On-line video meeting invitation: Diversity TF meeting, 30-08-2017, 11:00 am EST
Dear all, here is the information about our next meeting: *Diversity TF meeting* Wednesday, August 30, 2017 11:00 am | Europe Summer Time (Amsterdam, GMT+02:00) | 1 hr Draft agenda: - introduction of new members/volunteers - update on actions & milestones - discussing the draft charter - next meeting Hope to see you there! Please read the previous meeting notes, and the discussions on the lists archives: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/diversity/ Regards, Vesna Manojlovic Community Builder RIPE NCC Meeting number (access code): 702 314 786 Meeting password: 3Ds5sHZB Add to Calendar <https://ripencc.webex.com/ripencc/j.php?MTID=m9f15a8d7612c53f498156082a3d0bfe3> When it's time, join the meeting <https://ripencc.webex.com/ripencc/j.php?MTID=m468344e272a67b50c3cc32ba0e553cbb>. *Join by phone* *0800-051-3810* Call-in toll-free number (UK) *+44-203-478-5289* Call-in toll number (UK) Global call-in numbers <https://ripencc.webex.com/ripencc/globalcallin.php?serviceType=MC&ED=555601282&tollFree=1> | Toll-free calling restrictions <https://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf> Can't join the meeting? <https://help.webex.com/docs/DOC-5412> IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the session.
Dear all, a gentle reminder: see you on Wednesday :) Addition/modification of the agenda: not much work was done on the charter, so I am proposing to focus more on the other actions & preparation for for RIPE75, and to work on the charter on the list & in the Etherpad document, asynchronously... http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/ripe-diversity-tf-2017 Ciao, Vesna -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [diversity] On-line video meeting invitation: Diversity TF meeting, 30-08-2017, 11:00 am EST Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 11:56:06 +0200 From: Vesna Manojlovic <BECHA@ripe.net> To: diversity@ripe.net Dear all, here is the information about our next meeting: *Diversity TF meeting* Wednesday, August 30, 2017 11:00 am | Europe Summer Time (Amsterdam, GMT+02:00) | 1 hr Draft agenda: - introduction of new members/volunteers - update on actions & milestones - discussing the draft charter - next meeting Hope to see you there! Please read the previous meeting notes, and the discussions on the lists archives: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/diversity/ Regards, Vesna Manojlovic Community Builder RIPE NCC Meeting number (access code): 702 314 786 Meeting password: 3Ds5sHZB Add to Calendar <https://ripencc.webex.com/ripencc/j.php?MTID=m9f15a8d7612c53f498156082a3d0bfe3> When it's time, join the meeting <https://ripencc.webex.com/ripencc/j.php?MTID=m468344e272a67b50c3cc32ba0e553cbb>. *Join by phone* *0800-051-3810* Call-in toll-free number (UK) *+44-203-478-5289* Call-in toll number (UK) Global call-in numbers <https://ripencc.webex.com/ripencc/globalcallin.php?serviceType=MC&ED=555601282&tollFree=1> | Toll-free calling restrictions <https://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf> Can't join the meeting? <https://help.webex.com/docs/DOC-5412> IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the session.
Vesna, Thanks for the reminder. Did we decide what amount of time we were looking for for an update in Dubai? I'm not sure it would be possible to justify more than an LT, unless we think there'll be the same level of discussion as there was in Budapest? But either way we need to get our submission in quite soon. Brian Brian Nisbet Network Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 Vesna Manojlovic wrote on 28/08/2017 11:57:
Dear all,
a gentle reminder: see you on Wednesday :)
Addition/modification of the agenda: not much work was done on the charter, so I am proposing to focus more on the other actions & preparation for for RIPE75, and to work on the charter on the list & in the Etherpad document, asynchronously...
http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/ripe-diversity-tf-2017
Ciao, Vesna
-------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [diversity] On-line video meeting invitation: Diversity TF meeting, 30-08-2017, 11:00 am EST Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 11:56:06 +0200 From: Vesna Manojlovic <BECHA@ripe.net> To: diversity@ripe.net
Dear all,
here is the information about our next meeting:
*Diversity TF meeting* Wednesday, August 30, 2017 11:00 am | Europe Summer Time (Amsterdam, GMT+02:00) | 1 hr
Draft agenda: - introduction of new members/volunteers - update on actions & milestones - discussing the draft charter - next meeting
Hope to see you there!
