Re: [dns-wg] Fwd: [enum-wg] Tier-2 provisioning: NS vs CNAME/DNAME
"Niall" == Niall O'Reilly <Niall.oReilly@ucd.ie> writes:
>> I'm about to become responsible for a Tier-2 ENUM registry, >> part of the Irish ENUM Trial. I expect to use BIND as the name >> server platform for this purpose. I have supposed (perhaps >> naïvely) that the conventional delegation mechanism, using NS >> records in the parent zone, would be appropriate. This >> involves creating a new zone as each new telephone number is >> registered, and configuring the zone specifically on each of >> Tier-2 name servers. >> >> I'm not sure I really want to buy in to this level of >> per-number provisioning activity, and see apparently >> significant advantages in using the technique of RFC2317 >> (Classless IN-ADDR.ARPA delegation) to make life simpler. Actually I think it will make life harder. 2317-style delegation is trickier to set up and maintain than conventional delegation. >> The advantages I see are the following. >> >> The Tier-1 zone file becomes smaller, with just one CNAME (or >> DNAME) record per delegation, rather than two or more NS >> records. So what? Is disk space and RAM expensive? The T1 registry is going to be storing so much data about its registrations -- tech & admin contact details, billing info, authentication/validation tokens, whois tags, registrar data, etc, etc -- that shaving off a couple of resource records would be lost in the noise. For the T1, adding CNAMEs instead of conventional delegations might well be an unwanted complication: ie it requires changes and on-going support to the registry database and back-end scripts and tools. IIUC some registry systems only handle the RRs needed for conventional delegation: NS records and related glue. >> At Tier 2, the named configuration file needs only per-server, >> rather than per-number- per-server provisioning activity, and >> propagation of newly-registered numbers is driven by NOTIFY >> rather than by reloading the updated configuration file on each >> server. You lose the granularity of control and the flexibility to let customers manage their delegations. I'm presuming you plan to have all your numbers CNAME'd into a single zone file rather than discrete zone files for each zone. This might also get you into trouble with the competition authorities because the people using these CNAME'd numbers are locked in to your way of doing things. For something like a DDI block for an organisation, this shouldn't be an issue. But if it was for all numbers in the Dublin area code (say), there would be a problem. Registrants won't have the freedom to choose and switch DNS providers. Or decouple DNS hosting from the ISP/registrar they use to get their ENUM delegation. Using some sort of CNAME/DNAME trickery may limit your options for the future. ie It imposes a certain way of working or mindset that seems reasonable today. But it may not be the case in a year or so. And then all sorts of silliness happens as the original CNAME/DNAME model gets perverted to support the then prevailing orthodoxy. How often have we met bizarre DNS setups that have been inherited from an earlier DNS administrator who kludged a configuration and then kept tweaking it instead of doing the job properly? >> This looks like the way to go, but perhaps I'm missing >> something ? Using CNAME trickery for ENUM is unwise. It opens the door to all sorts of evils, like the accommodation of alternate trees. And it will make DNSSEC deployment (hah!) much harder because the parent can't secure any delegations with DS records because there are no proper delegations. DNAME is even worse because there are plenty of name servers and resolvers out there that don't understand this RR. It's not impossible that some applications will get upset if they get CNAME-like referrals to their lookups when they only expected to get NAPTR RRs or conventional referrals. For instance think of someone who writes a minimal ENUM-aware resolver as a Java applet for their mobile phone. Another problem -- which won't apply to someone clueful like you -- is that the introduction of CNAMEs increases the likelihood of looping or very long CNAME chains. Or dangling CNAMEs that point at nothing. Even without these administrative errors, the introduction of CNAMEs will complicate ENUM lookups and could mean they take too long. This would be somewhat annoying when someone picks up their ENUM-aware phone, dials a number and then waits for an eternity while the resolver chases down umpteen CNAME chains before making a phone ring. IMO it's best not to give people access to that much rope to hang themselves.
Jim, Thanks for the comprehensive comments. I'ld like to reply to one chunk at a time. [dns-wg-ers, sorry for the cross-posting; I'ld use enum-wg if it were populated.] On 15 Jul 2004, at 11:07, Jim Reid wrote:
So what? Is disk space and RAM expensive?
No. T1 zone-file size is indeed no big deal, mentioned for completeness only.
