In total 76 instances of a root-server of which are 25 in the EU, 26 in the US, and 50 outside EU/US.
And this network is growing and growing
I'm very happy about this posting ;-) 76 copies of an single database source managed by an organization outside from europe and controlled by the U.S. DOC. Great! When it comes the master corrupt all AnyCast servers will use this information. Very great and very stable! ORSN is an DNS system with all the same information provided by ICANN. The difference: We have our own managed and independent database!!! In few days you will found an tool to compare the ORSN database with the ICANN root servers in realtime on our homepage. Some people wrote (not here): "ORSN is not transparently enough!" Sorry! But I must laughing about this words. We do provide all needed information for interested users. Peoples must read our homepage carefully before any can write this. Notice: The independent mode of ORSN was implemented to disable the automatic synchronization of the database. Regards, Markus Grundmann ORSN, Open Root Server Network Germany
Hi Markus, First of all, thanks for your appearance in this forum. | ORSN is an DNS system with all the same information provided by ICANN. | The difference: We have our own managed and independent database!!! That's all great and noble, but as a user I wish to make use of exactly one copy of this data, and that is the one that is provided already by an organisation which has - admittedly - some problems of their own, but none that we can't fix using proper politics. | In few days you will found an tool to compare the ORSN database | with the ICANN root servers in realtime on our homepage. There should not be a difference in the first place. | Notice: | The independent mode of ORSN was implemented to disable the automatic | synchronization of the database. Which makes it possible - at your sole discression (and I happen to have actually read your FAQ) - for you to dictate a new (alternative) dataset. If you want better root presence in Europe, why aren't you offering services to the existing deployment ? It seems like you have some political objection to the root maintainer. Can you elaborate on that (in private or on this mailinglist) ? -- Met vriendelijke groet, BIT BV / Ing P.B. van Pelt PBVP1-RIPE (PGPKEY-4DCA7E5E)
On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 10:04:51AM +0000, Pim van Pelt <pim@bit.nl> wrote a message of 30 lines which said:
an organisation which has - admittedly - some problems of their own, but none that we can't fix using proper politics.
Congratulations for your inalterable optimism. Next time I will feel tired or discouraged, I will read again your message.
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Markus Grundmann/ORSN wrote:
In total 76 instances of a root-server of which are 25 in the EU, 26 in the US, and 50 outside EU/US.
And this network is growing and growing
I'm very happy about this posting ;-)
Y'welcome.
76 copies of an single database source managed by an organization outside from europe and controlled by the U.S. DOC. Great!
No, just sanctioned by ICANN. Different organisations manage these boxes, and they do this very well.
When it comes the master corrupt all AnyCast servers will use this information. Very great and very stable!
If data in the database becomes corrupt, ORSN's data will become corrupt as well. ORSN's copy of the root-zone file is downloaded by ftp once a day from ICANN. Note that every ICANN sanctioned root is updated twice per day. While changes occur in the ICANN sanctioned root-zone, it takes in worst case a day before the ORSN root-zone is updated.
ORSN is an DNS system with all the same information provided by ICANN. The difference: We have our own managed and independent database!!!
You can't have it both ways. Either you have an independent root-zone, or it is ICANN based. If you have any technical concerns about the database management of the ICANN sanctioned servers, then you would have a point if the argument would be valid. It seems to me however you have political concerns with regards to database management (as in who manages the CONTENT of the root-zone). Then why copy the ICANN source ? IMHO it is really not in the best interest in ORSN to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt wrt database management, while blindly serving the ICANN source published on ftp://rs.internic.net/domain/root.zone.gz But be assured. The folks at ISI, ISC, Autonomica, RIPE, WIDE, etc, etc, who publish the ICANN sanctioned root-zone are very critical and concerned with process, procedures and policy around the root. They take their technical concerns to IETF workgroups. Publish informationals and standards endorsed by ISOC, organise workshops at NANOG, RIPE, ARIN (etc, etc) meetings. They are open, transparant, approachable, visible and at times very loud when in their view ICANN, or any associated party crosses some line somewhere. In fact, they all take part in the DNS Root Server System Advisory Commitee to make sure their concerns are heard. Ofcourse you could start your own root. Then again, you could go driving backwards on the opposite side of the road, and convince some to do the same. Roy
Y'welcome.
Thanks and thank you for the reply.
No, just sanctioned by ICANN. Different organisations manage these boxes, and they do this very well.
Really? I think the boxes are closed and only the hardware was managed by the operator. That's my information. The root zone will provided by "ICANN" or not?
If data in the database becomes corrupt, ORSN's data will become corrupt as well. ORSN's copy of the root-zone file is downloaded by ftp once a day from ICANN.
That is not completely correct . Yes we load the root zone with ftp, but the additional way is the synchronization by DNS queries (Alpha version). We have some reference tables in our database to check the current root zone provided by ICANN. Only a real person can start the rebuild when ORSN is in independent mode and all checks are completed.
Note that every ICANN sanctioned root is updated twice per day. While changes occur in the ICANN sanctioned root-zone, it takes in worst case a day before the ORSN root-zone is updated.
We wait some hours before the ICANN root zone go online. Two TLDs are based on XML exchanges (see TDE on our homepage) and this data overrides the ICANN root zone.
