- eix-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Call for Agenda Items
by Fearghas McKay 28 Jan '04

28 Jan '04

Greetings The next EIX meeting is being held at the RIPE47 meeting on Wednesday 28th Jan in the two afternoon slots. As before we will have the IXP presentation sessions in the first slot and other items in the second. Nearly Final Agenda EIX A. Administrative Matters - scribe - volunteer for Jabber/IRC interface - list of participants - agenda bashing - minutes of previous meeting B. IXP Presentations AMSIX DECIX LINX NaMeX NDIX NetNOD NIX VIX Xchange Point Packet Exchange C. Euro-IX update D. IXP Upgrade Exeriences DECIX NDIX E. Switching Wish List v. 2.0 Z. AOB As usual we will try and take presentations up to the beginning of meeting but earlier is better for planning. Please will all presenters send me and mailto:webmaster@ripe.net a copy of their presentation in advance so we can preload the meeting laptop/filestore. If you are hoping to attend the meeting remotely via the new jabber irc channel and you may like to see if find a volunteer to act ast the local scribe as the NCC will not be providing a fallback 'volunteer'. Fearghas

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Call for Agenda Items
by Fearghas McKay 15 Jan '04

15 Jan '04

Greetings The next EIX meeting is being held at the RIPE47 meeting on Wednesday 28th Jan in the two afternoon slots. As before we will have the IXP presentation sessions in the first slot and other items in the second. Draft Agenda EIX A. Administrative Matters - scribe - list of participants - agenda - minutes of previous meeting B. IXP Presentations C. Euro-IX presentation Z. AOB As usual we will try and take presentations up to the beginning of meeting but earlier is better for planning. Please will all presenters send me a copy of their presentation in advance so we can preload the meeting laptop. See you in two weeks time! Fearghas

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RIPE 46 EIX minutes
by Fearghas McKay 15 Jan '04

