- enum-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Re: [Enum] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range
by John Perkins 20 Apr '05

20 Apr '05

Carsten Schiefner wrote: > Richard, > > three short questions: > > - subscribers must have > [ ] Austrian citizenship > [ ] Austrian residency > [X] neither one, ie. it's gobally open There is a vague restriction in the numbering ordinance about usage of those numbers - the "usage focus of the number must lie within Austria" - wherever the "usage focus" of an internet based service consisting of DNS, gateways, access, provisioning etc. might be ... > - registrars must > [ ] have a certain license fo Telco operations > [ ] be an Austrian company > [ ] have at least an Austrian subsidiary > From what I understand this is basically dealt with by the answer to > the question who is eligible to become an enum.at registrar, correct? neither one - the domain itself is open to any enum.at registrar. However - to have the corresponding number assigned (which in turn requires to domain to be registered first) you need to have a contract with a licensed Austrian communication service provider (which is not limited to austrian companies!). Practically, i expect most registrars to be the CSP as well, so that you have a contract with just one party. The SP registers your domain, gets the number allocated, and assigns it to you. > - To what extend NP is implemented? NP is formally done by changing data in the ENUM registry. No re-routing is necessary in the PSTN, since every operator is allowed to terminate any traffic to this number range on a gateway of his choice. cheers Alex Mayrhofer enum.at _______________________________________________ enum mailing list enum(a)ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/enum

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Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range
by Stastny Richard 20 Apr '05

20 Apr '05

A general statement: There seems to be a confusion with the terms telco and communication service provider For the avaoidance of doubt: To request an E.164 number in Austria you need to be a communication service provider according to the Austrian telecommunication law To be a telecommunication service provider no licence is necessary, the only requirement is to notify the regulator from the fact you are considering yourself a CSP. This is also complienat to the EU regulatory framework Richard ________________________________ Von: enum-wg-admin(a)ripe.net im Auftrag von Alexander Mayrhofer Gesendet: Mi 20.04.2005 12:55 An: chenhui(a)cnnic.cn Cc: lwc(a)roke.co.uk; lendl(a)nic.at; enum-wg(a)ripe.net Betreff: Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range chenhui(a)cnnic.cn wrote: > Axelm, > > For 1), Does it mean that in Austria, the session-control equipments (as you said, > the several components, and maybe including softswitch?) in Telco network all > support ENUM? No, i didn't say that. I said that this would be a way to implement it. They would have to add such equipment to their network. > For 2), Who possess(take charge in assigning) the 780 number range? Users should > have a 780 number first and then have a corresponding domain,yes? The assignment is done be the regulator via communication service providers. The 780 range is an exception from the usual ENUM procedure: For 780, you register the _domain_ first, and if you successfully aquire the domain, your CSP qualifies for the corresponding number assignment. > For 3), I think the whole charge module can be refered to some aspects, not just > registry. For example, different ENUM services(call/Voicemail/conference..) can > have more charge module than '"per-delegation" based model'. Sure. But that is up to the service providers, which "package" the ENUM delegation together with eg. SIP service, fax box, voicemail, IM gatewaying. > BTW,what kinds of ENUM services have been provided in Austria except call? We're investigating usage scenarios including SMS/text/IM, Fax, Video-SIP/UMTS and presence (that's us, the registry guys. I can't speak for the CSP community of course, i'm hoping they work on other topics, too). cheers axelm

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Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range
by chenhui＠cnnic.cn 20 Apr '05

20 Apr '05

Axelm, For 1), Does it mean that in Austria, the session-control equipments (as you said, the several components, and maybe including softswitch?) in Telco network all support ENUM? For 2), Who possess(take charge in assigning) the 780 number range? Users should have a 780 number first and then have a corresponding domain,yes? For 3), I think the whole charge module can be refered to some aspects, not just registry. For example, different ENUM services(call/Voicemail/conference..) can have more charge module than '"per-delegation" based model'. BTW,what kinds of ENUM services have been provided in Austria except call? Best wishes! Chenhui >From: Alexander Mayrhofer <axelm(a)nic.at> >Reply-To: >To: chenhui(a)cnnic.cn >Subject: Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range >Date:Wed, 20 Apr 2005 09:21:35 +0200 > >chenhui(a)cnnic.cn wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I have several questions... > > 1) Which switching machine takes in charge of "triggering an ENUM query"? Is it > > the local-part machine? > > It will usually consist of several components: A SS7 "speaking" > component, a ISDN to SIP/H.323 (talking about voice) Gateway, probably > an external box doing the ENUM lookup and controlling the gateway, plus > a session border controller / firewall ... > > > > 2) Is it that ENUM registry in Austria stores all the ENUM NAPTR records of all > > users? And telco service providers agree to cooperate with ENUM registry? > > Neither. But: > > It's the user's choice to opt in for ENUM (although the Telco is allowed > to opt-in for the user as well). The NAPTRs are the user's choice, too. > Validation can take place without an cooperating telco as well (eg. via > providing paperwork, invoices, directory entries etc.) > > However, with regards to the number range +43 780, a user is required to > have the corresponding ENUM-Domain, because it's a prerequisite to > number allocation. > > > 3) What is the charge module of ENUM application now? Is it based on number of > > services, just ENUM number, or some other things? > > If you're talking about the registry costs: it's a "per-delegation" > based model - the registrar is esentially charged "<fee> x <number of > domains>" with the fee slightly decreasing as the number of domains > increases. > > cheers > > axelm >

