January 2001 - eix-wg - mailman.ripe.net

EIX BCP document discussion
by Nic Lewis 27 Mar '01

27 Mar '01

Dear All, As agreed at RIPE38 EIX-WG, herewith a brief summary of the various documents, activities, suggestions etc that has evolved from the work carried out towards the EIX BCP project, for comment and discussion. I have (roughly) divided the summary into 3 areas, 'ISP focussed' - matters that I perceive as having use or value largely to the ISP community, (but without differentiation between what may be of use to ISPs already present at IXPs, and what may be of use to ISPs wishing to start building a presence at IXPs.), 'IXP focussed' - matters that I perceive as having use or value largely to the IXP operator community, and 'Other' - for miscellaneous stuff. This summary is not exhaustive, nor is the structure or way in which I have separated the subjects expected to be any more than a starting point, (there is substantial overlap between many of the subjects), but hopefully it will be a reasonable basis for further discussion and progress. An important note to make is that there are a number of related activities by other parties underway, some toward the same goals and some that may have influence on, or be influenced by, this work. To try and avoid duplication of effort, provide the widest scope for this work, and to give credit to the other parties, I have identified these where I am aware of them in parenthesised notes. Identification of further instances would be appreciated and any omissions are unintentional. 1 ISP focussed activities/documents ----------------------------------- 1.1 General Information: 1.1.1 Definition of an IXP (History - the original 4 'NAPs' etc?) 1.1.2 Directory of home pages (NB - B Manning 'ep.net') 1.1.3 Brief history of each IX (Relate to 1.1?) 1.1.4 Governance/Management models (Inc. affiliations with other bodies) 1.1.5 Central FAQ depository ISP focus - cf 2.1.2 below) 1.2 Procedures: 1.2.1 Membership requirements/criteria (NB - NL and other work underway) (Inc. any special legal or regulatory requirements) 1.2.2 Application processes/guides (NB - NL and other work underway) (Inc. timescale estimates, relates to location info below) 1.2.3 Co-location availability/cost indicators (Must be objective and non-preferential) 1.2.4 Central application service (possibly too ambitious?) 1.3 Current Status: 1.3.1 Costs of membership & services included (NB - NL and other work underway) 1.3.2 Membership(AS No) 'matrix' (NB - NL and other work underway) 1.3.3 Contact details, 'role' entry points (NB - NL and other work underway) 1.3.4 Locations (NB - some sensitivity here - input from operators required) 1.3.5 Access/support contacts, procedures (NB - staffed/sub-contracted etc) 1.3.6 Other services/value adds (EG Multicast, IPv6, NTP etc etc) 1.3.7 Mailing lists available, and their uses (CF 1.4.4) 1.3.8 Central peering contact list (NB - consider B Norton work) 1.4 Technical: 1.4.1 Architecture and available connection modes 1.4.2 Connection procedures, in-building (Inc. contact details of who can/will cable) 1.4.3 Connection procedures , WAN connection (carrier availability & cost indicators WRT other co-los) 1.4.4 Ticketing/trouble systems (CF 1.3.7) 1.4.5 '3D' peering matrix - AS v AS v IXP (NB - NL work underway) (CF RR consistency - Shane Kerr/Maldwyn Morris) 1.4.6 IX routing availability/mapping (CF Hermes - Andrea Carmignani/RIS - Henk Uijterwaal) 2. IXP focussed activities/documents ------------------------------------ 2.1 General Information: 2.1.1 Website translation services (NB - NL work underway) 2.1.2 Central FAQ depository (IX focus - cf 1.1.5 above) 2.1.3 Mechanism to update details in section 1) (use of XTML??) 2.1.4 Common look & feel (NB - many web sites already exhibit this to some extent) 2.1.5 'Statement of Intent' (to encourage new IXPs) 2.1.6 Common information presentation and reporting (are there standards that could be applied?) 2.2 Procedures: 2.2.1 Identification of common application requirements (NB - NL work underway) 2.2.2 Standardisation/simplification of application procedure 2.2.3 Central function to 'pre-screen' applicants (Subject to individual IX requirements) 2.3 Current Status: 2.3.1 Clearer cost indication 2.3.2 Standardised format for membership listings (auto populate IXP Current status above?) 2.3.3 Recommended or standardised email 'role entry points' 2.3.4 Extension of discussion/knowledge sharing WRT value adds 2.4 Technical 2.4.1 Shared technical knowledge base (Inc. known issues, fixes, vendor contact points etc) (CF - Mike Hughes wish list) 2.4.2 Mailing list cross posting facility? 2.4.3 IP Addressing information (NB - re-visit IXP object in RIPE Database, Antony Antony?) 2.4.4 Common trouble/ticketing system (For issues affecting multiple IXPs 3 Other considerations ---------------------- 3.1 Peering agreements (Can further work simplify things for ISPs?) 3.2 Co-lo activities in this area (Should we have more dialogue with co-lo companies as a group?) 3.3 Consider outside ripe region? (Would we/others benefit from extending the availability of this work?) (OK, so we're not likely to get MAE buy in any time soon.......) Conclusion I have not particularly tried to determine the nature of each subject, (ie is whether it is a BCP, FYI or something else) and would like the group's feedback on this, as well as the general content. No doubt some suggestions will be seen as precocious, it is hoped this will stimulate further discussion. Suggestions for additions to, or modification of, any of the above is welcome and anticipated. I would like to thank everyone from within the working group and wider RIPE community who has given me input and ideas towards this, and in particular the 'behind the scenes' support of two of my colleagues, Terry and Fredrik, whom I mention by name because they have done lots of research work towards this, but have not, as yet, been unleashed to wreak havoc in the WG. Yet. Regards, Nic