15 Jan '04

Greetings Here are the minutes for the last RIPE 46 meeting. Carsten is still looking for a couple of presentations from people, he will be chasing you at RIPE47 :-) Thanks to Carsten for taking the minutes. Fearghas ---- RIPE 46 EIX WG minutes - Wednesday, 5 September 2003 Chaired by: Mike Hughes <mike(a)linx.net>, WG Co-Chair Scribe: Carsten Schiefner <carsten(a)ripe.net> Location: St. Johns II Attendees: 108 Abstract ======== Trends to be seen were: - steady growth - GE or even 10 GE deployed more and more, FE not even available any longer at some IXPs - IPv6 widely deployed - the larger IXP tend to have multiple locations - ongoing evaluation of IXPs' current setup and exploration of future possibilities => no stand-still - some IXPs also host ccTLD secondaries - one IXP consortium also pursues social exchange to foster the co-operation and collaboration with Eastern European IXPs and ISPs There was a brief discussion re. the issue of IPv6 address space not being allowed to be globally advertised by the respective policy. Demand was expressed to alingn and harmonise the policy with both, the other RIRs and existing IPv4 policies. Furthermore, it was suggeted to continue this discussion on the mailing list. 2nd session (after lunch) covered the following presentations: - an update on Euro-IX, the IXP association. Euro-IX intends to support the developement of Quagga with some funds, Quagga is the successor of Zebra, a route server. Also, Euro-IX is about to deploy a peering matrix that will easily give acces to information on which AS is present where. - on the Inter-Provider Traffic Analyzer. This tool uses past data and statistical calculations to detect anomalies in traffic patterns. Useful to become aware of short term glitches, the tool operates on the physical layer. - the anycast deployments of the F, I and K root servers by Netnod, ISC, and the RIPE NCC, respectively. The slightly different strategies were explained which were felt as a strength. However, it was also felt that some coordination would be useful to prevent deployment only at places that have an excellent coverage already anyways. - a brief reminder of the global IXP database maintained by Packet Clearing House and its need to get updates to remain uptodate. It was explicitly mentioned that it also carries "gossip" and not only verified information. The last agenda item covered input/output with the Address Policy and the NCC Services WGs which there was none of. 1st session: 11:00 - 12:30 ========================== Audio archive: mms://webcast.ripe.net/ripe46/eix-1a.wma A. Administrative stuff - apologies from Fearghas McKay, WG Chair - agenda approved as proposed: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/agendas/eix.html B. IXP presentations - Trends to be seen in the presentations from eleven European IXPs were: * steady growth * GE or even 10 GE deployed more and more, FE not even available any longer at some IXPs * IPv6 widely deployed * the larger IXP tend to have multiple locations * ongoing evaluation of IXPs' current setup and exploration of future possibilities => no stand-still * some IXPs also host ccTLD secondaries * one IXP consortium also pursues social exchange to foster the co-operation and collaboration with Eastern European IXPs and ISPs - Netnod, .se - by Kurt Erik Lindqvist: * ??? * there were no questions from the audience, one observation though: use IP phones to contact not just Netnod, but also other IXPs and providers - AMS-IX, .nl - by Henk Steenman: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-amsix.pdf * overview of facts and figures * overview of the three main VLAN services: Peering, GRX and MDX * other services are VLANs for Closed User Groups and for Private Interconnect, furthermore the hosting of secondary ccTLD servers * overview of the current infrastructure and a typical traffic pattern during a week * progress: + renumbering all connections from a /24 to /23 + migration to a next generation platform, replacing the current circle architecture by a star based one. This will provide better scalability and stability and allow to offer trunked x * 1 GE and 10 GE connections + overview of the new topology * next AMS-IX tech meeting to be held in the morning of 24 September, the general meeting in the afternoon, including the election of new board members ? Will the two switches be in the same building? ! No, they will be in different buildings, about 25 km apart. - INEX, .ie - by Brian Boyle: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-inex.pdf * overview of facts and figures: + modeled on LINX * INEX services are IP switching and a framework to facilitate peering and transit, furthermore statistics * INEX news are a new GM, Barry Rhodes, IPv6-readiness, GE enabled, and a new tariff system * the statistics show a steady growth annd considerably less traffic during weekends * overview of the different types of charges and the organisation itself ? When was IPv6 started? ! No detailed information, but earlier this year. - TELEHOUSE/CERN (NYIIX/LAIIX/CIXP), .us & .ch - by Akio Sugeno & Paolo Moroni: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-cern.pdf * overview of NYIIX and LAIIX facts and figures * f.root-servers.net instances deployed recently at both locations * second NYIIX site in operation since July 2003 * customers tend to privately peer via NYIIX as L2 transport became recently considerably cheaper than in-building peering * customers join NYIIX via EoMPLS from very remote places * overview of CIXP facts, figures and recent operational issues * inter-site VLAN services and access to an NTP server are available to CIXP members, IPv6 is about to be deployed * no link or relationship to Zurich based Telehouse Internet Exchange (TIX) ? Were there any operational issues at NYIIX associated with the recent power outage in the north-east of the US? ! No - NYIIX runs back-up generators. ? Is there any concern by the building management running the in-building peering facilities that customers actually use a competitor? ! No information. - N-IX, .de - by Kurt Kayser: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-nix.pdf * overview of facts and figures: + only GE ports offered + private VLANs recommended, e.g. to deliver on SLAs * overview of fees, eight carriers in house * 2nd location in planning * summary + medium sized regional exchange + no membership + extremly low costs + maximum performance * no issues with n-ix.cz because of name clash * there were no questions from the audience - ECIX, .de - by Jan Czmok: * ECIX formerly known as Berlin Internet Exchange * name change necessary to accomodate some changes * ECIX is active in Berlin and Dusseldorf, both location are up and running and ready for peering * member of IKO * aim is to provide local exchange for ISPs * ECIX members sum up to currently five, more to come * IPv4 and v6 ready * FE and GE, SX or LX, available * more information available on the website at: http://www.ecix.de/ * IKO stands for "Internet-Knoten Osteuropa". It is meant to build social networks amongst and with individuals from carriers operating in eastern European countries, in particular those accessing the European Union * IKO was founded in 2003 and currently has twelve members * main office in Berlin, branch office in Wroclaw * more information available on the website at: http://www.iko-ev.org/ ? What is a social network? ! Intent is to create awareness amongst ISPs and carriers in regard to cooperation across borders; currently most of the traffic from eastern European countries is seen to be routed via Scandinavia on one or two routes. Alternative and additional peeerings are about to be deployed in collaboration with people working at carriers and IXPs. Aim is a more diverse structure. ? What are the associated costs and fees for IKO? ! [by Stefan Wahl] Currently being set, will not be a threshold. Basically meant to cover costs occuring from meetings etc. Check the website. ? Are the two exchange locations connected in some sense or the other? ! No, they are complete separate. Berlin is focussed on eastern Europe, when Dusseldorf is ment to be a local/regional exchange. - MIX, .it - by Valeria Rossi: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-mix.pdf * overview of facts and figures * fully operational IPv6 test bed since May 2003, dedicated VLAN for four testing members * Routing Information Service and Test Traffic Measurement to be installed in September 2003 * MIX will also host an instance of i.root-servers.net * other services currently deployed are an NTP service, the Traffic Analyser (see separate presentation), a Member Statistics History and Multicast * there were no questions from the audience - Xchangepoint, .uk - by Keith Mitchell: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-wg-updat… * overview of facts and figures: + European expansion funding secured + new CEO: Richard Almeida + LoNAP interconnect extended * expansion to Netherlands and Germany initially, decision where to go live first (Amsterdam or Frankfurt) to be expected soon * feedback on preferred cities or sites welcome * overview of locations (current and planned) and customer base, growth and services they use * Xchangepoint will not connect cities! * overview of the interconnect with LoNAP: + to date only point-to-point private VLANs + 12 XchangePoint customers and 8 LoNAP members participating: total 29 VLANs * presentation slotted in for the 2nd session on the new European Union telco regulation that came into force in July 2003: postponed to RIPE 47 as it is quite a bit of reading regarding access and dominant market position etc. IXPs will probably not be exempted. However, commenting would be too premature at this very moment * there were no questions from the audience [chairmanship passed on to Christian Panigl] - LINX, .uk - by Mike Hughes: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-linx.pdf * overview of facts and figures * overview of next year's pricing scheme: + increased weight towards traffic, lesss weight on mere ports + membership and joining fees be reduced by 25% * other developments include: + electronic voting by the LINX members + members' request to deploy optional(!) multi-lateral route reflectors + the possibility to deploy BENTO * enabling anycast for i.root-servers.net (LINX hosts its first and so far only instance) went smooth * secondarying ccTLDs such as .at. and be * there were no questions from the audience [chairmanship taken back from Christian Panigl] - NIX, .cz - by Josef Chomyn: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-nixcz.pdf * overview of facts, figures and conditions, e.g. the difference between members (legal entities in the Czech Republic) and