngtrans-translator-01.txt >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >This draft is a work item of the Next Generation Transition Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Categorizing Translators between IPv4 and IPv6 > Author(s) : K. Yamamoto, M. Sumikawa > Filename : draft-ietf-ngtrans-translator-01.txt > Pages : 7 > Date : 25-Jan-99 > > This memo categorizes translators between IPv4 and IPv6. The two > components, address interpretation and address mapping, are > discussed. This draft is based on a paper appeared in the > proceedings of INET98[INET]. The intention of this memo is > circulation of such knowledge. > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-translator-01.txt > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username >"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-ngtrans-translator-01.txt". > >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > >Send a message to: > mailserv(a)ietf.org. >In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-translator-01.txt". > >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > >Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >Internet-Draft. > ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-translator-01.txt

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Fw: (ngtrans) I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-00.txt
by Thomas Trede 26 Jan '99

26 Jan '99

FYI. Regards, Thomas Trede -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Internet-Drafts(a)ietf.org <Internet-Drafts(a)ietf.org> An: "IETF-Announce:;;;;@ns.cnri.reston.va.us;"@Eng.Sun.COM;;; <"IETF-Announce:;;;;@ns.cnri.reston.va.us;"@Eng.Sun.COM;;;> Cc: ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM <ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM> Datum: Dienstag, 26. Januar 1999 18:01 Betreff: (ngtrans) I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-00.txt >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >This draft is a work item of the Next Generation Transition Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Connection of IPv6 Domains via IPv4 Clouds > without Explicit Tunnels > Author(s) : B. Carpenter, K. Moore > Filename : draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-00.txt > Pages : 10 > Date : 25-Jan-99 > > This memo specifies an optional mechanism for assigning a unique > IPv6 address prefix to any site that currently has at least one > globally unique IPv4 address, and describes scenarios for using such > a prefix during the co-existence phase of IPv4 to IPv6 transition. > > The motivation for this method is to allow isolated IPv6 domains, > attached to an IPv4 network which has no native IPv6 support, to > communicate with other such IPv6 domains with minimal manual > configuration. Effectively it treats the IPv4 network as a virtual > link layer. It also automatically provides 80 bits of globally unique > IPv6 address space to any site with at least one globally unique IPv4 > address. If combined with a Network Address Translator (NAT), it > allows the NAT to provide a globally-unique and globally-routable > IPv6 address to each of its client hosts. > > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-00.txt > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username >"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-00.txt". > >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > >Send a message to: > mailserv(a)ietf.org. >In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-00.txt". > >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > >Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >Internet-Draft. > ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ngtrans-6to4-00.txt

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(IPng 7085) Protocol Action: A Method for the Transmission of IPv6 Packets over ARCnet Networks. to Proposed Standard (fwd)
by Thomas Trede 23 Jan '99

23 Jan '99

FYI. Regards, Thomas Trede ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:16:28 -0500 From: The IESG <iesg-secretary(a)ietf.org> To: IETF-Announce:;;;;@ns.cnri.reston.va.us;@Eng.Sun.COM;;; Cc: RFC Editor <rfc-editor(a)isi.edu>, Internet Architecture Board <iab(a)isi.edu>, ipng(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM Subject: (IPng 7085) Protocol Action: A Method for the Transmission of IPv6 Packets over ARCnet Networks. to Proposed Standard The IESG has approved A Method for the Transmission of IPv6 Packets over ARCnet Networks <draft-souvatzis-ipv6-arcnet-05.txt> as a Proposed Standard. This document is the product of the IPNG Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Jeffrey Burgan and Thomas Narten. Technical Summary This document defines how to run IPv6 over an ARCnet network. It defines the protocol ID, encapsulation format, method for forming interface identifiers, etc. Working Group Summary There was consensus within the WG for this document. Protocol Quality This document has been reviewed for the IESG by Thomas Narten. -------------------------------------------------------------------- IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List IPng Home Page: http://playground.sun.com/ipng FTP archive: ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng Direct all administrative requests to majordomo(a)sunroof.eng.sun.com --------------------------------------------------------------------

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Fw: (ngtrans) W.G. Last Call on "Bump-in-the-Stack" for Experimental RFC
by Thomas Trede 22 Jan '99

