Hi guys It has been pretty quiet on this WG for a while. But I hear from 'sources close to the NCC' that they have been doing some amasing improvements to the Webupdates service. In my day at the NCC there was a manager who said she didn't know what I did (which says more about her than me). One of the many, many, many, many things I did was to let the world know what we were doing. So come on guys, don't be shy, let us all know what is cooking so we can all rejoice in your achievements. cheersdenis
Denis, This is your last warning. You will refrain from making off topic, unprofessional remarks about RIPE NCC staff. The RIPE community’s strength comes from its breadth of experience, diversity of views, and an open, respectful exchange of ideas. Please treat each other with tolerance and respect. Free speech and an open exchange of ideas are encouraged and celebrated. Demeaning, intimidating or harming other participants is wrong. Regards, Job On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:20:51PM +0000, ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Hi guys It has been pretty quiet on this WG for a while. But I hear from 'sources close to the NCC' that they have been doing some amasing improvements to the Webupdates service. In my day at the NCC there was a manager who said she didn't know what I did (which says more about her than me). One of the many, many, many, many things I did was to let the world know what we were doing. So come on guys, don't be shy, let us all know what is cooking so we can all rejoice in your achievements. cheersdenis
Hi all OK so you want it more professional. This works two ways. Let me throw some questions to the group. Given the number of people the RIPE NCC employs related to the RIPE Database, what are they doing? We have just had an update published on the NWIs showing virtually no recent discussions on these topics. So either the RIPE NCC is not working on these items or they are not communicating about any work done to the community. If they are not working on these items what are they working on? As I said, they seem to be making lots of improvements to Webupdates. But maybe not everyone agrees that some of these changes are improvements. I have asked in the past that changes should be announced to the community when they are planned not slipped out into production without telling anyone about them. But that comment was ignored. I questioned the mandatory addition of an "abuse-c:" to any ORGANISATION object created using Webupdates, rather than adding it only to objects that required it. This issue was brushed under the carpet. Adding it to all objects is a lazy option when you don't understand how it works and leads to bad data. Given that the RIPE NCC has such a big, expensive, Communications Department, why are they not communicating to the members/public about the changes being made to database services? The RIPE Database documentation has hardly been changed/updated since I wrote it nearly 2 years ago. So has nothing changed? If so back to the first question, what are they working on? Why are the changes to Webupdates not being properly documented? This is a community tool, not the NCC's toy. The Communications Department has a style guide for how to write documentation and announcements about the RIPE Database. This has never been applied properly since I left. Even today's announcement about the NWIs does not follow it. Maybe it is no longer considered important by the RIPE NCC or the RIPE community to produce documentation or announcements to a professional standard. It is not good that this organisation has lowered their standards so much in the last couple of years. cheersdenis From: Job Snijders <job@instituut.net> To: ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Database WG <db-wg@ripe.net> Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2016, 15:02 Subject: Re: [db-wg] all quiet Denis, This is your last warning. You will refrain from making off topic, unprofessional remarks about RIPE NCC staff. The RIPE community’s strength comes from its breadth of experience, diversity of views, and an open, respectful exchange of ideas. Please treat each other with tolerance and respect. Free speech and an open exchange of ideas are encouraged and celebrated. Demeaning, intimidating or harming other participants is wrong. Regards, Job On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:20:51PM +0000, ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Hi guys It has been pretty quiet on this WG for a while. But I hear from 'sources close to the NCC' that they have been doing some amasing improvements to the Webupdates service. In my day at the NCC there was a manager who said she didn't know what I did (which says more about her than me). One of the many, many, many, many things I did was to let the world know what we were doing. So come on guys, don't be shy, let us all know what is cooking so we can all rejoice in your achievements. cheersdenis