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RIPE 37 - EIX-WG Minutes
by Fearghas McKay 24 Jan '01

24 Jan '01

Chair: Fearghas McKay Scribe: David Knight <dknight(a)ripe.net> Agenda: No changes to the proposed agenda Internet Exchange Reports: INEX: Internet Neutral Exchange Alex Fench (Via Networks) <afrench(a)via-net-works.com> Founded 96, operational 97 Founder members: eunet ireland heanet indigo telecom internet All members share operational tasks and nominate one board member, hence no operational staff ... 3 honorary staff. Chairman Mike Norris. Current Members: 11 Eligibility: isps only must have independent route to mae east must be rir member Fees: 635 eu joining 2857 eu annual (for 2000) Facilities: two racks in a colo two cisco switches, ups, generator, model is byob acces is digi leased lines, sdh, atm Traffic stats: avg 5.5 Mbps peak 18 Mbps Douling 11 months Prefixes 162 Upgrade planned: tender for a new facility in progress carrier class location extra space for new members and bigger / more kit all the usual stuf of any IX More info: www.inex.ie MoU App forms Tender docs ... for new facility INEX secretary: <dcurran(a)eircom.net> Questions: Switches ? cisco 29?? New Location ? members will meet the costs of moving to the new location AMSIX: Since ripe36: Increase in members from 90 to 101 Increase in routers 99 to 111 Peak traffic since ripe 36 1.6g to 2.4g Housing: sara and nikhef are full nikhef expanded by 80 cabinets by dec2000 will go to 2 new locations telecity 5000m2 global switch (they are building 31,000m2 facility by Q4 2000) In use: Foundry big iron, sara nikhef interconnected with 2 fibre pairs ordering 2 ig irons ... ipv6 ports deployd at normal rate, this will be provided as a regular service ... Port charges (unchanged): 10 500 eu p/m 100 850 eu p/m 1000 1200 eu p/m Questions: Who owns the fibre interconnects ? not amsix, amsix owns the kit which was donated amsix is the only manager of the switches rate is total summary of all isps who peer on the two switches they currently run a multicast test there is multicast mailing list, info on mcast tests on amsix site LINX: Mike Hughes <mike(a)linx.net> Network Architect Organisationl changes: Keith Mitchell has resigned Rolan Perry has been appointed as interim ceo Nick Lewis left, this sparked a reorganisation in eng at Linx Mike and Chris Fletcher become project leaders ... Frees chris and mike from support for work on large high impact projects allows progression for other team members more clearly defined job focus Traffic Levels: Recently broke the 3Gb barier Daily minimum is now over a gig www2.linx.net Rate is aggregate of all ports ... 8 switches are in service Reimplimentation of stats system ... mrtg could no longer cope Chris implemented rrdtool Graphs and pages done on the fly with cgi ... current members - 110 / 50% from UK ... member from most eu countries expansion sites: Expanding to 7 sites ... fibre is delaying things Local authority upset with amount of road dug up for fibre install London underground also in on the act, tubes sunk too close to the tunnels One site, redbus, live since feb IX europe lit an on test Guardian and interxion are almost ready, most linx kit is installed, just waiting for fibre Expanded into telehouse east building, equipped with foundry switches, this helps relieve a lot of stree on telehouse north which is very full First extreme black diamond I swith installed, very happy new technology: Scalability of a flat layer two exchange point - will it hit a barrier ? Threat of a lack of intelligence Effective handling of multicast Main strength is the simplicity However this strenght could in future become a weakness ... Looking at possibilities of usin wdm Looking into packet ring study group ... turn cisco dpt into an ieee standard supporting gE an 10gE physical transports grouper.ieee.org/groups/802/rprsg/ Projects: Seperate mcast infrastructure 17 members connected 4 or 5 actually mcasting now Steve walker <stevew(a)linx.net> organised a two day event in july, 40 attendees Workign with Cisco to develop a protool to contain mcast traffic in a layer 2 ennvironment Cisco havea loaned a catalyst 5500 Trying to get other vendors involved 90% of the kit connected to the exchange is cisco Mcast project expansion is planned They need to get people into using mcast, find that killer app Possiility of another mcast event in the future Working now with RIPE NCC on RIS project Route servers replaced by a RIS box www.ripe.net - ris site A Caida project to map the internet Caida skitter box installed, on the k-root lan Extreme switch at telecity replaced with a black diamond I Alcatel too low port density, foundry are smaller SFINX: Franck Simon - Tehnical Manager Locations: La Bourse existing 12eme second Aubervilliers newest Current status: Interconnection of second sfinx pop, suffered from bad delays due to faulty kit Links are gig, using WDM All architecture is based on cisco catalyst switces 4 switches, sfinx1 offers 10/100 others offer 1000 Managed service Hosted service only also offered Managed service is no longer offered but still provide for those who already have it aubervilliers - 50 cabinets 10 carriers 12eme 12 cabinets 3 carriers All the pops can be accesses 