22 Jan '99

FYI. Regards, Thomas Trede -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Bob Fink <fink(a)es.net> An: ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM <ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM> Cc: Kazuaki Tsuchiya <tsuchi(a)ebina.hitachi.co.jp>; Tony Hain <tonyhain(a)microsoft.com>; Bob Fink <fink(a)es.net>; Harald Tveit Alvestrand <Harald.Alvestrand(a)maxware.no>; Bert Wijnen <WIJNEN(a)VNET.IBM.COM> Datum: Freitag, 22. Januar 1999 04:41 Betreff: (ngtrans) W.G. Last Call on "Bump-in-the-Stack" for Experimental RFC >NGtrans Folk, > >I have still not seen any comments against moving forward with >"Bump-in-the-Stack" as Experimental RFC per my email in late December. Thus >I'm proceeding with a "last call". > >This is an NGtrans working group last call for comments on advancing the >following document as an Experimental RFC: > > Title : Dual Stack Hosts using the "Bump-in-the-Stack" Technique > Author(s) : K. Tsuchiya, H. Higuchi & Y. Atarashi > Filename : draft-ietf-ngtrans-dual-stack-hosts-00.txt > Pages : 11 > Date : 16-Nov-98 > >Please send substantive comments to the ngtrans mailing list, and minor >editorial comments to the authors. This last call period will end two >weeks from today on February 5, 1999. > >Bob Fink/ Tony Hain > > > >

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Fw: (IPng 7076) Interim Meeting registration fees.
by Thomas Trede 21 Jan '99

21 Jan '99

FYI. Regards, Thomas Trede -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Alain Durand <Alain.Durand(a)imag.fr> An: ipng(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM <ipng(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM>; ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM <ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM>; 6bone(a)ISI.EDU <6bone(a)ISI.EDU> Datum: Donnerstag, 21. Januar 1999 15:17 Betreff: (IPng 7076) Interim Meeting registration fees. >Hi. > >We came out with a solution to get you some lunch during the meeting. >We will have a catering service with a buffet and we will have to charge >some fees for that. >The registration fees, covering the 3 lunches and 3 afternoom breaks, >will be 100F per day. > >So, the total will be 300F (about $50) for the meeting and >450F (300+150) if you attend the social. > >We will open a registration desk on tuesday, Feb. 2nd, morning at 8:00 AM. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >--------- >---- Please come with ***exact*** change in cash in french francs ---- >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - >--------- > >We can take french checks from a french bank, >but we can not take credit cards. > > - Alain. > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List >IPng Home Page: http://playground.sun.com/ipng >FTP archive: ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng >Direct all administrative requests to majordomo(a)sunroof.eng.sun.com >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >

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Fw: (ngtrans) Grenoble Discussion - Proposals to assist "initial" transition of IPv6
by Thomas Trede 20 Jan '99

20 Jan '99

FYI. Regards, Thomas Trede -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Jim Bound <bound(a)wasted.zk3.dec.com> An: ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM <ngtrans(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM> Cc: bound(a)zk3.dec.com <bound(a)zk3.dec.com> Datum: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 1999 16:57 Betreff: (ngtrans) Grenoble Discussion - Proposals to assist "initial" transition of IPv6 >Folks, > >At the Grenoble Interim meeting it would be really great if during the >ngtrans session if we could discuss the merits and differences between >the initial set of proposals that would be useful to assist IPv6 >deployment. In addition we should also discuss the implementation >complexities for each of them. Also what common implementation problems >to each of them face which are similar (e.g. DNS, Assignment of >Addresses). The list below are the ones I would think are important for >initial deployment and then I list the ones which may be needed later. >We can debate the order but covering the first set would be a lot of >work if folks want we can cover the second set at Minnieapolis. > >draft-ietf-ngtrans-dti-00.txt (note this proposal contrasts and >compares the others here in the draft and I think incorrectly but I will >be sending my input on this to the list before Grenoble soon). > >draft-ietf-ngtrans-natpt-04.txt > >draft-ietf-ngtrans-siit-04.txt > >draft-ietf-ngtrans-assgn-ipv4-addrs-01.txt > >Could I ask for some volunteers to help lead with me such a discussion >and if possible do some prepartory work with me offline? > >The ones we need to do later are: > >draft-ietf-ngtrans-dual-stack-hosts-00.txt > >draft-ietf-ngtrans-ipv4-ipv6-xlator-00.txt > >draft-ietf-ngtrans-translator-00.txt > >thanks >/jim >