customers (others) * outline of the 2004 fee structure * outline of the Cisco-based infrastructure * IPv6-ready. NIX wants to have public servers, e.g. a web server, on the IPv6 network - according to the current policy this is not possible as IXP /48s should not be publically annnounced * developments include a traffic analyser as a result of a diploma thesis (suprising results, revealed a lot of unwanted traffic caused by misconfigurations on the members' side and the replacement of Linux-based routers with Cisco for NIX' own AS and infrastructure ? (Bill Woodcock) IPv6 space allocated to IXPs should not be announced to anywhere else on the Internet. Current efforts to harmonise policies across the four RIRs - APNIC recently removed this requirement. What is the feeling of the audience about it? ! (Keith Mitchell) Policies should be harmonised. However, to his understanding the current RIPE policy is not prohibitive, but merely states that global routability is not ensured. ! (Lars-Johan Liman) Announcing an IXP's network can create quite complicated error situations, policy should follow operational issues. ! (Arien Vijn) Ditto, issues were to solved at AMS-IX only´ yesterday resulting from a global announcement. ! (Keith Mitchell) Should be up to the IXP operator to decide, rather than to the registry. Also it would seem to be logical to have a similar IPv4 policy, too. Harmonisation seems to be necessary. ! (Mike Hughes) Ditto - tell your customers to defend themselves against more specific routes. ! (Bernard Tuy) No more specific prefixes than /32s should be announced - so the /48s of IXPs just can't be announced according to the policy. ! (Mike Hughes) /32 rule is assignment policy that doesn't say anything about announcements. Do not mix up policy and operational issues! ? (Ruediger Volk) Are the servers supposed to sit on the peering network or is a separate network envisaged? If former is pursued: better keep out of it! ! (Josef Chomyn) Servers migrated from various ISPs to IXP location one by one. With IPv4 there is no problem: a /24 for the peering mesh, another /24 for the servers acting as a customer towards the IXP. This just not possible with IPv6. What to do? ! (Mike Hughes) This appears to be an address policy issue that may need to be reviewed. Discussion should continue on the mailing list if needed. ! (Henk Steenman) Take addresses from more than one connected ISPs and assign multiple addresses to each server. AMS-IX did so and can provide a document outlining this. 2nd session: 14:00 - 15:30 ========================== Audio archive: mms://webcast.ripe.net/ripe46/eix-2a.wma - LoNAP, .uk - by James Rice: * LoNAP established in 1998, now in three premises * 100 Mbit and 1 Gbit connections available * switching fabric is Cisco based * several VLANs defined, such as for IPv4 multicast * fee structure on a per-year basis, includes ports an VLANs * one-off joining fee, includes the cabling etc. * LoNAP has 42 members at the moment, slightly increasing * multicast fabric collapsed into a VLAN * IPv6: three members peering with the route collector at the moment, on the same peering fabric in a separate VLAN * point-to-point private VLANs with Xchangepoint to be expanded to IPv6 as well * there were no questions from the audience - Euro-IX - by Serge Radovcic: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-euroix.p… * about Euro-IX itself: aims etc. * overview of facts and figures * IXPs to join Euro-IX: contact Serge or Christian Panigl * the database on the website lists more than 1,300 IXP peers now * an IXP peering matrix is about to be deployed soon that will easily give acces to information on which AS is present where * information on the switches being used by member IXPs to be found on the members-only pages * Fearghas McKay represented Euro-IX at the 2nd Latin American Regional NAP meeting in Buenos Aires, Argentina + some Latin American NAPs expressed interest in visiting European IXPs * announcement of the 3rd Euro-IX Forum on 3rd and 4th of November in Lisbon, Portugal * Euro-IX' General Meeting to be held in conjunction with the Forum + three board seats becoming vacant to be filled ! (Christian Panigl) Euro-IX intends to support the developement of Quagga with some funds, Quagga is the successor of Zebra, a route server - Inter-Providers Traffic Analyzer - by Matheo Labanti: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-mix-anal… * a tool that uses past data and statistical calculations to detect anomalies and failures in traffic patterns * Useful to become aware of short term glitches * the tool operates on the physical layer * brief overview of the components and how they work together; full blown presentation to be given during Euro-IX Forum in November * examples were shown * there were no questions from the audience - Anycasting f.root-servers.net - by Joao Damas: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-dn-f-root.pdf * it is about improving DNS infrastructure and user experience, but not about competition * technical setup explained in detail at: http://www.isc.org/tn/isc-tn-2003-1.txt * distinction between 'global nodes' (no restrictions on BGP announcements) and 'local nodes' (no-export community), the latter preferrably to be installed at IXPs. Reason is that (D)DoS attacks often do not affect su much the box itself, but the bandwidth of a particular ISP. This setup ensures that even if one ISP goes down, the others still get the service * explanation of the general deployment scheme: black box principle connected to the IXP with several servers inside, one of them acting only as a monitoring and control box with OOB accces from a Management Transit Provider to the consoles of the servers * all nodes announce f's /24 and AS; additionally they have a second /24 and AS each, provided by the Management Transit Provider, to access them separately * two global nodes in San Francisco and Palo Alto with OSPF load balancing * various local ones on all five continents already deployed, more to come * there were no questions from the audience - Anycasting i.root-servers.net - by Kurt Erik Lindqvist: * i is operated by Autonomica, a 100% subsidiary of Netnod * again, anycast deployment is no race to outcompete other root server operators * plan 20 have 20 - 25 instances for i within a year * two strategies: operated by Netnod itself with own equipment, but also in cooperation with Packet Clearing House * two types of nodes: at IXPs and with ISPs, focus is on IXPs. ISPs would be large Tier 1 providers * site should provide about eight units rack space, power and hands-on-site; preferrably also a prefix and some bandwidth from the local host to manage the node * no no-export communities, up to the peers to decide about their announcement strategies. pros and cons for this, though * Netnod provides the hardware, but decided not to publish the detailed technical setup * plans to provide anycast for any TLD out of this infrastructure * short desription of where instances are currently deployed and what is planned for the near future ? (Henk Steenman) Criterias to pick a loctaion? ! No real criteria, traffic flow analysis could be one. However, it turned out to be almost impossible for Netnod to do. So major "Internet impact" sites are a pick, but also where a local community will benefit from the deployment ? (Christian Panigl) One reason for anycasting is to catch (D)DoS attacks. Woudn't it make sense to have instances close to where these attacks mainly originate from? ! That is why Netnod goes to large IXPs and Tier 1 providers to pick up the traffaic as early - or close to the source, respectively - as possible. Another incentive to go to places with higher RTTs ? Financial aspects? ! No investment by the local host neede, all is paid for by Netnod, except for costs such as rack space, power or transit - Anycasting k.root-servers.net - by Andrei Robachevsky: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-k-anycas… * two instances deployed at LINX and AMS-IX * cluster of two servers with NSD and a sniffer box * global reachability * funded by the RIPE NCC, AMS-IX provides 1G port * objectives are the improvement of access to k, the impact isolation of an external (D)DoS attack and the impact localisation of a local one * locations likely to be IXPs, hosted and fully funded by a neutral party with an open peering policy * operations exclusively performed by the RIPE NCC * single box solution, capable of handling six times the average load, with DNS server, router and sniffer * also here, next to the service network (local, but also global if coordinated) there is a management network * announcement of a more in-depth discussion later this day and a next day's presentation on technical setup and experience gained ? (Keith Mitchell) Own AS per instance? ! Own AS for k, regardless the instance. ? (Rob Blokzijl) Coordination amongst the operators? All tend to go to large IXPs: does that create complications? ! Actually not. One of the goals is to mitigate (D)DoS attacks, so an attack only on k will not harm i - even in the same location. Also, the models are different. ! (Rob Blokzijl) Differences in approach are a strength, also deployment for local communities. ! (Kurt Erik Lindqvist) Some level of coodination. However, only three present here, but more actually doing anycast. ! (Rob Blokzijl) Good development, also for political reasons: makes it impossible to hijack or take dwon the root. ! (Lars-Johan Leman) Some overlap is good, but not a total overlap. The own interests of the IXPs would prevent this anyways by balancing it out. ! (Keith Mitchell) Coordination could be organised by ICANN's RSSAC, also off-line security should be considered. ! (Lars-Johan Leman) RSSAC has been incapable to give advise, that is why the operatorts themselves do it. ! (Andrei Robachevsky) IXPs to ccordinate location of two instances themselves, considering the type of service they host. ? How much for a k instance and how many are planned? ! (Andrei Robachevsky) In the order of EUR 5,000 per box, some 15, maybe even 20 planned. Global reachability as a requirement will come at a later stage, then probably at net topologically aequidistant locations. ! (Joao Damas) Aequidistance might be a problem. - IXP database - by Bill Woodcock: http://www.pch.net/resources/data/exchange-points/ * Packet Clearing House mainatines and publishes an EXCEL spreadsheet covering all IXPs around the planet * regularly updated, request to send in updates * carries also gossip, not only hard facts as it is sometimes hard to find out about an IXP * there were no questions from the audience - No exchange with either Address Policy WG or NCC Services WG. - No AOB. End of RIPE 46 EIX WG meeting.