24/7 ... Transit not allowed and private peerings not allowed between isps on the sfinx Basic service comparable to standard ix service 2nd dns via peering with afnic Router reset can be done by sfinx staff on sfinx all isps bar one come with cisco routers New services: (only at the new pops) Stats Vlan service - possile for isps to dedicate bandwidth for speific peerings Route reflector to simplify peerings Route server, routing table chek an comparison with RIPE db NTP service IPv6 peering with renater Optional services: Extra 10/100 Gig Mcast Future: New pops will bring a big trafic increase, atm isp's ar not coming at capacity Manager sabine.jaume(a)renater.fr franck.simon(a)renater.fr Questions: Why don't you allow people to provide transit ? Want to remain a peering point If they see transit they have the right to disconect the isps involved Is the no private connect rule not contrary to IX ? People wanting to do this must do it outside the sfinx room so they might have to put in two set of kit They get a room in a colo, they povide the switch, they pay a colo operator to manage the service They bill on the physical size of the router, hence you must be in the sfinx room to peer, if you are already in the colo you must also put a seperate router in the sfinx room INXS: Intro: Is a neutral exchainge point Oldest ixp in germany Established in munich in 94 Operated by cable an wireless Open host policy - no restriction to carriers Isps may make inxs their pop in munic Requirement: Have AS num, be a LIR, must house a router at inxs, switches and lan not allowed, no oligation to peer Facilities: Standard 19" racks 4 units per member 4 units 500 DM / month Access control system Cisco catalysts are in use 6 racks now, 6 more reserved Support: 24/7 phone supprt Router reset on request Physical check of conections 24/7 access arrangeable Extended support by contract Contact: http://www.inxs.de Members area mail lists: tech-l(a)inxs.de org-l(a)inxs.de archive available on http://www.inxs.de Upstreams: cable and wireless ebone aucs - coming Carriers: colt dtag m-net lines termintate in carrier room Future services: Looking for a second switch No connect to exisiting, for independence No oligation to connect to second switch Multicast via dedicated switch by end of 2000 Out of band access Isdn dialin or telnet by end of oct 2000 Switch stats by end of oct 2000 Testing ipv6 until Jan next year Only beta ios available with ipv6 support During test phase no fees Aditional racks for ipv6 routers at inxs Only regular inxs members may take part Genereal: 32 members Inxs moved from old ECRC facilities Distributed peering point has been established Redundant gig links 22 members moved successfully 5 to be moved until 21 sep Information: www.inxs.de info(a)inxs.de Questions: They will set up an mcast mailing list Private interconnects are okay VIX: <cristian.panigl(a)univie.ac.at> Status: Individual peaks up to 90Mbps Stats worry them as they are where LINX was one year ago Perhaps this time ex year they will have the kind of traffic that linx has right now +3Gb Exchange is accessible only during ofice hours, outside office hours is best effort, no contracts available 2 outages in the last 4 years, one hour power outage, . one 2 hour switch failure Various line carriers availabe ... Near Future: Gig by q4 2000 1st vix extension at interxion, neutral colo, expected to come on line within q4 2000 Big problem is getting dark fibre in vienna for redundant multi gig trunk interconnect Improvement of service level, 24/7 service - improved redundancy Mcast environents will be driven by member interest and active participation - connections to a dedidcated fethernet hub, gets the feelin that the market is there now f mcast service. The national TV company wants to mcast Requirements: Have own AS Be a LIR Internationl connectiity independant of existing members, prefixes and peerings registered in the ripe db Charging: 10 euro p/m 10t 200 p/n 100bt charging model to be adapted, with new site ad gig Questions: Apparently catalyst 59 doesn't cope too well with mcast on an exchange point Currently 3 are taking part in mcast tests, 2 more are interested no public announcement of tests yet, working currently with internal partner, most people just want to watch for the time being, this will open up soon, when there is experience and time, it is not currently announced, nobody is excluded, special requests can join in We announce peers to other peers in the db, randy wants to announce customers not peers, peers miht be private, you dont announce peers to other peers, but you always announce customers to your peers, so why not have that documented, why ? Vix peering matrix is no longer maintained by vix, each customer can maintain their own bit They were offerin newsfeecds for their pri customers unis, etc, newsfeeds suck up too much bandwidth these days. Vix reduced the feed back to the groups of academic value As they cannot deliver a full feed anymore they do not offer newsfeeds at all now CERN CIXP: Paolo Maroni Exchange point for switzerland Colo'd with cern Non profit best effort basic fibre providers colt sig (electrical provide) mci worldom, sunrise, ... 