On 9/1/2016 6:58 PM, ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Denis, I think your expectations are way too high based on the service provided and the users who use that service. I'll explain. There are *over *14,000 LIRs, of which I would venture to guess about less than 40 people really care about the issues you raise below or in your subsequent post about "Locking unmaintained PERSON and ROLE objects in the RIPE Database". The vast majority only care about registering some IP resource, with a non-insignificant minority only interested in how to game the system or how to learn to hijack the resources of others. The bloody technical internal details about some DB is just noise to over 13,000 LIRs. Perhaps some industrial soul wants to take this WG archives located at https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/ and run a simple analysis on the From field and show how many different people actively participate on a yearly basis. Not gonna be a lot. Now go say that you can only have one LIR and not allowed to create multiple LIRs or somehow limit the ability to get /22s and you will get hundreds to come out of the woodwork, screaming racism, nepotism, and anything else they can conjure up. I do hear your frustration. Like you, many of us are perfectionists who want the service to be "just right". But other work and commitments don't afford us the ability to invest the time to do just that. In that vacuum, large organizations thrive. Could RIPE NCC communicate better? Probably. Could RIPE NCC use a manpower cut? Probably. But all in all, the service works and that is what 14,000 LIRS really only care about. Peace, -Hank
Hi all
OK so you want it more professional. This works two ways. Let me throw some questions to the group. Given the number of people the RIPE NCC employs related to the RIPE Database, what are they doing? We have just had an update published on the NWIs showing virtually no recent discussions on these topics. So either the RIPE NCC is not working on these items or they are not communicating about any work done to the community. If they are not working on these items what are they working on?
As I said, they seem to be making lots of improvements to Webupdates. But maybe not everyone agrees that some of these changes are improvements. I have asked in the past that changes should be announced to the community when they are planned not slipped out into production without telling anyone about them. But that comment was ignored. I questioned the mandatory addition of an "abuse-c:" to any ORGANISATION object created using Webupdates, rather than adding it only to objects that required it. This issue was brushed under the carpet. Adding it to all objects is a lazy option when you don't understand how it works and leads to bad data.
Given that the RIPE NCC has such a big, expensive, Communications Department, why are they not communicating to the members/public about the changes being made to database services? The RIPE Database documentation has hardly been changed/updated since I wrote it nearly 2 years ago. So has nothing changed? If so back to the first question, what are they working on? Why are the changes to Webupdates not being properly documented? This is a community tool, not the NCC's toy.
The Communications Department has a style guide for how to write documentation and announcements about the RIPE Database. This has never been applied properly since I left. Even today's announcement about the NWIs does not follow it. Maybe it is no longer considered important by the RIPE NCC or the RIPE community to produce documentation or announcements to a professional standard. It is not good that this organisation has lowered their standards so much in the last couple of years.
cheers denis
------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Job Snijders <job@instituut.net> *To:* ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk
*Cc:* Database WG <db-wg@ripe.net> *Sent:* Thursday, 1 September 2016, 15:02 *Subject:* Re: [db-wg] all quiet
Denis,
This is your last warning. You will refrain from making off topic, unprofessional remarks about RIPE NCC staff.
The RIPE community’s strength comes from its breadth of experience, diversity of views, and an open, respectful exchange of ideas.
Please treat each other with tolerance and respect. Free speech and an open exchange of ideas are encouraged and celebrated. Demeaning, intimidating or harming other participants is wrong.