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RIPE 46 EIX-WG Draft Minutes
by Mike Hughes 13 Nov '03

13 Nov '03

Hi all, Please find below a Draft copy of the minutes of the EIX-WG at RIPE46, taken by Carsten Schiefner. Let me know if you see any factual inaccuracies, errors or significant omissions, as soon as possible, and before the 24th November. Thanks, Mike ------------------------------------------------------------------- RIPE 46 EIX WG minutes - Wednesday, 5 September 2003 Chaired by: Mike Hughes <mike(a)linx.net>, WG Co-Chair Scribe: Carsten Schiefner <carsten(a)ripe.net> Location: St. Johns II Attendees: 108 Abstract ======== Trends to be seen were: - steady growth - GE or even 10 GE deployed more and more, FE not even available any longer at some IXPs - IPv6 widely deployed - the larger IXP tend to have multiple locations - ongoing evaluation of IXPs' current setup and exploration of future possibilities => no stand-still - some IXPs also host ccTLD secondaries - one IXP consortium also pursues social exchange to foster the co-operation and collaboration with Eastern European IXPs and ISPs There was a brief discussion re. the issue of IPv6 address space not being allowed to be globally advertised by the respective policy. Demand was expressed to alingn and harmonise the policy with both, the other RIRs and existing IPv4 policies. Furthermore, it was suggeted to continue this discussion on the mailing list. 2nd session (after lunch) covered the following presentations: - an update on Euro-IX, the IXP association. Euro-IX intends to support the developement of Quagga with some funds, Quagga is the successor of Zebra, a route server. Also, Euro-IX is about to deploy a peering matrix that will easily give acces to information on which AS is present where. - on the Inter-Provider Traffic Analyzer. This tool uses past data and statistical calculations to detect anomalies in traffic patterns. Useful to become aware of short term glitches, the tool operates on the physical layer. - the anycast deployments of the F, I and K root servers by Netnod, ISC, and the RIPE NCC, respectively. The slightly different strategies were explained which were felt as a strength. However, it was also felt that some coordination would be useful to prevent deployment only at places that have an excellent coverage already anyways. - a brief reminder of the global IXP database maintained by Packet Clearing House and its need to get updates to remain uptodate. It was explicitly mentioned that it also carries "gossip" and not only verified information. The last agenda item covered input/output with the Address Policy and the NCC Services WGs which there was none of. 1st session: 11:00 - 12:30 ========================== Audio archive: mms://webcast.ripe.net/ripe46/eix-1a.wma A. Administrative stuff - apologies from Fearghas McKay, WG Chair - agenda approved as proposed: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/agendas/eix.html B. IXP presentations - Trends to be seen in the presentations from eleven European IXPs were: * steady growth * GE or even 10 GE deployed more and more, FE not even available any longer at some IXPs * IPv6 widely deployed * the larger IXP tend to have multiple locations * ongoing evaluation of IXPs' current setup and exploration of future possibilities => no stand-still * some IXPs also host ccTLD secondaries * one IXP consortium also pursues social exchange to foster the co-operation and collaboration with Eastern European IXPs and ISPs - Netnod, .se - by Kurt Erik Lindqvist: * ??? * there were no questions from the audience, one observation though: use IP phones to contact not just Netnod, but also other IXPs and providers - AMS-IX, .nl - by Henk Steenman: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-amsix.pdf * overview of facts and figures * overview of the three main VLAN services: Peering, GRX and MDX * other services are VLANs for Closed User Groups and for Private Interconnect, furthermore the hosting of secondary ccTLD servers * overview of the current infrastructure and a typical traffic pattern during a week * progress: + renumbering all connections from a /24 to /23 + migration to a next generation platform, replacing the current circle architecture by a star based one. This will provide better scalability and stability and allow to offer trunked x * 1 GE and 10 GE connections + overview of the new topology * next AMS-IX tech meeting to be held in the morning of 24 September, the general meeting in the afternoon, including the election of new board members ? Will the two switches be in the same building? ! No, they will be in different buildings, about 25 km apart. - INEX, .ie - by Brian Boyle: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-inex.pdf * overview of facts and figures: + modeled on LINX * INEX services are IP switching and a framework to facilitate peering and transit, furthermore statistics * INEX news are a new GM, Barry Rhodes, IPv6-readiness, GE enabled, and a new tariff system * the statistics show a steady growth annd considerably less traffic during weekends * overview of the different types of charges and the organisation itself ? When was IPv6 started? ! No detailed information, but earlier this year. - TELEHOUSE/CERN (NYIIX/LAIIX/CIXP), .us & .ch - by Akio Sugeno & Paolo Moroni: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-cern.pdf * overview of NYIIX and LAIIX facts and figures * f.root-servers.net instances deployed recently at both locations * second NYIIX site in operation since July 2003 * customers tend to privately peer via NYIIX as L2 transport became recently considerably cheaper than in-building peering * customers join NYIIX via EoMPLS from very remote places * overview of CIXP facts, figures and recent operational issues * inter-site VLAN services and access to an NTP server are available to CIXP members, IPv6 is about to be deployed * no link or relationship to Zurich based Telehouse Internet Exchange (TIX) ? Were there any operational issues at NYIIX associated with the recent power outage in the north-east of the US? ! No - NYIIX runs back-up generators. ? Is there any concern by the building management running the in-building peering facilities that customers actually use a competitor? ! No information. - N-IX, .de - by Kurt Kayser: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-nix.pdf * overview of facts and figures: + only GE ports offered + private VLANs recommended, e.g. to deliver on SLAs * overview of fees, eight carriers in house * 2nd location in planning * summary + medium sized regional exchange + no membership + extremly low costs + maximum performance * no issues with n-ix.cz because of name clash * there were no questions from the audience - ECIX, .de - by Jan Czmok: * ECIX formerly known as Berlin Internet Exchange * name change necessary to accomodate some changes * ECIX is active in Berlin and Dusseldorf, both location are up and running and ready for peering * member of IKO * aim is to provide local exchange for ISPs * ECIX members sum up to currently five, more to come * IPv4 and v6 ready * FE and GE, SX or LX, available * more information available on the website at: http://www.ecix.de/ * IKO stands for "Internet-Knoten