You can't have it both ways. Either you have an independent root-zone, or it is ICANN based. If you have any technical concerns about the database management of the ICANN sanctioned servers, then you would have a point if the argument would be valid. It seems to me however you have political concerns with regards to database management (as in who manages
Yes! ORSN has an political background but I think that is not bad. Projects like ORSC (*ggrr*) undermines DNS. ! And not ORSN ! We are only the european (independent) copy of the stable ICANN root server system :-))
the CONTENT of the root-zone). Then why copy the ICANN source ? IMHO it is really not in the best interest in ORSN to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt wrt database management, while blindly serving the ICANN source published on ftp://rs.internic.net/domain/root.zone.gz
You have right but see above.
some line somewhere. In fact, they all take part in the DNS Root Server System Advisory Commitee to make sure their concerns are heard.
I hope this ... for the internet community!
Ofcourse you could start your own root. Then again, you could go driving backwards on the opposite side of the road, and convince some to do the same.
*g* ... In January 2005 ORSN has its third birthday. We already began. Regards, Markus
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Markus Grundmann/ORSN wrote:
No, just sanctioned by ICANN. Different organisations manage these boxes, and they do this very well.
Really? I think the boxes are closed and only the hardware was managed by the operator. That's my information.
No. The infrastructure is the responsibility of the operating organisation. This includes the software brands/versions. There are root-servers running BIND 8, BIND 9 and NSD. The data that constitutes the root-zone (used by ORSN as well) comes from ICANN. Thats it as far ass ICANN is concerned. Roy
At 16:24 22/10/2004, Roy Arends wrote:
The data that constitutes the root-zone (used by ORSN as well) comes from ICANN. Thats it as far ass ICANN is concerned.
Untrue. There are at least four real root zones origins: - the ICANN/NTIA root file used in the ICANN name servers - the ICANN/NTIA root file used in ORSN machines after verification and possible addition par cooperating ccTLDs - the RSSAC added IPv6 addresses which are under implementation (?) - the TLD Managers information added through their db.files when denied/slowed down by ICANN jfc morfin
"JFC (Jefsey) Morfin" <jefsey@jefsey.com> wrote:
- the RSSAC added IPv6 addresses which are under implementation (?)
last time I looked those were not only not yet added to the root zone but also absent from the root-servers.net zone, which is (inofficially) authoritatively available from all 13 root servers.
- the TLD Managers information added through their db.files when denied/slowed down by ICANN
Which TLDs (other than ARPA and MIL) do the root nameservers serve or how do TLD Managers change the root zone content? -Peter
Untrue. There are at least four real root zones origins:
the number of zones you see is roughly proportional to the amount of koolaid you're drinking
At 19:06 22/10/2004, Randy Bush wrote:
Untrue. There are at least four real root zone origins:
the number of zones you see is roughly proportional to the amount of koolaid you're drinking
Dear Randy, I am not sure that koolaid fits your intended meaning. Beaujolais is probably what you intended to say :-) Now, please reread what I wrote (I corrected the typo but the meaning was clear). There is only one real root zone (the root servers and legacy first level name servers). I repeat there are many origins (or contributions if you like - or pollution in ICANN, RSSAC terms?) to that real root zone. Less than two hours ago there were 1312 name servers in the ICANN/NTIA root file and 1443 in the first level zone (10.0 % discrepancy). But I may miss some. jfc
Markus Markus wrote on 22/10/2004 12:26:13 pm:
We are only the european (independent) copy of the stable ICANN root server system :-))
I really do not understand this. How are you in anyway more independent than k-root or i-root? Jay
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2004-10-22, at 13.26, Markus Grundmann/ORSN wrote:
You can't have it both ways. Either you have an independent root-zone, or it is ICANN based. If you have any technical concerns about the database management of the ICANN sanctioned servers, then you would have a point if the argument would be valid. It seems to me however you have political concerns with regards to database management (as in who manages
Yes! ORSN has an political background but I think that is not bad. Projects like ORSC (*ggrr*) undermines DNS. ! And not ORSN !
And your added value is? Besides increased risk of serving false data, and spreading FUD? - - kurtis - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQXucC6arNKXTPFCVEQJJ0QCgndWaOKDLQGxiFVQFT0QjLww2ItIAoKtz DdPYtohQdFFxFUwa26enTB5M =eKeD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2004-10-24, at 14.11, Kurt Erik Lindqvist wrote: My apologies for sending this mail. It has been sitting in a mailqueue with some other mails forever due to an error in my mail-server. Fixing that today apparently made it go out. I have no intention of reopening this debate and I think it was concluded a long time ago and it was never my intention to get into this again. Again, my apologies to all concerned. - - kurtis - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGP 8.1 iQA/AwUBQfa3k6arNKXTPFCVEQID5gCfaomCRSa6+dk786zbN0uB7HCuwhgAn3Hz VUL6NH90sZiemTfxfuWVIhCZ =roTQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
In few days you will found an tool to compare the ORSN database with the ICANN root servers in realtime on our homepage. How many days is a few days? jaap
participants (10)
-
Jaap Akkerhuis -
Jay Daley -
JFC (Jefsey) Morfin -
Kurt Erik Lindqvist -
Markus Grundmann/ORSN -
Peter Koch -
Pim van Pelt -
Randy Bush -
Roy Arends -
Stephane Bortzmeyer