Please read the previous meeting notes, and the discussions on the lists archives: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/diversity/
Regards, Vesna Manojlovic Community Builder RIPE NCC
Meeting number (access code): 702 314 786
Meeting password: 3Ds5sHZB
Add to Calendar <https://ripencc.webex.com/ripencc/j.php?MTID=m9f15a8d7612c53f498156082a3d0bfe3>
When it's time, join the meeting <https://ripencc.webex.com/ripencc/j.php?MTID=m468344e272a67b50c3cc32ba0e553cbb>.
*Join by phone* *0800-051-3810* Call-in toll-free number (UK) *+44-203-478-5289* Call-in toll number (UK) Global call-in numbers <https://ripencc.webex.com/ripencc/globalcallin.php?serviceType=MC&ED=555601282&tollFree=1> | Toll-free calling restrictions <https://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf>
Can't join the meeting? <https://help.webex.com/docs/DOC-5412>
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Please note that this WebEx service allows audio and other information sent during the session to be recorded, which may be discoverable in a legal matter. By joining this session, you automatically consent to such recordings. If you do not consent to being recorded, discuss your concerns with the host or do not join the session.
_______________________________________________ Diversity mailing list Diversity@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity
Dear all, here are the notes: Diversity TF meeting, 30-08-2017, 11:00-11:45 AM CEST, WebEx Present: Brian Nisbet, HEAnet; Denesh Bhabuta (UKNOF / DNS-OARC), Amanda Gowland (RIPE NCC), Gergana Petrova (RIPE NCC / RACI) (on chat), Vesna Manojlovic (RIPE NCC). Agenda: 1. introduction of new members/volunteers 2. update on actions & milestones 3. New agenda item: RIPE76 activities 4. discussing the draft charter 5. next meeting 1. introduction of new members/volunteers There were no now volunteers. 2. update on actions & milestones Actions form the previous meeting: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/diversity/2017-July/000052.html
Shane: re-run metrics
Done: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/diversity/2017-July/000062.html
Donal: contact Aaron Hughes
Ongoing.
All: work further on the charter
Will be moved to the mailing list.
Someone? : come up with the numbers of "tech industry gender ratio"
Amanda has sent this to the list: 34% https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/diversity/2017-July/000090.html
Vesna: admin: send notes; schedule next meeting
Done. Other updates: Amanda: I am looking for the childcare facilities for RIPE76 (France). We are looking into possible service providers, we've sent them a list of requirements, and now waiting to hear back the costs. What we don't know is how many children to expect. There's also a language barrier. For RIPE77 (in Amsterdam) it will be easier to arrange. Brian: we must expect that the first few times it will be an over-provisioned activity, an investment (of effort & money) that will only pay off after a longer period. Action on Amanda (et.al): to inquire during RIPE75 : "how many people would be interested in childcare"? Vesna: webinar for the introduction to newcomers is being prepared by Training & Communications departments at RIPE NCC, with the goal to inform & empower new participants (how) to actively take part in RIPE Meetings. This will be done few weeks before, as an interactive online event, and the recording will be available to all afterwords. Fellowship programme and RACI are also going strong, and their success is also increasing diversities in the RIPE community. Since the previous Task Force meeting, there were more cross-connections being done and experiences exchanged on increasing diversity, between RIPE and various other communities: - Django - hackers / hackerspaces At the RIPE NCC, we are introducing Code of Conduct for staff, are going to attend Women in Tech conference in Amsterdam, and are planning to invite speakers / trainers on several topics such as "dealing with unconscious bias", "empathy in tech", neuro-diversity and "non-violent communication", among others. New agenda item: RIPE76 activities At the RIPE76, we have 3 activities that need a volunteer to organise them: - TF report (lightning talk) - BoF session - TF meeting Action on Brian to submit the proposals for two sessions (lighting talk & BoF) to