May 1994 - dns-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Re: register esa.ch
by mfendt＠eso.org 20 May '94

20 May '94

>> > Totally correct. If the company moves, they will have to >> > change their business cards, letter heads ... >> > PTT's take care of forwarding letters. Who is going >> > to take care of forwarding e-mail? >> >> Unless the outdated domain name is reissued immediately (not a good idea >> at all) it still lives and the owner is free to populate it with >> appropriate CNAME and/or MX records. So you yourself or your friendly >> service provider care about e-mail forwarding. >> >> Within "DE" there have been some cases in the past where organizations >> changed their domain name (for other reasons but physical relocation), >> and this kind of "forwarding" was used. >> >> -Peter >> A few exceptions are fine and managable, but that idea would probably leads to the fact that there are more than a few. The other issue I see is the fact that we have already problems in addressing multinational organizations in various countries. How do we address lets say companies sitting in Hamburg and Munic. Do you think they like being registered with (This is an example; nobody should be offended by that!) siemens.hh.de, siemens.m.de (or siemens.muc.de), ... I think they will go with siemens.com :_) I consider this idea as good or as bad as the advice of RIPE to register international organizations in the various countries :-) a) Is this plan actually to be considered as serious or more rumor? b) Is this mailing list the right forum to discuss it? Michael

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re: register esa.ch ?
by gveldman＠estcs1.estec.esa.nl 20 May '94

20 May '94

I strongly advice against the use of ESA for anything else but the European Space Agency, even though we use subdomains as estec, esoc etc. It would be very impractical to share the ESA domain with another company, if not practically impossible. Besides, ESA is known internationally around the world as European Space Agency on the international networks and I do not think another company will want to be confused with that well known name. Kind regards, Gerbrand Veldman Mail: Gerbrand Veldman, ESA/Estec, P.O. Box 299, 2200 AG Noordwijk, The Netherlands. Tel: (Int) 31 1719 83113 Fax:- (Int) 31 1719 85095 E-Mail: Internet: gveldman(a)estcs1.estec.esa.nl HEP/SPAN: ESTCS1::GVELDMAN (29717::GVELDMAN) X.400: C=NL A=400NET P=ESA O=ESTEC S=VELDMAN

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Re: register esa.ch ?
by root＠estec.esa.nl 20 May '94

20 May '94

Hi Piet, we are discussing this at the moment with the other ESA sites, will reply soon Rob.

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Re: register esa.ch ?
by root＠estec.esa.nl 20 May '94

20 May '94

I will reply to you in 10 minutes, sorry for the delay in reading the mail, regards ... Robert Williams - European Space Agency (ESA) Keplerlaan 1, 2200 AG Noordwijk - The Netherlands Phone: +31-1719-85403 Fax: +31-1719-85095 E-Mail: INTERNET: postmaster(a)bcserver.estec.esa.nl

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Re: register esa.ch
by mfendt＠eso.org 20 May '94

20 May '94

Hello, Piet wrote: >> Comments/Suggestions welcome! >> Contrary to what I've suggested to you long ago, I'd now >> recommend that you put ESA under the .INT domain; chances >> are zero that there will ever be a .EU domain for Europe, >> unless someone can convince the Powers That Be that there >> is a very clear need for such a "pseudo top level domain", >> quite analogous to the current 3-letter TLD's; or maybe >> the analogy could be carried even further by creating a >> domain .EUR; but then, who is going to manage it? The last two mails actually clarified the issue for me in the respect that there is a more serious problem (i.e how to register multinational organisations) and the as a part the current problem what happens to esa.ch. The esa.ch seems to be solved by the mail from Walter (if ESA doesn't want to use it and doesn't feel that it should be reservered than nobody in Switzerland has to explain a small company that you do not get it, even so you were the first) The other thing which still has to renaimed is the issue of multinational organisations. I asked once on that list about the advice (it was mentioned in the 14. Ripe meeting as the case of the day) indicating that I found the advice stupid (I still do, but not because of the ESA case now :-) and asked for clarification, reasons. I got no serious answer back, so I thought to skip that issue (and stay with .org; that's what we use now). But the advice now to change ESA to .int (even if it would be a good idea to do so) might cause some trouble and I have my serious doubts that they will do that. So it would be quite a good idea to keep that point in mind if an international organization want's to register for the first time, but changing already existing organisation will cause a lot of overhead for them (I just got new business cards :-). Maybe a better solution can be found too, but I can not recommend one off hand. Michael P.S.: .int for ESA was reject in the 14 Ripe meeting with: "workable, but ESA is not a world wide organization" :-) according to the minutes ________________________________________________________________________________ Michael Fendt ESO (European Southern Observatory) Karl-Schwarzschild-Str. 2 85748 Garching Germany Tel: +49 89 32006 441 Fax: +49 89 32023 62 email: mfendt(a)eso.org