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Fw: (IPng 7071) I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipngwg-6over4-02.txt
by Thomas Trede 20 Jan '99

20 Jan '99

FYI. Regards, Thomas Trede -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Internet-Drafts(a)ietf.org <Internet-Drafts(a)ietf.org> An: "IETF-Announce:;;;;@ns.cnri.reston.va.us;"@Eng.Sun.COM;;; <"IETF-Announce:;;;;@ns.cnri.reston.va.us;"@Eng.Sun.COM;;;> Cc: ipng(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM <ipng(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM> Datum: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 1999 17:56 Betreff: (IPng 7071) I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipngwg-6over4-02.txt >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >This draft is a work item of the IPNG Working Group of the IETF. > > >Note: This revision reflects comments received during the last call period. > > Title : Transmission of IPv6 over IPv4 Domains > without Explicit Tunnels > Author(s) : B. Carpenter, C. Jung > Filename : draft-ietf-ipngwg-6over4-02.txt > Pages : 9 > Date : 19-Jan-99 > > This memo specifies the frame format for transmission of IPv6 [IPV6] > packets and the method of forming IPv6 link-local addresses over IPv4 > domains. It also specifies the content of the Source/Target Link- > layer Address option used in the Router Solicitation, Router > Advertisement, Neighbor Solicitation, and Neighbor Advertisement > and Redirect messages, when those messages are transmitted on an > IPv4 multicast network. > > The motivation for this method is to allow isolated IPv6 hosts, > located on a physical link which has no directly connected IPv6 > router, to become fully functional IPv6 hosts by using an IPv4 > domain that supports IPv4 multicast as their virtual local > link. It uses IPv4 multicast as a 'virtual Ethernet.' > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-6over4-02.txt > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username >"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-ipngwg-6over4-02.txt". > >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > >Send a message to: > mailserv(a)ietf.org. >In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-6over4-02.txt". > >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > >Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader >implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the >Internet-Draft. > ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-6over4-02.txt

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Fw: (IPng 7070) Protocol Action: A Method for the Transmission of IPv6 Packets over ARCnet Networks. to Proposed Standard
by Thomas Trede 20 Jan '99

20 Jan '99

FYI. Regards, Thomas Trede -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: The IESG <iesg-secretary(a)ietf.org> An: "IETF-Announce:;;;;@ns.cnri.reston.va.us;"@Eng.Sun.COM;;; <"IETF-Announce:;;;;@ns.cnri.reston.va.us;"@Eng.Sun.COM;;;> Cc: RFC Editor <rfc-editor(a)isi.edu>; Internet Architecture Board <iab(a)isi.edu>; ipng(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM <ipng(a)sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM> Datum: Mittwoch, 20. Januar 1999 16:57 Betreff: (IPng 7070) Protocol Action: A Method for the Transmission of IPv6 Packets over ARCnet Networks. to Proposed Standard > > >The IESG has approved A Method for the Transmission of IPv6 Packets >over ARCnet Networks <draft-souvatzis-ipv6-arcnet-05.txt> as a Proposed >Standard. This document is the product of the IPNG Working Group. > >The IESG contact persons are Jeffrey Burgan and Thomas Narten. > > >Technical Summary > >This document defines how to run IPv6 over an ARCnet network. It >defines the protocol ID, encapsulation format, method for forming >interface identifiers, etc. > >Working Group Summary > >There was consensus within the WG for this document. > >Protocol Quality > >This document has been reviewed for the IESG by Thomas Narten. > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >IETF IPng Working Group Mailing List >IPng Home Page: http://playground.sun.com/ipng >FTP archive: ftp://playground.sun.com/pub/ipng >Direct all administrative requests to majordomo(a)sunroof.eng.sun.com >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >

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