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Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range
by chenhui＠cnnic.cn 20 Apr '05

20 Apr '05

Hi all, I have several questions... 1) Which switching machine takes in charge of "triggering an ENUM query"? Is it the local-part machine? 2) Is it that ENUM registry in Austria stores all the ENUM NAPTR records of all users? And telco service providers agree to cooperate with ENUM registry? 3) What is the charge module of ENUM application now? Is it based on number of services, just ENUM number, or some other things? Best wishes! Chenhui >From: "Conroy, Lawrence \(SMTP\)" <lwc(a)roke.co.uk> >Reply-To: >To: "Otmar Lendl" <lendl(a)nic.at> >Subject: Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range >Date:Tue, 19 Apr 2005 13:49:39 +0100 > >Hi Otmar, Carsten, folks, > I may have been brushed by a bus, but the term interconnect worries >me. Please use the LART if needed, but as I understood it... > >There is no NEED for an interconnect between an originating operator >and any specific terminating provider. Any call to a 780 number MUST >trigger an ENUM query, and the destination device is indicated by >the NAPTR generated URL. This is done on the "originating side". >Thus a PSTN originated call does not need to be delivered to another >operator, so no interconnect is needed, only an ENUM-aware gateway. > >Of course, if the originating operator is too dumb to realise that >this is "a license to print money" then they can make an agreement >to deliver calls to any one of a number of folk who can gateway the >PSTN call to a SIP phone. This is good news for those gateway providers, >as THEY have the license to print money. Capitalism will ensure that >they do not rob the poor originating operator for too much, but "the >drinks are on them". > >In the longer term, the originating operators may set up their own >gateways - there is a good business case, but it does require a clue. >It is up to history to see if and how long this takes. > >all the best, > Lawrence > >On 19 Apr 2005, at 13:11, Otmar Lendl wrote: >> Hi, >> >> On 2005/04/19 13:04, Carsten Schiefner <enumvoipsip.cs(a)schiefner.de> >> wrote: >>> Otmar Lendl wrote: >>> >>>> The call routing on the PSTN side is NOT AFFECTED by the selection >>>> of the KDB. Any telco can route *all* calls to *all* 0780 numbers >>>> to the same PSTN->VoIP gateway. The telco (KDB) currently owning >>>> the number has no right to receive the call via the usual SS7 >> interconnect. >>>> If there are multiple gateways available on the SS7 network, any >>>> telco originating calls to 0780 can choose the most convenient (i.e. >>>> cheapest) one to terminate calls to all 0780 numbers. >>> >>> [Thanks also to Alexander, who also clarified on that very point] >>> >>> After having slept over it (and some mind massages via private email >>> exchange), I guess I need to rephrase the question appropriately: >>> >>> - What will be 780 termination costs like? >> >> Termination costs as seen by the end-user, or termination >> costs between carriers? >> >>> - Is that being set by RTR, the Austrian regulator? >> >> The RTR has specified only "quellnetztarifiert", meaning that the >> originating network is free to set a price they charge to >> someone calling a 0780 number. Based on hints appearing in >> www.telekom.at, I'd expect that to be somewhere between local >> and national tariffs for TA customers. >> >> Generally speaking, the RTR does not interfere in the pricing of >> carrier-carrier settlement regimes unless one of the parties complains. >> >> As far as we know, that has not happened yet, thus RTR is still >> out of the loop in terms of 0780 interconnection fees. >> >>> - From what I understand what you (and Alexander) said - "If there are >> >>> multiple gateways available on the SS7 network, [...]" - each TSP/CSP >>> can pick any other gateway (true m:n relation), so eventually there >>> likely will be a market price for gatewaying. >> >> Yes. If using someone else's gateway is too expensive, you can either >> build your own or route your traffic to someone charging less for >> termination. >> >>> - In the meantime, there might be only one or two TSPs/CSPs providing >>> such gateways. Will they be regulated pricewise for the time being? >> >> No. >> >> /ol >> -- >> < Otmar Lendl (lendl(a)nic.at) | nic.at Systems Engineer > >>

