Re: [ncc-services-wg] Re: [db-wg] The New "organisation object" Proposal
I support the view of Hans Petter regarding the additional identification of each organisation by a number making it a separate object in the database. I am in favor using the VAT number for organisations in EU countries and soon in the Eastern Europe Accessing countries and any other national registration number for those organisations established in non-EU countries. Azucena Hans Petter Holen <hpholen@tiscali.no> Enviado por: ncc-services-wg-admin@ripe.net 29/08/03 19:17 Para: Engin Gunduz <engin@ripe.net> cc: Hans Petter Holen <hpholen@tiscali.no>, DB-News <db-news@ripe.net>, <db-wg@ripe.net>, <ncc-services-wg@ripe.net> Asunto: [ncc-services-wg] Re: [db-wg] The New "organisation object" Proposal Clasificación: Uso Interno
I think that this is something too specific to have its own attribute. "remarks:" attribute can be used for this I guess, just like it can be used to point users to web pages etc.
I dont agree: the point about the attribute would be to uniquely identify the organisation within a country. I am quite shure all countries within the EU has this concept of org-number/vat number or public registry number. The good thing is that it stays unique and lives trough name changes. Hans Petter ___________________________________________________________________________ Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is CONFIDENTIAL and protected by professional privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it. ___________________________________________________________________________
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 azucena.hernandezperez@telefonica.es wrote:
I support the view of Hans Petter regarding the additional identification of each organisation by a number making it a separate object in the database. I am in favor using the VAT number for organisations in EU countries and soon in the Eastern Europe Accessing countries and any other national registration number for those organisations established in non-EU countries.
Not all UK businesses are VAT registered. Also, businesses can be unincorporated, sole traders, etc. so they won't necessarily have "company numbers" either. Attempting to number them using any generic criteria won't work. If you want to do this, you'll have to complicate the database/criteria significantly. Sebastien. --- NetConnex Broadband Ltd. tel. +44 870 745 4830 fax. +44 870 745 4831 Court Farm Lodge, 1 Eastway, Epsom, Surrey, KT19 8SG. United Kingdom.
On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 09:10:56AM +0100, Sebastien Lahtinen wrote:
Attempting to number them using any generic criteria won't work. If you want to do this, you'll have to complicate the database/criteria significantly.
I agree. For an 'organisation number' to be useful, the attribute will need to include some text to identify _what_ the number represents, be it a VAT no., company registration number or any of the myriad registration schemes & numbers for clubs, companies, partnerships, etc. in each country. We already have such a field for free text. It's ``remarks:''. Regards, james
On 2003-08-29 09:59:43 +0200, azucena.hernandezperez@telefonica.es wrote:
I support the view of Hans Petter regarding the additional identification of each organisation by a number making it a separate object in the
The org-ID in the "organisation:" attribute will already make it a separate object. The org-ID is unique. Also, it will not change even when the name of the organisation changes.
database. I am in favor using the VAT number for organisations in EU countries and soon in the Eastern Europe Accessing countries and any other national registration number for those organisations established in non-EU countries.
The problem I see here is: This number will mean very little to the whois users outside the EU. If somebody puts any kind of number which is meaningful only in the organisation's country, then an explanation of what that number is, and how it can be used, must be put in a "remarks:" attribute. Thus a "remarks:" attribute is already required??
Azucena
I think that this is something too specific to have its own attribute. "remarks:" attribute can be used for this I guess, just like it can be used to point users to web pages etc.
I dont agree: the point about the attribute would be to uniquely identify the organisation within a country. I am quite shure all countries within the EU has this concept of org-number/vat number or public registry number. The good thing is that it stays unique and lives trough name changes.
See above.
Hans Petter
Best regards, -- Engin Gunduz RIPE NCC Database Group
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Engin Gunduz wrote:
On 2003-08-29 09:59:43 +0200, azucena.hernandezperez@telefonica.es wrote:
I support the view of Hans Petter regarding the additional identification of each organisation by a number making it a separate object in the
The org-ID in the "organisation:" attribute will already make it a separate object. The org-ID is unique. Also, it will not change even when the name of the organisation changes.
database. I am in favor using the VAT number for organisations in EU countries and soon in the Eastern Europe Accessing countries and any other national registration number for those organisations established in non-EU countries.
The problem I see here is: This number will mean very little to the whois users outside the EU. If somebody puts any kind of number which is meaningful only in the organisation's country, then an explanation of what that number is, and how it can be used, must be put in a "remarks:" attribute. Thus a "remarks:" attribute is already required??
In Russia we already use unique VAT numbers in the domain names db which includes "organisation:" objects. In case it is also used in the RIPE db we'll have double option to easily find ips if there are any.
Azucena
I think that this is something too specific to have its own attribute. "remarks:" attribute can be used for this I guess, just like it can be used to point users to web pages etc.
I dont agree: the point about the attribute would be to uniquely identify the organisation within a country. I am quite shure all countries within the EU has this concept of org-number/vat number or public registry number. The good thing is that it stays unique and lives trough name changes.
See above.
Hans Petter
Best regards, -- Engin Gunduz RIPE NCC Database Group
With respect, Larisa Yurkina --- RIPN Registry center -----
At 10:40 +0200 29/8/03, Engin Gunduz wrote:
database. I am in favor using the VAT number for organisations in EU countries and soon in the Eastern Europe Accessing countries and any other national registration number for those organisations established in non-EU countries.
The problem I see here is: This number will mean very little to the whois users outside the EU. If somebody puts any kind of number which is meaningful only in the organisation's country, then an explanation of what that number is, and how it can be used, must be put in a "remarks:" attribute. Thus a "remarks:" attribute is already required??
and in addition it is possible for an organisation to: a Not have a VAT number b Not be willing to make their VAT number public, I have a couple of clients who only hand that information out to organisations that have a need to know the number for tax reclamation purposes. Whereas they would be happy for the NCC to have the number for billing purposes they would not be happy allowing it into the public domain in the dB. f
participants (3)
-
azucena.hernandezperez＠telefonica.es -
Engin Gunduz -
Fearghas McKay -
James Raftery -
Larisa A. Yurkina -
Sebastien Lahtinen