Osteuropa". It is meant to build social networks amongst and with individuals from carriers operating in eastern European countries, in particular those accessing the European Union * IKO was founded in 2003 and currently has twelve members * main office in Berlin, branch office in Wroclaw * more information available on the website at: http://www.iko-ev.org/ ? What is a social network? ! Intent is to create awareness amongst ISPs and carriers in regard to cooperation across borders; currently most of the traffic from eastern European countries is seen to be routed via Scandinavia on one or two routes. Alternative and additional peeerings are about to be deployed in collaboration with people working at carriers and IXPs. Aim is a more diverse structure. ? What are the associated costs and fees for IKO? ! [by Stefan Wahl] Currently being set, will not be a threshold. Basically meant to cover costs occuring from meetings etc. Check the website. ? Are the two exchange locations connected in some sense or the other? ! No, they are complete separate. Berlin is focussed on eastern Europe, when Dusseldorf is ment to be a local/regional exchange. - MIX, .it - by Valeria Rossi: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-mix.pdf * overview of facts and figures * fully operational IPv6 test bed since May 2003, dedicated VLAN for four testing members * Routing Information Service and Test Traffic Measurement to be installed in September 2003 * MIX will also host an instance of i.root-servers.net * other services currently deployed are an NTP service, the Traffic Analyser (see separate presentation), a Member Statistics History and Multicast * there were no questions from the audience - Xchangepoint, .uk - by Keith Mitchell: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-wg-updat… * overview of facts and figures: + European expansion funding secured + new CEO: Richard Almeida + LoNAP interconnect extended * expansion to Netherlands and Germany initially, decision where to go live first (Amsterdam or Frankfurt) to be expected soon * feedback on preferred cities or sites welcome * overview of locations (current and planned) and customer base, growth and services they use * Xchangepoint will not connect cities! * overview of the interconnect with LoNAP: + to date only point-to-point private VLANs + 12 XchangePoint customers and 8 LoNAP members participating: total 29 VLANs * presentation slotted in for the 2nd session on the new European Union telco regulation that came into force in July 2003: postponed to RIPE 47 as it is quite a bit of reading regarding access and dominant market position etc. IXPs will probably not be exempted. However, commenting would be too premature at this very moment * there were no questions from the audience [chairmanship passed on to Christian Panigl] - LINX, .uk - by Mike Hughes: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-linx.pdf * overview of facts and figures * overview of next year's pricing scheme: + increased weight towards traffic, lesss weight on mere ports + membership and joining fees be reduced by 25% * other developments include: + electronic voting by the LINX members + members' request to deploy optional(!) multi-lateral route reflectors + the possibility to deploy BENTO * enabling anycast for i.root-servers.net (LINX hosts its first and so far only instance) went smooth * secondarying ccTLDs such as .at. and be * there were no questions from the audience [chairmanship taken back from Christian Panigl] - NIX, .cz - by Josef Chomyn: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-nixcz.pdf * overview of facts, figures and conditions, e.g. the difference between members (legal entities in the Czech Republic) and customers (others) * outline of the 2004 fee structure * outline of the Cisco-based infrastructure * IPv6-ready. NIX wants to have public servers, e.g. a web server, on the IPv6 network - according to the current policy this is not possible as IXP /48s should not be publically annnounced * developments include a traffic analyser as a result of a diploma thesis (suprising results, revealed a lot of unwanted traffic caused by misconfigurations on the members' side and the replacement of Linux-based routers with Cisco for NIX' own AS and infrastructure ? (Bill Woodcock) IPv6 space allocated to IXPs should not be announced to anywhere else on the Internet. Current efforts to harmonise policies across the four RIRs - APNIC recently removed this requirement. What is the feeling of the audience about it? ! (Keith Mitchell) Policies should be harmonised. However, to his understanding the current RIPE policy is not prohibitive, but merely states that global routability is not ensured. ! (Lars-Johan Liman) Announcing an IXP's network can create quite complicated error situations, policy should follow operational issues. ! (Arien Vijn) Ditto, issues were to solved at AMS-IX only´ yesterday resulting from a global announcement. ! (Keith Mitchell) Should be up to the IXP operator to decide, rather than to the registry. Also it would seem to be logical to have a similar IPv4 policy, too. Harmonisation seems to be necessary. ! (Mike Hughes) Ditto - tell your customers to defend themselves against more specific routes. ! (Bernard Tuy) No more specific prefixes than /32s should be announced - so the /48s of IXPs just can't be announced according to the policy. ! (Mike Hughes) /32 rule is assignment policy that doesn't say anything about announcements. Do not mix up policy and operational issues! ? (Ruediger Volk) Are the servers supposed to sit on the peering network or is a separate network envisaged? If former is pursued: better keep out of it! ! (Josef Chomyn) Servers migrated from various ISPs to IXP location one by one. With IPv4 there is no problem: a /24 for the peering mesh, another /24 for the servers acting as a customer towards the IXP. This just not possible with IPv6. What to do? ! (Mike Hughes) This appears to be an address policy issue that may need to be reviewed. Discussion should continue on the mailing list if needed. ! (Henk Steenman) Take addresses from more than one connected ISPs and assign multiple addresses to each server. AMS-IX did so and can provide a document outlining this. 2nd session: 14:00 - 15:30 ========================== Audio archive: mms://webcast.ripe.net/ripe46/eix-2a.wma - LoNAP, .uk - by James Rice: * LoNAP established in 1998, now in three premises * 100 Mbit and 1 Gbit connections available * switching fabric is Cisco based * several VLANs defined, such as for IPv4 multicast * fee structure on a per-year basis, includes ports an VLANs * one-off joining fee, includes the cabling etc. * LoNAP has 42 members at the moment, slightly increasing * multicast fabric collapsed into a VLAN * IPv6: three members peering with the route collector at the moment, on the same peering fabric in a separate VLAN * point-to-point private VLANs with Xchangepoint to be expanded to IPv6 as well * there were no questions from the audience - Euro-IX - by Serge Radovcic: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-euroix.p… * about Euro-IX itself: aims etc. * overview of facts and figures * IXPs to join Euro-IX: contact Serge or Christian Panigl * the database on the