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Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range
by Stastny Richard 19 Apr '05

19 Apr '05

Hi Carsten, your questions: - subscribers must have [ ] Austrian citizenship [ ] Austrian residency [ X] neither one, ie. it's gobally open - registrars must [ ] have a certain license fo Telco operations [ ] be an Austrian company [ ] have at least an Austrian subsidiary From what I understand this is basically dealt with by the answer to the question who is eligible to become an enum.at registrar, correct? Correct, but non of the above applies The regstrar may either be a communication service provider, OR have a contract with a communication service provider The definition of a communication service provider is different from a normal telco, and is also not restricted to Austrian company (This wiould not work anyway in the EU) Since I have not the time to look up the related laws; so if you want to know more I reccommend to contact Robert Schischka from enum.at - To what extend NP is implemented? ? What kind of NP do you mean? Porting ENUM domains from one registrar to the other? -yes Porting ENUM doamins from one Name server to the other? -yes Pointing the NAPTR to another sip URI? -yes regards Richard ________________________________ Von: enum-wg-admin(a)ripe.net im Auftrag von Carsten Schiefner Gesendet: Mo 18.04.2005 19:19 An: enum-wg(a)ripe.net; enum(a)ietf.org Betreff: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range Richard, three short questions: - subscribers must have [ ] Austrian citizenship [ ] Austrian residency [ ] neither one, ie. it's gobally open - registrars must [ ] have a certain license fo Telco operations [ ] be an Austrian company [ ] have at least an Austrian subsidiary From what I understand this is basically dealt with by the answer to the question who is eligible to become an enum.at registrar, correct? - To what extend NP is implemented? Thanks & best, -C. Stastny Richard wrote: > From: > http://voipandenum.blogspot.com/2005/04/austria-starts-with-enum-based-numb… > > Austria started in December 2004 as first country worldwide with the commercial deployment of ENUM. In this phase existing geographic, mobile, corporate and national-portable (nomadic) numbers could be registered. > > The next step will be the opening of the ENUM-based number range +43 780. The Austrian Regulator RTR <http://www.rtr.at> announced today together with enum.at <http://www.enum.at> , the Austrian ENUM Registry,that the opening of the number range for service will take place on May 17th, 2005 at 12 pm. From this time subscribers may register individual numbers on a first-come-first-serve basis. > > The ENUM-based number range was defined in the new numbering ordinance (KEM-V) issued 12.05.2004 and is intended for convergent services. The numbers in this range may be reached both from the public Internet and from the PSTN and are linked with the related ENUM domain. Calls from the PSTN are routed via SS7 to VoIP gateways enabled to query ENUM to find out the SIP or H.323 URIs of the destination. On the Internet the End-user may query ENUM directly or via a SIP proxy or gatekeeper to find the destination. > > So what is the advantage of this ENUM-based number range? > > Unlike "normal" E.164 numbers the usage of these numbers is not bound to the provision of a telephone service. > > The number range is specifically targeted for communications service providers offering only VoIP and related real-time communication services to provide their customers easily and swiftly with globally reachable E.164 numbers to be reached from the PSTN and also with an ENUM domain. The only pre-condition is to provide their customers with a SIP or H323 URI. > Some will like to hear this, some may not ;-) > > The subscriber simply requests the delegation of an ENUM domain in this range via an accredited ENUM Registrar. This registration triggers automatically the number assignment, so no validation is required, one of the major draw-backs of ENUM registrations of already existing numbers. > > On the other hand the end-user may control the associated ENUM domain and change the NAPTRs pointing to his VoIP service at any time, thus "porting" from one provider to another. > > But the number range also offers benefits to the conventional telcos on the PSTN, because they may provide their own gateway to route these number ranges and keep the money from the calling user, because no cascading takes place and no terminating fees need to be paid out. > > ENUM allows the global connectivity between customers of different providers without the need of bilateral agreements both on the Internet and also from the PSTN. > > This service is the first to truly implement the horizonal layered model of the future, separating transport, call set-up and applications. These open possibilities will enable an abundance of new and innovative services and applications for the end-users. > > Richard > see also: > http://voipandenum.blogspot.com/2005/04/enum-and-skype.html