30 isps now members The recent trend is for global isps, less local ones CERN and other research nets are connected Infrastructure: Cisco catalyst 4003, 5505 10/100/1000 port available - most isps use 100 Back to back links are allowed Extreme networks summit48 ordered Infrmal measurements show peaks between 100 - 200 Mb back to back traffic needs to be added to the global traffic Normal services of an IXP Best effort services: oob cables and lines 24/7 operations Equipment install on request Kit maintenance - card install etc, on request www site - including bgp list of contacts Infrastructure monitoring Isues: Staff unavailability Rack space - some requests have to be rejected Contact with isps - a more detailed install procedure would help Limited to cern until end of sep 2000 A new non exclusive partnership with telehouse suisse Distribute infrastructure (Gig links) already there Security in telehouse much better Allows large pops connected directly to cixp Development: New www site Split from cern external network Looking glass Mcast - some experiments on their own, so far only one request from a member, they want to get more confident with the technology before announcing it to the membership They would like to get better stats with mrtg, etc Content distro service, they are talking to people about hosting equipment Better coordination between cixp members Sec dns, ipv6 and a route server They have already ipv6 conectivity ... They have had one request for a route server ... Contact: <cixp.support(a)cern.ch> http://network.cern.ch/public/services/cixp/index.html Informal nature o the cixp seems to be working well right now ... -=-=-=--=-=-=- END OF REPORTS -=-=-=--=-=-=- BEST CURRENT PRACTICE: IXP-BCP Whats happenin ? Nick Lewis offered to edit the document Working for LINX then, during ripe36 Nick is now working for a commercial isp and does not envisage a conflict of interest, his current employer supports the internet community activity, he has done a lot of work analysing ixp's around europe and would like to share this knowledge with the community He is very keen to ontinue Does the group agree ? Yes His point of view having come from an IXP to an ISP is appreciated Rapid pace of technology will make this doc old quick -=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Suggestion to change the charter ... Suggestion from Keith - change in the wording of the new EIX Charter -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Presentaion from I-Point Holdings A Way forward for European IXP's - Annette Nabavi I-Point set up to enhance the inter-isp infrastructure in europe Through consolidation and expansion they hope to achieve this UK based holding compay, well backed by venture capital Operating companies in each ountry Want to work with all major exchange point where possible, will roll out across eu within 12 months They are not an isp, or a colo, or a telco, or an asp, or a trade association They will: Provide funding or growth Service and tehnology enhancements Consistency in all eu countries They beleive absolutely in neutrality Flexibility an fast response is vital skeleton staff model cannot last, they want to have a consistently well maintaind ix network throughout the EU Will work toward staff motivation and retention They want to ensure that service levels are maintained and inrcreased, evolution not revolution Neutrality is a key issue Will guarantee 3 independent colos in metro area No exclusive arrangements Similar approach across europe Management team includes: Annette Nabavi CEO Keith Mitchell CTO Richard Almeida Alex Bligh Advisory Committee made up of IXP / internet gurus: Rob Blokzijl among others .. Whats it all about: They want to aquire IXP's in the EU, if that is not possible they can look into setting up new indeendent IXP's .. They want to reassure that neutrality will continue ... They see benefits as funding for growth, one stop shopping service and techonology comes quicker, free of current governance model, minimum disruption to existing services. Main Venture Capitalists: Nexus Equities Nexus investments GMT Questions: Why the buyout model ? They believe its vital for customers to come directly to one company for services They will not provide conectivity between their exchange points They will roll out to eu countries (10ish) over the next 12 months The rules of current ix's seem to reflect the protectionism of the founder members investment If the company is bought out, they claim that a new owner would destroy the company by altering the neutrality position ergo the neutrality is assured They don't intend to exclude people, but how do you make bargain basement services ? Who's idea was this ? Keith Mitchell Existing ixps facing threats, colos threaten that if ixps don't work with them they will start operating as ixps themselves Its harder to stay ahead of the technology requirements with funding from current members The main problem is that every euro ix has a diferent service level, and level of information i-Point will fix this by standardising the eu ixp's Community cooperative doesn't work anymore Wih the cooperative omunity model there is not the same recourse for damages recovery Why a buyout model instead of a licensing model ? Its important that they can guarantee a fast responsive service.