website lists more than 1,300 IXP peers now * an IXP peering matrix is about to be deployed soon that will easily give acces to information on which AS is present where * information on the switches being used by member IXPs to be found on the members-only pages * Fearghas McKay represented Euro-IX at the 2nd Latin American Regional NAP meeting in Buenos Aires, Argentina + some Latin American NAPs expressed interest in visiting European IXPs * announcement of the 3rd Euro-IX Forum on 3rd and 4th of November in Lisbon, Portugal * Euro-IX' General Meeting to be held in conjunction with the Forum + three board seats becoming vacant to be filled ! (Christian Panigl) Euro-IX intends to support the developement of Quagga with some funds, Quagga is the successor of Zebra, a route server - Inter-Providers Traffic Analyzer - by Matheo Labanti: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-mix-anal… * a tool that uses past data and statistical calculations to detect anomalies and failures in traffic patterns * Useful to become aware of short term glitches * the tool operates on the physical layer * brief overview of the components and how they work together; full blown presentation to be given during Euro-IX Forum in November * examples were shown * there were no questions from the audience - Anycasting f.root-servers.net - by Joao Damas: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-dn-f-root.pdf * it is about improving DNS infrastructure and user experience, but not about competition * technical setup explained in detail at: http://www.isc.org/tn/isc-tn-2003-1.txt * distinction between 'global nodes' (no restrictions on BGP announcements) and 'local nodes' (no-export community), the latter preferrably to be installed at IXPs. Reason is that (D)DoS attacks often do not affect su much the box itself, but the bandwidth of a particular ISP. This setup ensures that even if one ISP goes down, the others still get the service * explanation of the general deployment scheme: black box principle connected to the IXP with several servers inside, one of them acting only as a monitoring and control box with OOB accces from a Management Transit Provider to the consoles of the servers * all nodes announce f's /24 and AS; additionally they have a second /24 and AS each, provided by the Management Transit Provider, to access them separately * two global nodes in San Francisco and Palo Alto with OSPF load balancing * various local ones on all five continents already deployed, more to come * there were no questions from the audience - Anycasting i.root-servers.net - by Kurt Erik Lindqvist: * i is operated by Autonomica, a 100% subsidiary of Netnod * again, anycast deployment is no race to outcompete other root server operators * plan 20 have 20 - 25 instances for i within a year * two strategies: operated by Netnod itself with own equipment, but also in cooperation with Packet Clearing House * two types of nodes: at IXPs and with ISPs, focus is on IXPs. ISPs would be large Tier 1 providers * site should provide about eight units rack space, power and hands-on-site; preferrably also a prefix and some bandwidth from the local host to manage the node * no no-export communities, up to the peers to decide about their announcement strategies. pros and cons for this, though * Netnod provides the hardware, but decided not to publish the detailed technical setup * plans to provide anycast for any TLD out of this infrastructure * short desription of where instances are currently deployed and what is planned for the near future ? (Henk Steenman) Criterias to pick a loctaion? ! No real criteria, traffic flow analysis could be one. However, it turned out to be almost impossible for Netnod to do. So major "Internet impact" sites are a pick, but also where a local community will benefit from the deployment ? (Christian Panigl) One reason for anycasting is to catch (D)DoS attacks. Woudn't it make sense to have instances close to where these attacks mainly originate from? ! That is why Netnod goes to large IXPs and Tier 1 providers to pick up the traffaic as early - or close to the source, respectively - as possible. Another incentive to go to places with higher RTTs ? Financial aspects? ! No investment by the local host neede, all is paid for by Netnod, except for costs such as rack space, power or transit - Anycasting k.root-servers.net - by Andrei Robachevsky: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ripe46-eix-k-anycas… * two instances deployed at LINX and AMS-IX * cluster of two servers with NSD and a sniffer box * global reachability * funded by the RIPE NCC, AMS-IX provides 1G port * objectives are the improvement of access to k, the impact isolation of an external (D)DoS attack and the impact localisation of a local one * locations likely to be IXPs, hosted and fully funded by a neutral party with an open peering policy * operations exclusively performed by the RIPE NCC * single box solution, capable of handling six times the average load, with DNS server, router and sniffer * also here, next to the service network (local, but also global if coordinated) there is a management network * announcement of a more in-depth discussion later this day and a next day's presentation on technical setup and experience gained ? (Keith Mitchell) Own AS per instance? ! Own AS for k, regardless the instance. ? (Rob Blokzijl) Coordination amongst the operators? All tend to go to large IXPs: does that create complications? ! Actually not. One of the goals is to mitigate (D)DoS attacks, so an attack only on k will not harm i - even in the same location. Also, the models are different. ! (Rob Blokzijl) Differences in approach are a strength, also deployment for local communities. ! (Kurt Erik Lindqvist) Some level of coodination. However, only three present here, but more actually doing anycast. ! (Rob Blokzijl) Good development, also for political reasons: makes it impossible to hijack or take dwon the root. ! (Lars-Johan Leman) Some overlap is good, but not a total overlap. The own interests of the IXPs would prevent this anyways by balancing it out. ! (Keith Mitchell) Coordination could be organised by ICANN's RSSAC, also off-line security should be considered. ! (Lars-Johan Leman) RSSAC has been incapable to give advise, that is why the operatorts themselves do it. ! (Andrei Robachevsky) IXPs to ccordinate location of two instances themselves, considering the type of service they host. ? How much for a k instance and how many are planned? ! (Andrei Robachevsky) In the order of EUR 5,000 per box, some 15, maybe even 20 planned. Global reachability as a requirement will come at a later stage, then probably at net topologically aequidistant locations. ! (Joao Damas) Aequidistance might be a problem. - IXP database - by Bill Woodcock: http://www.pch.net/resources/data/exchange-points/ * Packet Clearing House mainatines and publishes an EXCEL spreadsheet covering all IXPs around the planet * regularly updated, request to send in updates * carries also gossip, not only hard facts as it is sometimes hard to find out about an IXP * there were no questions from the audience - No exchange with either Address Policy WG or NCC Services WG. - No AOB. End of RIPE 46 EIX WG meeting.

