- diversity - mailman.ripe.net

Task-force practicalities: meeting, charter, collaborative documentation, actions
by Vesna Manojlovic 23 Jun '17

23 Jun '17

Hi list, it's good to see some activity on the list, after the article is published! I am hoping to see many of you join the task-force too! I'd like to get practical, and get on with the "tasks" of the task-force :) To that goal, I suggest that we have a first online meeting ASAP: date & time: 26.6.2017 (Tuesday), 10:30 AM CEST URL - to be sent later (online-video-meeting tool Webex, most likely) Provisional agenda: - introduction of new members/volunteers - discussing the drat charter - actions & milestones - next meeting To work on the agenda in more detail, to word-smith the charter, and to keep track of the actions, here is a new Etherpad document: http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/ripe-diversity-tf-2017 If there are any changes needed, to the date or agenda, please use this list to discuss them. Any volunteer to draft the first version of the charter? Ciao, Vesna

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An idea for doing an anonymous survey
by denis walker 22 Jun '17

22 Jun '17

Hi I recently completed the ICANN survey on diversity and gradually an idea came to mind. First a question. Why are you linking the RIPE survey to the registration process? This is the bit that causes me a problem. This link makes it much more difficult to collect the diversity data anonymously. ICANN has not linked their survey to any registration process for any specific meeting. They have simply announced a link to a survey that anyone, like myself, can go to and complete. Within the survey they asked some questions like "Have you ever attended an ICANN meeting?". This allows ICANN to gather anonymous information and put it into context regarding ICANN meeting attendees. So, you could create a survey, using SurveyMonkey if you wish, and send a link to the survey to all the attendees of RIPE 74. This allows you to retrospectively gather this information for RIPE 74. Because it is not directly linked to the registration it will also be anonymous. If 500 people attended the meeting and 200 people choose to complete the questionnaire you have no idea which 200 they are. That would satisfy my concerns and you have the data in the bag for the last meeting. For future RIPE Meetings, you could again create a survey and include a link to it in the information pack handed to attendees at the meeting desk. Open the survey on Tuesday, by which time the majority of attendees have picked up their pack. Close the survey at the end of the meeting week, or maybe allow an extra week to complete it. An advantage of closing the survey at the end of the week is that even the IP addresses used by most people won't be identifiable if you did accidentally collect that information. The advantage of this is that you can run surveys at meetings without any link, direct or otherwise, to the identifiable registration data. cheersdenis

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Proposal for anonymous gender metric question now on RIPE Labs
by Amanda Gowland 20 Jun '17

20 Jun '17

Hi all, Based on our discussions here, I've written a post for RIPE Labs on how we can include an anonymous question to gather gender metrics on the RIPE 75 meeting registration form. https://labs.ripe.net/Members/agowland/gathering-gender-metrics-at-ripe-mee… Happy to hear your input. Thanks, Amanda

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FYI: ICANN gender diversity survey
by Shane Kerr 19 Jun '17

19 Jun '17

All, ICANN announced a survey of their own about gender diversity last week: https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2017-06-12-en Nice to see ICANN looking at this. Cheers, -- Shane

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scope of effort?
by Paul Ebersman 09 Jun '17

09 Jun '17

Great to see this started. While I assume the initial focus is on RIPE, are there any plans to spread the effort to other NOGs around the world?

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Re: [diversity] Options for gender on meeting registration
by denis walker 06 Jun '17

06 Jun '17

Hi All I am a bit late in getting into this group, but had a few pointers/concerns sent to me. I am not sure what the goals are with trying to measure all these metrics - gender, sexuality, religion, race, class. What are you going to do if you find only 1% of attendees are gay? Are you going to offer incentives to gay people attending to increase it to the population average? I am also DEEPLY concerned at the rush to get some question(s) on the registration form for RIPE 75. What you are asking for is the most sensitive and personal information people can give. With some of the countries in our region, if this information gets into the wrong hands it can cost lives. There are serious, serious, serious privacy concerns here. Amanda said "This data will only be used anonymously for metric benchmarking.". Sorry, but before we get to how this data is going to be used: -how is it going to be collected-who is going to collect it -how and where will it be stored-who has access to the raw data-how will the sensitive data be harvested from the personally identifiable data-are there Dutch/EU data protection issues with collecting/storing this data in an identifiable way This is not something you announce on a Thursday with a deadline for a decision on Monday. I hope a lot more thought and care will be applied to potentially life threatening personal information. cheersdenis

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Options for gender on meeting registration
by Amanda Gowland 02 Jun '17

02 Jun '17

Hi all, We have an opportunity to include a question on the meeting reg software in time for RIPE 75, but we need input by this coming Monday (hard deadline) if we want to have something in place. It's a chance to start gathering those metrics early. Question is, what do we want to include? One suggestion: What is your gender?* ☐ Female ☐ Male ☐ Non-binary/ third gender ☐ Prefer to self-describe _________________ ☐ Prefer not to say *And then we can have a pop-up info window to explain why we're asking this question: "We are committed to increasing diversity and inclusion at RIPE Meetings. One way we're doing this is to gather data to see where we need to improve. This data will only be used anonymously for metric benchmarking." Happy to hear your thoughts (soon please) so we can include this in our discussion with the developers. Many thanks, Amanda

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Diversity Discussions at RIPE 74 - Now on RIPE Labs
by Amanda Gowland 29 May '17

29 May '17

Hi everyone, Just in case you didn't catch it on social media or the ripe-list, just wanted to share this with you: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/agowland/diversity-discussions-at-ripe-74 Many thanks to Constanze Dietrich for making us an illustration to use as the lead image! Please share in your circles <3 Amanda

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Re: [diversity] Opening the mailing list
by Mirjam Kuehne 23 May '17