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EIX-WG Agenda for RIPE38
by Fearghas McKay 24 Jan '01

24 Jan '01

EIX-WG @ RIPE 38 1 Scribe 2 Agenda Bashing 3 IXP equipment wishlist - Mike Hughes 4 IX Best Current Practices - Nic Lewis 5 IX Reports TIX LoNAP SFINX NIX.CZ VIX LINX XchangePoint Last minute presentations - always welcome on the day 6 AOB

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EIX-WG Agenda for RIPE38
by Fearghas McKay 17 Jan '01

17 Jan '01

Here is the draft agenda for the meeting on Wednesday 24th January 9am at RIPE38. Please note I said afternoon in my previous mail which was based on an earlier draft of the schedule. f -=-=- 1 Scribe 2 Agenda Bashing 3 IX Reports LoNAP SFINX NIX.CZ XchangePoint Last minute presentations - always welcome on the day or mail me. 4 IXP equipment wishlist - Mike Hughes 5 IX Best Current Practices - Nic Lewis 6 AOB

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RIPE 38 - EIX-WG Schedule
by Fearghas McKay 16 Jan '01

16 Jan '01

Greetings The schedule for RIPE38 is now one the website: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/current/ripe-38/index.html - note that we are still the first session on Wednesay afternoon although the meeting starts on Tuesday am. Agenda items for the WG are welcome but the deadline is Wednesday lunchtime for insertion in the paper agendas so a note before then would be good. As ever we will try and take late submissions on the day. Cheers f

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