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Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range
by Stastny Richard 19 Apr '05

19 Apr '05

From: http://voipandenum.blogspot.com/2005/04/austria-starts-with-enum-based-numb… Austria started in December 2004 as first country worldwide with the commercial deployment of ENUM. In this phase existing geographic, mobile, corporate and national-portable (nomadic) numbers could be registered. The next step will be the opening of the ENUM-based number range +43 780. The Austrian Regulator RTR <http://www.rtr.at> announced today together with enum.at <http://www.enum.at> , the Austrian ENUM Registry,that the opening of the number range for service will take place on May 17th, 2005 at 12 pm. From this time subscribers may register individual numbers on a first-come-first-serve basis. The ENUM-based number range was defined in the new numbering ordinance (KEM-V) issued 12.05.2004 and is intended for convergent services. The numbers in this range may be reached both from the public Internet and from the PSTN and are linked with the related ENUM domain. Calls from the PSTN are routed via SS7 to VoIP gateways enabled to query ENUM to find out the SIP or H.323 URIs of the destination. On the Internet the End-user may query ENUM directly or via a SIP proxy or gatekeeper to find the destination. So what is the advantage of this ENUM-based number range? Unlike "normal" E.164 numbers the usage of these numbers is not bound to the provision of a telephone service. The number range is specifically targeted for communications service providers offering only VoIP and related real-time communication services to provide their customers easily and swiftly with globally reachable E.164 numbers to be reached from the PSTN and also with an ENUM domain. The only pre-condition is to provide their customers with a SIP or H323 URI. Some will like to hear this, some may not ;-) The subscriber simply requests the delegation of an ENUM domain in this range via an accredited ENUM Registrar. This registration triggers automatically the number assignment, so no validation is required, one of the major draw-backs of ENUM registrations of already existing numbers. On the other hand the end-user may control the associated ENUM domain and change the NAPTRs pointing to his VoIP service at any time, thus "porting" from one provider to another. But the number range also offers benefits to the conventional telcos on the PSTN, because they may provide their own gateway to route these number ranges and keep the money from the calling user, because no cascading takes place and no terminating fees need to be paid out. ENUM allows the global connectivity between customers of different providers without the need of bilateral agreements both on the Internet and also from the PSTN. This service is the first to truly implement the horizonal layered model of the future, separating transport, call set-up and applications. These open possibilities will enable an abundance of new and innovative services and applications for the end-users. Richard see also: http://voipandenum.blogspot.com/2005/04/enum-and-skype.html

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Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range
by Conroy, Lawrence (SMTP) 19 Apr '05

19 Apr '05

Hi Otmar, Carsten, folks, I may have been brushed by a bus, but the term interconnect worries me. Please use the LART if needed, but as I understood it... There is no NEED for an interconnect between an originating operator and any specific terminating provider. Any call to a 780 number MUST trigger an ENUM query, and the destination device is indicated by the NAPTR generated URL. This is done on the "originating side". Thus a PSTN originated call does not need to be delivered to another operator, so no interconnect is needed, only an ENUM-aware gateway. Of course, if the originating operator is too dumb to realise that this is "a license to print money" then they can make an agreement to deliver calls to any one of a number of folk who can gateway the PSTN call to a SIP phone. This is good news for those gateway providers, as THEY have the license to print money. Capitalism will ensure that they do not rob the poor originating operator for too much, but "the drinks are on them". In the longer term, the originating operators may set up their own gateways - there is a good business case, but it does require a clue. It is up to history to see if and how long this takes. all the best, Lawrence On 19 Apr 2005, at 13:11, Otmar Lendl wrote: > Hi, > > On 2005/04/19 13:04, Carsten Schiefner <enumvoipsip.cs(a)schiefner.de> > wrote: >> Otmar Lendl wrote: >> >>> The call routing on the PSTN side is NOT AFFECTED by the selection >>> of the KDB. Any telco can route *all* calls to *all* 0780 numbers >>> to the same PSTN->VoIP gateway. The telco (KDB) currently owning >>> the number has no right to receive the call via the usual SS7 > interconnect. >>> If there are multiple gateways available on the SS7 network, any >>> telco originating calls to 0780 can choose the most convenient (i.e. >>> cheapest) one to terminate calls to all 0780 numbers. >> >> [Thanks also to Alexander, who also clarified on that very point] >> >> After having slept over it (and some mind massages via private email >> exchange), I guess I need to rephrase the question appropriately: >> >> - What will be 780 termination costs like? > > Termination costs as seen by the end-user, or termination > costs between carriers? > >> - Is that being set by RTR, the Austrian regulator? > > The RTR has specified only "quellnetztarifiert", meaning that the > originating network is free to set a price they charge to > someone calling a 0780 number. Based on hints appearing in > www.telekom.at, I'd expect that to be somewhere between local > and national tariffs for TA customers. > > Generally speaking, the RTR does not interfere in the pricing of > carrier-carrier settlement regimes unless one of the parties complains. > > As far as we know, that has not happened yet, thus RTR is still > out of the loop in terms of 0780 interconnection fees. > >> - From what I understand what you (and Alexander) said - "If there are > >> multiple gateways available on the SS7 network, [...]" - each TSP/CSP >> can pick any other gateway (true m:n relation), so eventually there >> likely will be a market price for gatewaying. > > Yes. If using someone else's gateway is too expensive, you can either > build your own or route your traffic to someone charging less for > termination. > >> - In the meantime, there might be only one or two TSPs/CSPs providing >> such gateways. Will they be regulated pricewise for the time being? > > No. > > /ol > -- > < Otmar Lendl (lendl(a)nic.at) | nic.at Systems Engineer > >