Regards,
Job
On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:20:51PM +0000, ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk <mailto:ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
Hi guys It has been pretty quiet on this WG for a while. But I hear from 'sources close to the NCC' that they have been doing some amasing improvements to the Webupdates service. In my day at the NCC there was a manager who said she didn't know what I did (which says more about her than me). One of the many, many, many, many things I did was to let the world know what we were doing. So come on guys, don't be shy, let us all know what is cooking so we can all rejoice in your achievements. cheersdenis
Denis, I am asking myself if here is washed dirty laundry in public! Have you asked your questions and expressed your concerns directly at RIPE NCC? Didn't you get an answer? Have you raised your conerns to the DB WG chairs? Didn't you get an answer? On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 03:58:40PM +0000, ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Hi all OK so you want it more professional. This works two ways. Let me throw some questions to the group. Given the number of people the RIPE NCC employs related to the RIPE Database, what are they doing? We have just had an update published on the NWIs showing virtually no recent discussions on these topics. So either the RIPE NCC is not working on these items or they are not communicating about any work done to the community. If they are not working on these items what are they working on? As I said, they seem to be making lots of improvements to Webupdates. But maybe not everyone agrees that some of these changes are improvements. I have asked in the past that changes should be announced to the community when they are planned not slipped out into production without telling anyone about them. But that comment was ignored. I questioned the mandatory addition of an "abuse-c:" to any ORGANISATION object created using Webupdates, rather than adding it only to objects that required it. This issue was brushed under the carpet. Adding it to all objects is a lazy option when you don't understand how it works and leads to bad data.
Given that the RIPE NCC has such a big, expensive, Communications Department, why are they not communicating to the members/public about the changes being made to database services? The RIPE Database documentation has hardly been changed/updated since I wrote it nearly 2 years ago. So has nothing changed? If so back to the first question, what are they working on? Why are the changes to Webupdates not being properly documented? This is a community tool, not the NCC's toy. The Communications Department has a style guide for how to write documentation and announcements about the RIPE Database. This has never been applied properly since I left. Even today's announcement about the NWIs does not follow it. Maybe it is no longer considered important by the RIPE NCC or the RIPE community to produce documentation or announcements to a professional standard. It is not good that this organisation has lowered their standards so much in the last couple of years.
cheersdenis
From: Job Snijders <job@instituut.net> To: ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk Cc: Database WG <db-wg@ripe.net> Sent: Thursday, 1 September 2016, 15:02 Subject: Re: [db-wg] all quiet
Denis,
This is your last warning. You will refrain from making off topic, unprofessional remarks about RIPE NCC staff.
The RIPE community’s strength comes from its breadth of experience, diversity of views, and an open, respectful exchange of ideas.
Please treat each other with tolerance and respect. Free speech and an open exchange of ideas are encouraged and celebrated. Demeaning, intimidating or harming other participants is wrong.
Regards,
Job
On Wed, Aug 31, 2016 at 11:20:51PM +0000, ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
Hi guys It has been pretty quiet on this WG for a while. But I hear from 'sources close to the NCC' that they have been doing some amasing improvements to the Webupdates service. In my day at the NCC there was a manager who said she didn't know what I did (which says more about her than me). One of the many, many, many, many things I did was to let the world know what we were doing. So come on guys, don't be shy, let us all know what is cooking so we can all rejoice in your achievements. cheersdenis
-- Viele Gruesse/Best Regards, Hubert Waibel DFN VEREIN Network Operation Center +----------------+ eMail: noc@noc.dfn.de http://www.dfn.de/ | AS680 | Phone: +49(0)711-63314-112 Fax: +49(0)711-63314-133 | 2001:638::/32 | Fehlermanagement 24x7 Trouble Ticket System (TTS) | join IPv6 now! | Phone: +49(0)1805-008447 https://tts-xwin.dfn.de +----------------+
On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 03:58:40PM +0000, ripedenis@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
OK so you want it more professional. This works two ways. Let me throw some questions to the group. Given the number of people the RIPE NCC employs related to the RIPE Database, what are they doing? We have just had an update published on the NWIs showing virtually no recent discussions on these topics. So either the RIPE NCC is not working on these items or they are not communicating about any work done to the community. If they are not working on these items what are they working on?
You might be misunderstanding how the work items are supposed to work: we as working group are the ones that are supposed to work on the NWIs. They are not the NCC's work items, they are OUR work items. Any quietness on this mailinglist can only be attributed to ourselves.
participants (5)
-
Hank Nussbacher -
Hubert Waibel -
Job Snijders -
Job Snijders -
ripedenis＠yahoo.co.uk