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bgp behavior with exchange prefix in ebgp
by Iljitsch van Beijnum 02 Oct '03

02 Oct '03

Dear EIXers, I thought I'd expand on my comments in the EIX session earlier this week. In a network that peers over an exchange, you'll see routes like this in the BGP table: Network Next Hop Metric LocPrf Weight Path *>i62.3.192.0/18 193.148.15.112 200 110 0 6728 i *>i62.8.128.0/17 193.148.15.209 110 0 9132 ? *>i62.12.128.0/17 193.148.15.224 1100 110 0 15623 i Note that the next hop points to an address that falls within the (old) AMS-IX peering LAN prefix. Since this router isn't directly connected to the AMS-IX, it needs to resolve this next hop: Routing entry for 193.148.15.0/24 Known via "ospf 1", distance 110, metric 20, type extern 2, forward metric 1 Last update from 62.212.94.61 on GigabitEthernet1/0.1, 00:00:41 ago Routing Descriptor Blocks: * 62.212.94.61, from 62.212.80.68, 00:00:41 ago, via GigabitEthernet1/0.1 Route metric is 20, traffic share count is 1 So in this case the peering LAN prefix is announced over OSPF, so the next hop resolves correctly and all the traffic is sent to the next router, which is the one directly connected to the AMS-IX here. Now consider what happens when someone elsewhere announces the peering LAN prefix over EBGP (this is taken from route-views.oregon-ix.net) BGP routing table entry for 193.148.15.0/24, version 426250 Paths: (1 available, best #1, table Default-IP-Routing-Table) Not advertised to any peer 3277 8482 28968 3246 1200 194.85.4.249 from 194.85.4.249 (194.85.4.249) Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, external, best And: Routing entry for 193.148.15.0/24 Known via "bgp 6447", distance 20, metric 0 Tag 3277, type external Last update from 194.85.4.249 03:30:30 ago Routing Descriptor Blocks: * 194.85.4.249, from 194.85.4.249, 03:30:30 ago Route metric is 0, traffic share count is 1 AS Hops 5 The important part here is that the 193.148.15.0/24 prefix in OSPF has an administrative distance of 110, while the EBGP route shown here has a much lower administrative distance of 20. This means that the next hop address for the AMS-IX would resolve to an EBGP neighbor and all traffic to exchange peers is redirected over this neighbor! Now fortunately this only happens for routers that learn the peering LAN prefix over EBGP, so the impact is usually limited, but it's well worth the effort to filter out the peering LAN prefixes you connect to yourself. What happened this week at AMS-IX was even more fun: the new prefix for the peering LAN is a /23, but someone started to announce a /24 within that /24. (Probably typed ... 255.255.255.0 rather than ... 255.255.254.0, easy mistake.) The rule that kicked in now wasn't the relatively minor "EBGP has a lower administrative distance than IGPs" but the much heavier "longest match first" one. So in this case even the next hop resolved to an external route on the AMS-IX connected routers themselves, breaking the peering sessions. Iljitsch van Beijnum

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ISC installed an f.root-servers.net instance in Johannesburg
by Carsten Schiefner 01 Oct '03

01 Oct '03

All, only remotely related (not in the RIPE region) - however, may still be of some interest as we had three presentation on this very topic during RIPE 46, furthermore the box is installed at JINX, the Johannesburg Internet exchange. http://www.itweb.co.za/sections/internet/2003/0309260853.asp Regrads, Carsten

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Next phase in deploying anycast instances of k.root-servers.net
by Andrei Robachevsky 22 Sep '03

