Hi Guys, quick point here - ENUM is according to RFC3261. It's AKA "public" ENUM. It *is* available on the Internet. Anything else is "ENUM-like". For ENUM, I had assumed that the Registrant will be the customer of the Communications Service provided via the associated E.164 number. Note - the customer, not their CSP. AFAICT, that's the plan in the UK, at least. As for "experimental" systems in which the CSP is allowed to register ENUM domains and, as a convenience to their customers, publishes the SIP URIs by which those customers can be contacted (like those fine chaps at Sipgate), good for them - they should be applauded, for a good example of SIP DIAL. It's also fairly tricky in ENUM if the customers have the rights and so can choose not to opt-in/register. If they do register, then the CSP may be able to provision the NAPTR with the SIP URI, but if they don't you're screwed. Thus, in the long term, I'm not sure how SIP DIAL fits with ("public") ENUM. For those who use DNS in private "Walled Garden" systems - they might as well be using trained rats to pass around routing data - how would we ever know? However, these are *NOT* ENUM - they might be an ENUM-like system, but they are not according to RFC3261 (or TS102172 :), so they're fakes. all the best, Lawrence On 7 Oct 2004, at 00:48, Adrian Georgescu wrote:

Indeed, what the majority of VoIP providers do not seem to realize today is that the cost of building the walled garden is exceeding the usefulness of the service provided. I hope the version 1 of today's VoIP service providers will be replaced by a more advanced version 2 who will generate more revenues and attract more customers by doing exactly the opposite.

My ENUM and SIP addresses must be public and reachable from the Internet, should I stay in a walled carden I will behave like my neighbour's unfortunate cat, I will look for better food and entertainment at the neighbours.

Regards, Adrian

On Oct 7, 2004, at 1:02 AM, Stastny Richard wrote: Carsten asked:

...

...

But WTH is a "public (DIAL) SIP URI"? Just to continue to be on the same page here as I never came across this term before...

I think the term has been brought up by Henry Sinnreich. considering the currently many providers provide VoIP services in a walled garden (.e.g. 3GPP, TISPAN NGN, even Skype), but they do not provide you with a public SIP URI, so you cannot be reached (dialed) on the Internet.

So Henry says (and I agree), if you do not have a SIP URI, you do not have VoIP.

And especially on an ENUM related list you may add: if you do not have a SIP URI, you cannot use ENUM as well.

regards

Richard

Yes, exactly. I have tried to give a humorous explanation to this and so-called "VoIP" versions in a roundtable. Henry -----Original Message----- From: Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP) [mailto:lwc@roke.co.uk] Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 7:53 PM To: Adrian Georgescu Cc: Stastny Richard; Carsten Schiefner; Henry Sinnreich; <enum-wg@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [enum-wg] Kapsch CarrierCom first company to be reached with ENUM Hi Guys, quick point here - ENUM is according to RFC3261. It's AKA "public" ENUM. It *is* available on the Internet. Anything else is "ENUM-like". For ENUM, I had assumed that the Registrant will be the customer of the Communications Service provided via the associated E.164 number. Note - the customer, not their CSP. AFAICT, that's the plan in the UK, at least. As for "experimental" systems in which the CSP is allowed to register ENUM domains and, as a convenience to their customers, publishes the SIP URIs by which those customers can be contacted (like those fine chaps at Sipgate), good for them - they should be applauded, for a good example of SIP DIAL. It's also fairly tricky in ENUM if the customers have the rights and so can choose not to opt-in/register. If they do register, then the CSP may be able to provision the NAPTR with the SIP URI, but if they don't you're screwed. Thus, in the long term, I'm not sure how SIP DIAL fits with ("public") ENUM. For those who use DNS in private "Walled Garden" systems - they might as well be using trained rats to pass around routing data - how would we ever know? However, these are *NOT* ENUM - they might be an ENUM-like system, but they are not according to RFC3261 (or TS102172 :), so they're fakes. all the best, Lawrence On 7 Oct 2004, at 00:48, Adrian Georgescu wrote:

Indeed, what the majority of VoIP providers do not seem to realize today is that the cost of building the walled garden is exceeding the usefulness of the service provided. I hope the version 1 of today's VoIP service providers will be replaced by a more advanced version 2 who will generate more revenues and attract more customers by doing exactly the opposite.

My ENUM and SIP addresses must be public and reachable from the Internet, should I stay in a walled carden I will behave like my neighbour's unfortunate cat, I will look for better food and entertainment at the neighbours.

Regards, Adrian

On Oct 7, 2004, at 1:02 AM, Stastny Richard wrote: Carsten asked:

...

...

But WTH is a "public (DIAL) SIP URI"? Just to continue to be on the same page here as I never came across this term before...

I think the term has been brought up by Henry Sinnreich. considering the currently many providers provide VoIP services in a walled garden (.e.g. 3GPP, TISPAN NGN, even Skype), but they do not provide you with a public SIP URI, so you cannot be reached (dialed) on the Internet.

So Henry says (and I agree), if you do not have a SIP URI, you do not have VoIP.

And especially on an ENUM related list you may add: if you do not have a SIP URI, you cannot use ENUM as well.

regards

Richard

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