Programme Committee, but we are still looking for volunteers to: - give a presentation about the work of Task Force since RIPE74 - be a moderator for the BoF session Action on Amanda to organise a meeting of the Task Force (during lunch or breakfast time-slot). Amanda: suggestions for the BoF session: it should be inclusive, open, and give everyone an opportunity to express their opinions & concerns & ideas about increasing diversity. It is an extension of the previous discussion that we had at RIPE74. There will be no formal presentations; instead, there will be open questions and encouraging environment for the exchange of experiences, with strong moderator to give it structure. We agreed to make the process of organising this BoF also as transparent & inclusive & participatory as possible, so the call will be made on the mailing list and at RIPE Labs for the participants and topics. 4. discussing the draft charter This will be moved to the mailing list, with strict timelines; goal is to arrive to the charter by consensus, by both giving an opportunity for everyone to contribute, and at the same time to make progress before the next meeting (during RIPE75). Action on Vesna to initiate & "shepherd" the proposal. 5. Next meeting(s) Next meeting of the TF will be in person, in Dubai, during RIPE75. (Personal note: I will not be there - please take minutes & send them to the list) Meeting after that will be on-line again, in December. Live working document for the TF collaboration: http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/ripe-diversity-tf-2017
On 04/09/2017 11:09, Vesna Manojlovic wrote:
Someone? : come up with the numbers of "tech industry gender ratio"
What is the claimed relevance of the figure for the tech industry? RIPE doesn't target the tech industry for participation, it targets network operations personnel in all industries. That's two dimensions of differentiation: (a) network operations personnel, not (e.g.) marketing types (b) all industries, not just born-on-the-Internet+telcos (which I imagine is what you mean by tech industry not, for example, biotech). Is it proposed to target the tech industry gender ratio because that is expected to have a particular balanced ratio, and so be an aspirational target? Malcolm -- Malcolm Hutty | tel: +44 20 7645 3523 Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs blog London Internet Exchange | http://publicaffairs.linx.net/ London Internet Exchange Ltd Monument Place, 24 Monument Street London EC3R 8AJ Company Registered in England No. 3137929 Trinity Court, Trinity Street, Peterborough PE1 1DA
Malcolm Hutty wrote: [...]
Someone? : come up with the numbers of "tech industry gender ratio"
What is the claimed relevance of the figure for the tech industry?
RIPE doesn't target the tech industry for participation, it targets network operations personnel in all industries.
If a person runs the network for a large bakery they are clearly working in a technology role even if their employer is in the food industry. Employment is a complex Venn diagram. Reference measurements are important so that RIPE can establish whether participants reflect relevant sectors in their countries. We should expect variations in participation by country. Kind regards, Leo
Hi Malcolm, all, On 04/09/2017 12:20, Malcolm Hutty wrote:
On 04/09/2017 11:09, Vesna Manojlovic wrote:
Someone? : come up with the numbers of "tech industry gender ratio"
What is the claimed relevance of the figure for the tech industry?
It's one of the possible numbers that we can compare ourselves with, and consider when setting goals for ourselves. Below are some numbers I could find with a few hours of searching. I am still going to look into other "similar" communities: - IETF - ICANN - software-developers / FLOSS - hackers/hackerspaces community - Other RIRs
RIPE doesn't target the tech industry for participation, it targets network operations personnel in all industries.
I wonder if that is still true: with more topics such as Internet Governance, IP transfer markets, research and academic cooperation, legal aspects of data privacy, "collaboration between the private and public sectors on Internet matters", anti-abuse, measurements, Net Neutrality, public policy, human rights & the Internet, ethics... I'm seeing more and more topics that are not classical "network operations".