23 May '17

Hi, Just to let you know: The archives have been deleted and the mailing list is now open for everyone to subscribe (and the new archives will be public). I suggest we wait until we have that RIPE Labs article ready before we promote the list more? That way people have something to talk about and to volunteer for :-) Mirjam On 17/05/17 15:30, Leslie wrote: > Sounds perfect to me! > > On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 2:52 AM, Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet(a)heanet.ie> wrote: > Cool. > > And I think a blog post would be wonderful. > > Brian > > Brian Nisbet > Network Operations Manager > HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network > 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland > +35316609040 brian.nisbet(a)heanet.ie www.heanet.ie > Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 > > On 17/05/2017 09:40, Mirjam Kuehne wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> So, I think we are in agreement to: >>>> >>>> - open up the list so that people can subscribe - delete the >>>> archives >>>> >>>> Anything else? >>>> >>>> Vesna suggested to write a blog post for RIPE Labs that we can >>>> then use to promote this the activity, the task force and the >>>> mailing list. >>>> >>>> Cheers, Mirjam >>>> >>>> On 17/05/17 10:05, Shane Kerr wrote: >>>>> Vesna, >>>> >>>>> [ warning: transparency advocate speaking ] >>>> >>>>> At 2017-05-15 14:08:12 +0200 Vesna Manojlovic <BECHA(a)ripe.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 15/05/17 13:01, Brian Nisbet wrote: >>>>>>> Afternoon, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll admit I was hoping we could keep this list as the >>>>>>> taskforce internal list, while opening up the membership of >>>>>>> the taskforce. >>>>>> >>>>>> (but how would the taskforce communicate then?!?!) >>>>>> >>>>>> So... >>>>>> >>>>>> Shall we open _another_ list, called "diversity-list(a)ripe.net", >>>>>> and make that completely open - open subscription, >>>>>> open=public archives.. >>>>>> >>>>>> .. and then see what do we send there, and what do we send to >>>>>> *this* smaller list; and if one or the other becomes redundant >>>>>> in a year, we close one.. >>>>>> >>>>>> Otherwise, I am ready to get our techies to do whatever we >>>>>> agree: - clean up the archives - open the existing list to >>>>>> subscription - re-publish the archives... >>>> >>>>> I'd rather just wipe the archives and start fresh. "Cleaning the >>>>> archives" is always going to be tricky, both time-consuming and >>>>> error-prone. I don't see any strong requirement to preserve the >>>>> previous discussion. >>>> >>>>> If we need a closed list then we can set up >>>>> diversity-cabal(a)ripe.net, diversilluminati(a)ripe.net something >>>>> like that (akin to the ${WG}-chairs(a)ripe.net lists for RIPE >>>>> working groups). >>>> >>>>> But honestly I think we are dangerously close to having the >>>>> mindset of a small group of activists who are doing things for or >>>>> to the community rather than being merely the most active folks >>>>> in a larger group of like-minded people. Having a closed list >>>>> strengthens that way of thinking. >>>> >>>>> Lets just be open and if we have problems we can figure out what >>>>> to do, like Leslie said in a separate mail. >>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>>> -- Shane >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ Diversity >>>>> mailing list Diversity(a)ripe.net >>>>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Diversity mailing >>>> list Diversity(a)ripe.net >>>> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Diversity mailing list >> Diversity(a)ripe.net >> https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity > > _______________________________________________ > Diversity mailing list > Diversity(a)ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/diversity >

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Poorer regions travel and so on...
by David Hilario 22 May '17

22 May '17

Hi, Since you are looking at diversity in general, and reason for why people do not participate more, some real life issues preventing from actually going to the meeting can be many. Those are just some examples that are concrete issues preventing people from attending. Basically: 1. Money 2. Papers 3. Legal discrimination This first one is about the simple case of money. Costs were not mentioned too much. The cost of a RIPE meeting ticket, is a monthly salary or more in many countries within the RIPE region and that is without factoring in travel and accommodation. So even if we were to have the meetings inside some of the poorer countries to save them the cost of travelling and accommodation, it would still set them back a lot in just the meeting costs. So the costs itself is a barrier to entry and physical participation regardless of location, just sometimes absurdly too expensive when the meeting ends up in London for example. Second point for the travel papers. Ease of visa requests (if any needed), some countries are easier than other on issuing visas, the Schengen block is actually not the most friendly place on earth to have international conference and receive people from all over the globe, visa applications can be very cumbersome for some countries, even for countries from within the RIPE Region requiring visas to come and visit Schengen block countries. Many will be discourage from applying when you have to hand over your passport for a couple of weeks or months to an embassy that sometimes happen to even be located in another country than your own with no guarantees of success on your application and a lot of humiliation in the process. This third one is the local laws. Some countries may actually not allowing you to be there at all, no visa to be rejected as you simply should not consider it, you are just not welcome just for who you are. Local laws are sometimes themselves prohibiting people from even considering any physical participation. UAE laws are a good example. They do not let people with HIV into the country, let alone let them take their medicines with them. You may be refused entry based on your country of origin or sexual orientation and identification. Those things are known in advance, and people should always read upon where they are going anyways. However, having physical meeting in the various regions even the ones with restrictions is needed to reach out and encompass as much people as possible and invite them to become active members of the community. I do like the dilemma it poses right there, reaching out to certain communities automatically shuts out people from other communities, nice conundrum with no real way out of it. Good luck! Good initiative, lots of headaches :D David Hilario IP Manager Larus Cloud Service Limited p: +852 29888918 m: +359 89 764 1784 f: +852 29888068 a: Flat B5, 11/F, TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road, Tsuen Wan, HKSAR w: laruscloudservice.net/uk e: d.hilario(a)laruscloudservice.net

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