22 Sep '03

Dear colleague, After discussions at the last RIPE Meeting, we would like to clarify our current thinking about adding further anycast instances to k.root-servers.net. This message sets out the direction and further details the requirements for hosting such an instance and calls for expressions of interest from the Internet community to support this activity. I look forward to your support. Best regards, Andrei Robachevsky CTO, RIPE NCC General requirements and guidelines for expressions of interest for hosting a mirror instance of k.root-servers.net ============================================================== Introduction ------------ The RIPE NCC operates k.root-servers.net, one of the servers used as a name server for the DNS root zone. In order to further improve the distribution of the service in various Internet regions and its resilience against DDoS attacks the RIPE NCC is deploying mirror instances of the server worldwide as described in the ripe document "Distributing K-Root Service by Anycast Routing of 193.0.14.129" (RIPE 268). The first phase of this project included moving the cold standby instance of the server to service using anycast routing. This phase was completed in July 2003 and k.root-servers.net is currently deployed in two locations (LINX, London and AMS-IX, Amsterdam). The next phase will be mostly focused on the deployment of nodes with limited reachability in the RIPE NCC service region. The main motivation for this phase is: - Improving access to k.root-servers.net for a significant ISP community. - Isolating impact of an "external" DDoS attack. - Localising impact of a "local" DDoS attack. This document sets the direction and further details the requirements for hosting an instance of the k.root-servers.net server so that interested organisations may understand the general intentions and requirements of this phase of the project. Organisations wishing to express their interest in supporting this important activity may do so by following the guidelines below. Physical Sites -------------- Suitable sites for the location of mirror instances of the k.root-servers.net server will in most cases include an Internet exchange (IX) that offers a very high standard of infrastructure and Internet connectivity. The members of the IX should represent a significant ISP community in the region. In terms of physical infrastructure and services, a hosting site must satisfy the general requirements for root server locations, which are described in section 3.1 of RFC2870. Server Hardware --------------- All hardware for the instance of k.root-servers.net will be supplied at the host's expense. In most cases a typical configuration will be assembled by the RIPE NCC and shipped to the hosting site. The hardware will remain the property of the host, but will be operated solely by the RIPE NCC. The host will be asked to provide onsite physical support. However there is no requirement for the host to perform maintenance on the systems themselves, and administrative access will not be available. Connectivity and reachability ----------------------------- Though global reachability is not required for the instance of the k.root-servers.net server, it is critical that access to the server is provided in an open and non-discriminative manner to all members of the IX. However, it is important that global transit is co-ordinated with the RIPE NCC. Requirements for reachability are different for the management network of k.root-servers.net that is used by the RIPE NCC to perform system administration. It is required that connectivity of the management network is global and reliable. Expressions of Interest ----------------------- The RIPE NCC invites expressions of interest from organisations such as Internet Exchanges or other organisations that represent a significant ISP community in the region. Expressions of Interest should include details of the support which is being offered, such as hosting and connectivity. Please provide as much detail as possible, including physical infrastructure details, upstream and peer network connectivity details, and bandwidth availability. Please refer specifically to the provisions of RFC2870 in your response. Please send expressions of interest to: k-anycast(a)ripe.net If any further information is required, please also use this address.

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RIPE 46 Presentations
by Mike Hughes 04 Sep '03

04 Sep '03

Hi all, Most presentations from the RIPE 46 EIX working group are now available online at http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-46/presentations/ If your presentation was not run from the RIPE supplied laptop, or does not appear on the above webpage, please email it to webmaster(a)ripe.net. Thanks, Mike -- Mike Hughes Chief Technical Officer London Internet Exchange mike(a)linx.net http://www.linx.net/ "Only one thing in life is certain: init is Process #1"

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K-anycast future deployment plans
by Andrei Robachevsky 28 Aug '03

28 Aug '03

Dear Colleagues, As you may know there will be two presentations related to K-anycast project at the RIPE meeting: a short one at the eix-wg outlining RIPE NCC's plans for future anycast deployment and hosting requirements, and one at the dn*-wg discussing the current technical setup of K and its operation. We also though it would be useful to have a separate meeting inviting those who has interest in hosting an instance of K, to discuss NCC's deployment plans, proposed setup and requirements in more detail and collect your feedback. We booked the Dam Room (first floor) for the meeting for Wednesday, 3.09, 17.30-18.30. Regards, Andrei Robachevsky CTO, RIPE NCC

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EIX WG - Agenda Call for RIPE 46
by Fearghas McKay 12 Aug '03

12 Aug '03

Greetings The format is changing slightly - we are going to have two sessions one with IXP update presentations similar to the Euro-IX ones just focussing on growth, new technology, services etc aimed at ISPs primarily. To speed the updates we want to have a single laptop with everyone's presentation in advance so we can rattle through. Time limit will be circa 3 mins for previous presenters and 5 for new presentations. If you would like to present please send a note to myself & Mike Hughes <mike(a)linx.net> by August 27th. We will try to take late comers but there will only be the one session. The update should focus on background, growth and recent developments but should not include case studies in upgrades etc, they should be in the second session. Please send copies of your presentation to Mike and myself by September 1st so we can get them organised in time. The second session is where the " we did this and it was not fun " or "here are some interesting ideas", etc. items can go rather than being in the update presentation. The second session has a few preliminary items and more will be welcome. Again if possible we would like the presentations by September 1st so we can have a single laptop. Thanks Fearghas EIX-WG RIPE 46 Wednesday 3 September 2003 St Johns II Krasnapolsky Hotel Session One 11:00-12:30 0 Scribe Agenda Bashing 1 IXP presentations Lunch Break Session Two 14:00-15:30 2 Presentions Euro-IX update Regulatory Implications of Recent EU Directives for IXP Operators - Keith Mitchell Hosting a .root server - 3 short presentations from the root operators in the RIPE region explaining what they are looking for in a location - NetNOD, ISC & RIPE-NCC An overview of the PCH IXP database - Bill Woodcock 3 RIPE Address Policy & NCC-Sevices issues 4 AOCB

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Regarding the IPv6 Request Form for Internet Exchange Points
by Aleksi Suhonen 11 Aug '03

11 Aug '03

Hello, The robot at hostmaster@ seems to mistake the IPv6 form for IXPs as an IPv4 form? When you others on this list applied for your address space, did you just send it directly as NO AUTO? And additionally, as there is no published IPv4 procedure for exchanges, how have you handled this situation? (Any other words of experience that might help me? ;-) -- Aleksi Suhonen / +358 45 6702048 TREX Tampere Region Exchange Oy www.trextampereregionexchange.fi

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