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Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range
by Jim Reid 18 Apr '05

18 Apr '05

Hi Otmar/Richard et al. It's highly likely the majority of the people on this list don't understand German very well. The info at www.enum.at in English sees to be out of date: ther's nothing about the use of this new number range. Is there an estimate for when the web site will be updated? I hope I won't have to learn German to get a delegation under +43 780. :-)

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Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range
by Stastny Richard 18 Apr '05

18 Apr '05

Hi Jim, one requirement from the regulator was that the number range should be used "primarily" within Austria: One method to keep the Scots at a low level is to provide the registrar page only in German ;-) Richard PS: I think Othmar will give a more proper answer ;-) ________________________________ Von: enum-wg-admin(a)ripe.net im Auftrag von Jim Reid Gesendet: Mo 18.04.2005 22:45 An: Otmar Lendl; enum-wg(a)ripe.net Betreff: Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range Hi Otmar/Richard et al. It's highly likely the majority of the people on this list don't understand German very well. The info at www.enum.at in English sees to be out of date: ther's nothing about the use of this new number range. Is there an estimate for when the web site will be updated? I hope I won't have to learn German to get a delegation under +43 780. :-)

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Re: [enum-wg] Austria starts with the ENUM-based number range
by Stastny Richard 18 Apr '05

18 Apr '05

Carsten wrote: >Stastny Richard wrote: >> - subscribers must have >> [ ] Austrian citizenship >> [ ] Austrian residency >> [ X] neither one, ie. it's gobally open > >cool - so all registrars listed here: http://www.enum.at/index.php?id=64&L=9 would help me out? Not necessarily, a registrar may not have the right to sell all number ranges; as I said before, a regisrar needs a contract with a CSP, see below >> - registrars must >> [...] >> >> The definition of a communication service provider is different from >> a normal telco, and is also not restricted to Austrian company >> (This wiould not work anyway in the EU) > >True, but such rules wouldn't be there nonetheless for the first time - >and for sure not for the last time either... Whatever the rationale >behind such action might be. I think there is a bit a misaunderstanding The registrar needs a contract with a CSP operating a gateway to guarantee that the 780 number range can be reached from the PSTN. This has nothing to do with the VoIP provider the subscriber chooses to point the NAPTR to. >> - To what extend NP is implemented? >> >> ? >> What kind of NP do you mean? >> >> Porting ENUM domains from one registrar to the other? -yes >> Porting ENUM doamins from one Name server to the other? -yes >> Pointing the NAPTR to another sip URI? -yes >> >>Porting the E.164 number in the PSTN world from one operator to the >>next, as the latter has much better break-out rates, for example. Or >>would that be entirely opaque to the subscriber as she deasls with a >>communication service provider only anyways? >> Again there seems to be a misunderstanding ENUM is only for incoming calls, the VoIP provider may not eben know that the user subscribing to 780 is pointing to him via ENUM You may use this VoIP provider to make out calls, but you do not need to. An example: I chosae a registrar to subscribe for 780 and point the NAPTR to iptel.org and use a SNOM to receive calls. I also subscribe to sipgate.at, which terminates also a 720 number, which also terminates on the SNOM. For outgoing calls I use only the SNOM and for call to the US I use LibreTel. Of course normally is expected that your VOIP provider is also the registrar and also providing your outcalls. Normal user do not have any idea what ENUM is, so you will get it in a bundle Richard

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