The T1 registry is going to be storing so much data about its registrations -- tech & admin contact details, billing info, authentication/validation tokens, whois tags, registrar data, etc, etc -- that shaving off a couple of resource records would be lost in the noise.
Only if your (unstated) assumptions about the role of the T1 Registry match the particular instance. My concept of the T1 Registry is much lighter, with delegation only at T1, payload (NAPTR of course, possibly others) at T2, and validation with the registRARs. This distributes customer-related overhead to the front-office, where it can be related directly to each registrar's business.
For the T1, adding CNAMEs instead of conventional delegations might well be an unwanted complication: ie it requires changes and on-going support to the registry database and back-end scripts and tools. IIUC some registry systems only handle the RRs needed for conventional delegation: NS records and related glue.
IMHO such registry systems are not suited to the ENUM business, and a T1 which takes this approach is unlikely to be winning many tenders for national infrastructure. Of course, that depends on the clue-level available to the local awarding agency. I'm happy to say that, here in +353-land, our trial T1 is taking a more helpful approach. Best regards, Niall O'Reilly UCD Computing Services
On 15 Jul 2004, at 11:07, Jim Reid wrote:
You lose the granularity of control and the flexibility to let customers manage their delegations. I'm presuming you plan to have all your numbers CNAME'd into a single zone file rather than discrete zone files for each zone.
I see it quite the other way around: you _gain_ flexibility. The customer has a single point of administration for announcing the delegation and changes thereto. Once the CNAME has aged out from resolver caches, there is no trace left of obsolete data in the 'golden tree'. If the T2 provider which the customer has just deserted delays (or neglects) removing the relevant RRsets, so what ? With NS, on the other hand, you have to make sure that all the obsolete data on still authoritative servers is eliminated.
This might also get you into trouble with the competition authorities because the people using these CNAME'd numbers are locked in to your way of doing things.
Are you saying that the opportunity for restrictive practices is significantly different according to which method you choose for implementing delegation ? I really don't see this.
For something like a DDI block for an organisation, this shouldn't be an issue. But if it was for all numbers in the Dublin area code (say), there would be a problem.
How is this different between the NS and CNAME implementations ?
Registrants won't have the freedom to choose and switch DNS providers. Or decouple DNS hosting from the ISP/registrar they use to get their ENUM delegation.
See above. Best regards, Niall O'Reilly UCD Computing Services
On 15 Jul 2004, at 11:07, Jim Reid wrote:
Another problem -- which won't apply to someone clueful like you -- is that the introduction of CNAMEs increases the likelihood of looping or very long CNAME chains. Or dangling CNAMEs that point at nothing. Even without these administrative errors, the introduction of CNAMEs will complicate ENUM lookups and could mean they take too long. This would be somewhat annoying when someone picks up their ENUM-aware phone, dials a number and then waits for an eternity while the resolver chases down umpteen CNAME chains before making a phone ring. IMO it's best not to give people access to that much rope to hang themselves.
OTOH, there's a balance to be struck between allowing people to be responsible for their own mistakes and engaging in the diminishing-returns game of protecting them from everything. If registrars or T2 registries can't do their job, how long will they stay in business ? Best regards, Niall O'Reilly UCD Computing Services
At 12:48 PM +0100 2004-07-15, Niall O'Reilly wrote:
If registrars or T2 registries can't do their job, how long will they stay in business ?
If the current amount of policing we're getting from ICANN is any example, then the answer is "surprisingly long". Just ask Network Solutions. -- Brad Knowles, <brad.knowles@skynet.be> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755 SAGE member since 1995. See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
On 15 Jul 2004, at 11:07, Jim Reid wrote:
And it will make DNSSEC deployment (hah!) much harder because the parent can't secure any delegations with DS records because there are no proper delegations.
So, we'd better make sure our trial doesn't take longer than six months ? 8-) Seriously, though, this is something I need to avoid losing sight of. Thanks.
DNAME is even worse because there are plenty of name servers and resolvers out there that don't understand this RR.
This also. thanks again.
It's not impossible that some applications will get upset if they get CNAME-like referrals to their lookups when they only expected to get NAPTR RRs or conventional referrals. For instance think of someone who writes a minimal ENUM-aware resolver as a Java applet for their mobile phone.
Nobody with significant market share would be involved in inflicting such a broken application on the unsuspecting customers, would they ? 8-) Best regards, Niall O'Reilly UCD Computing Services
participants (3)
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Brad Knowles
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Jim Reid
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Niall O'Reilly