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Re: register esa.ch ?
by Dave Morton 20 May '94

20 May '94

> > Dave Morton <Dave.Morton(a)ecrc.de> writes: > > > > Daniel - under that argument you wouldn't object either to someone > > registering RIPE.DE or NL or whatever ? > >I would not object to that given that they have been warned strongly >about all the requests for address space and what-have-you they will >receive and will have to forward. Or shall we register ripe.<all toplevel >domains in the world>? No - of course not and as long as they have been warned - no problem - if someone is silly enough to register such... >Some TLD registrars would ask us for proof that we are a legal entity >in the country concerned. Sure - and the local registry might also face legal problems if they give away an "obvious" name to joe.smoke. The assumption is that the lcoal IR can spot the "obvious" ones - probably not always true unfortunately. Use common sense I'd guess is the only formula - assuming there is any... In this case, anyway, the problem is now solved I see. >Daniel Dave

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Re: register esa.ch ?
by Erik-Jan Bos 20 May '94

20 May '94

Piet, > I have got a request from the company "Einkaufsgenossenschaft > des Schweizerischen Autogewerbeverbands" to register the domain > esa.ch. ESA is the registered name of this company that appears > also on their letters. > I have called their attention to the fact, that esa stands for > European Space Agency in different European countries (e.g. esa.de, > esa.es, esa.nl) and that therfore it is not wise to register esa.ch > for something completely different. > But they insist on this name. Would you register it? > In cases like this I would give international context precedence > over national context. > I would first contact the European Space Agency to see if they > have any plans to register esa.ch in the (near) future. If they > do, I would give them the "first option" on that domain, but at > the same time I would ask them to register it immediately. This will remain a can of worms, always. Some time ago the "Instituut voor Nederlandse Geschiedenis" (Institute for Dutch History) registered "ing.nl". However, two Dutch banks merged (aroud the same) and became "Internationale Nederlanden Groep"... If you ask somebody in The Netherlands where ING stands for, 99 to 100 he'll say "Internationale Nederlanden Groep". __ Erik-Jan.

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Re: register esa.ch ?
by Piet Beertema 20 May '94

20 May '94

this is a significant departure from FCFS which should not be done lightly. It establishes a precedent to poll all multi-nationals before registering locally. Please note that I'm *not* saying nor implying that this should be done lightly. And I think such cases will hardly show up: lots of commercial multi-nationals are registered in the various countries, so chances are minimal that some other company will be "entitled" to "their" domain name. For other organisations the situation is different; ESA is a clear example of this. And what if somebody would want to register cern.nl? I probably would think twice and contact CERN about it. Also note that these "name clashes" don't occur only on an international scale: on a national scale they occur as well. Under .NL I've had at least one such case. But that doesn't mean I'm going to "poll" or search for all organisations that I might suspect to have a "right" on a name. In other words: it's the exceptions that confirm the rule; in the case of esa.ch I see such an exception. Piet

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register esa.ch ?
by Willi Huber 20 May '94

20 May '94

Dear colleagues, I have got a request from the company "Einkaufsgenossenschaft des Schweizer- ischen Autogewerbeverbands" to register the domain esa.ch. ESA is the registered name of this company that appears also on their letters. I have called their attention to the fact, that esa stands for European Space Agency in different European countries (e.g. esa.de, esa.es, esa.nl ) and that therfore it is not wise to register esa.ch for something completely different. But they insist on this name. Would you register it? Regards, Willi Huber

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Re: register esa.ch ?
by Dave Morton 20 May '94

20 May '94

> > Willi Huber <huber(a)chx400.switch.ch> writes: > > > > But they insist on this name. Would you register it? > >If it is indeed their "local name" and they have been warned about the >conflict I see no reason why not. Daniel - under that argument you wouldn't object either to someone registering RIPE.DE or NL or whatever ? >Daniel I think Piet's approch is the best. Dave

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