That's two dimensions of differentiation: (a) network operations personnel, not (e.g.) marketing types (b) all industries, not just born-on-the-Internet+telcos (which I imagine is what you mean by tech industry not, for example, biotech).
Indeed - but with the "Internet" becoming more and more part of the other industries, it's hard to make a distinction. I would add a 3rd dimension - leadership positions. (partially because it's the boss who decides who gets to go to the RIPE meeting; partially because of the power structures that shape the rest of the industry & community...)
Is it proposed to target the tech industry gender ratio because that is expected to have a particular balanced ratio, and so be an aspirational target?
On the contrary - the numbers that are reported for the "tech industry" are quite worrying, and are supposed to be used rather as a warning, and to make us able to compare with communities that have a similar problem - because we have similar demographics. I would see it as an achievement if we can say "RIPE community is doing more-less the same as tech-industry average" or "we are doing better then XYZ community, but still not as good as NNN community." For now, we need a baseline, and then compare our own numbers from 2016 with the numbers in the future, to see if all our efforts made any improvements. Of course, the numbers by themselves are not enough - the *inclusion* is even more difficult to measure. The final goal (of getting to "better" decisions, policies and procedures for RIPE community) will be the ultimate measure -- however, very difficult to quantify. Vesna ==== It's hard to get the good numbers, specially over time, over various geographies, and for the "technical positions" or "IT sector". Here are some: ~~~ Newest numbers from Deloitte, not IT-specific: https://dupress.deloitte.com/dup-us-en/focus/human-capital-trends/2017/diver... ~~~ About university education in OECD countries, per country, gender disparity/gap, for example for Holland: http://www.keepeek.com/Digital-Asset-Management/oecd/education/education-at-... Employment gap: 85% women with university education are employed (compared to 91% me with the same education level) STEM education gap: 25% graduates in engineering etc are women Earning gap : women are payed 73% of what man is payed. There is a lot of to explore in OECD numbers, can't find more time ;-) ~~~ https://www.cnet.com/news/women-in-tech-the-numbers-dont-add-up/ 2015: "30% is the average percentage of women working in the tech industry, based on diversity reports published by 11 of the world's largest tech companies last year. In comparison, women make up 59 percent of the US labor force and almost 51 percent of the US population, according to the US Census Bureau." ~~~ 2015, USA tech/Web/IT companies: https://www.theverge.com/2015/8/20/9179853/tech-diversity-scorecard-apple-go... "female employment with 37 to 24 percent" "women in leadership roles 23 to 13 percent" ~~~ Even older numbers, by Fortune (with infographics...) http://fortune.com/2014/08/29/how-tech-companies-compare-in-employee-diversi... Leadership: =========== 2017: Glass Ceiling Index: http://press.economist.com/stories/10640-the-economist-releases-2017-glass-c... ~~~ 2015, USA: "Fewer large companies are run by women than by men named John" https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/03/upshot/fewer-women-run-big-companies-than... ~~~ Business advisors - Ernst & Young - about diversity in leadership: http://www.ey.com/gl/en/issues/business-environment/ey-women-in-industry 30% again, as a goal. (don't even have "Internet Industry" ;-) ~~~ "According to a report by the European Commission (2012), in the European Union, as of beginning 2012, women constituted only 13.7% of board seats. " http://www.cpahq.org/cpahq/cpadocs/Genderdiffe.pdf ~~~ I'm afraid this is just a bunch of numbers & links, and it would take a longer time to produce some more concrete answers to questions Malcolm poses - or, if someone can come up with other questions, maybe the answers would be easier to develop, too. Thanks, Vesna ps more links here: https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/Ladies_Night#Gender_gap_in_tech
participants (4)
-
Brian Nisbet -
Leo Vegoda -
Malcolm Hutty -
Vesna Manojlovic