Clear up of old issues - Whiepages
Colleagues The co-chairs recently had a zoom meeting with the RIPE NCC. One of the things we discussed was clearing up a number of old issues. We need to clear the deck and move on with new and perhaps more relevant issues. We will address a number of issues for the last time. In some cases the chairs will make a recommendation. As these are quite old issues, we will take silence as consensus for the chair's recommendation. The first issue is Whitepages. This is a feature from about 10+ years ago. It was intended to preserve the PERSON object in the RIPE Database and protect it from automatic deletion if it is not referenced from any operational data. It was to use the RIPE Database as a phone book for well known people in the industry who may not be resource holders. There are many other ways to provide such contact details today. It was only ever used by a handful of people. The RIPE NCC now has other ways to preserve ROLE objects if needed, for example if used by RIPE Atlas users. The chairs recommend removing this feature from the RIPE Database. If you need a ROLE object to be preserved, contact ripe-dbm@ripe.net to discuss. cheers denis co-chair DB-WG
Hi Denis, While I kinda support this, I also like how the whitepages feature allows you to easily see if an object was protected from deletion or not. Would it be possible to add some kind of extra data in the whois response for protected objects? (like the data about abuse email when you query for an ASN or IP address/prefix) Regardless, given the low number of protected handles, I think it makes sense to contact them before doing this and protect them using the new method unless they object to it. -Cynthia On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 3:56 PM denis walker via db-wg <db-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
Colleagues
The co-chairs recently had a zoom meeting with the RIPE NCC. One of the things we discussed was clearing up a number of old issues. We need to clear the deck and move on with new and perhaps more relevant issues. We will address a number of issues for the last time. In some cases the chairs will make a recommendation. As these are quite old issues, we will take silence as consensus for the chair's recommendation.
The first issue is Whitepages. This is a feature from about 10+ years ago. It was intended to preserve the PERSON object in the RIPE Database and protect it from automatic deletion if it is not referenced from any operational data. It was to use the RIPE Database as a phone book for well known people in the industry who may not be resource holders. There are many other ways to provide such contact details today. It was only ever used by a handful of people. The RIPE NCC now has other ways to preserve ROLE objects if needed, for example if used by RIPE Atlas users.
The chairs recommend removing this feature from the RIPE Database. If you need a ROLE object to be preserved, contact ripe-dbm@ripe.net to discuss.
cheers denis co-chair DB-WG
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Hi Cynthia I just checked and currently there are only 4 people using the whitepages and 1 of them is NCC staff. Certainly they will be contacted before deleting the feature. Why is it important to know what objects are protected from deletion? If it is not referenced by any resource object (directly or indirectly) and it is still in the DB in 3 months time, it is protected. Just a side point for people to think about, should the NCC only offer to protect ROLE objects that do not contain personal data? The only reason for protecting objects is for contact details needed for other services by non resource holders. Perhaps we should not be protecting personal data that is not related to resources. Contact details do not need to be personal. cheers denis co-chair DB-WG On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 01:26, Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> wrote:
Hi Denis,
While I kinda support this, I also like how the whitepages feature allows you to easily see if an object was protected from deletion or not.
Would it be possible to add some kind of extra data in the whois response for protected objects? (like the data about abuse email when you query for an ASN or IP address/prefix)
Regardless, given the low number of protected handles, I think it makes sense to contact them before doing this and protect them using the new method unless they object to it.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 3:56 PM denis walker via db-wg <db-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
Colleagues
The co-chairs recently had a zoom meeting with the RIPE NCC. One of the things we discussed was clearing up a number of old issues. We need to clear the deck and move on with new and perhaps more relevant issues. We will address a number of issues for the last time. In some cases the chairs will make a recommendation. As these are quite old issues, we will take silence as consensus for the chair's recommendation.
The first issue is Whitepages. This is a feature from about 10+ years ago. It was intended to preserve the PERSON object in the RIPE Database and protect it from automatic deletion if it is not referenced from any operational data. It was to use the RIPE Database as a phone book for well known people in the industry who may not be resource holders. There are many other ways to provide such contact details today. It was only ever used by a handful of people. The RIPE NCC now has other ways to preserve ROLE objects if needed, for example if used by RIPE Atlas users.
The chairs recommend removing this feature from the RIPE Database. If you need a ROLE object to be preserved, contact ripe-dbm@ripe.net to discuss.
cheers denis co-chair DB-WG
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Hi denis,
On 22 Feb 2022, at 16:18, denis walker via db-wg <db-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
Hi Cynthia
I just checked and currently there are only 4 people using the whitepages and 1 of them is NCC staff. Certainly they will be contacted before deleting the feature.
I counted 5, none staff :) I consider myself contacted, proceed as the wg wishes. Wonder if this is the oldest object in the DB per its creation date. Joao
Just a side point for people to think about, should the NCC only offer to protect ROLE objects that do not contain personal data?
I do not think so, I still want to keep the functionality of whitepages, I only agree with removing duplicate implementations of it. I know that both me and several others do use handles in various cases like contact information in presentations. While you can argue about how valid this use case is, I think the cat is kinda out of the bag, and we need to keep supporting this use case for those who explicitly say they want it. Unless the NCC legal team has a problem with it that is, but I hope and would think they don't as these are cases when the person in question has explicitly requested it to be protected. -Cynthia On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 4:18 PM denis walker <ripedenis@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Cynthia
I just checked and currently there are only 4 people using the whitepages and 1 of them is NCC staff. Certainly they will be contacted before deleting the feature.
Why is it important to know what objects are protected from deletion? If it is not referenced by any resource object (directly or indirectly) and it is still in the DB in 3 months time, it is protected.
Just a side point for people to think about, should the NCC only offer to protect ROLE objects that do not contain personal data? The only reason for protecting objects is for contact details needed for other services by non resource holders. Perhaps we should not be protecting personal data that is not related to resources. Contact details do not need to be personal.
cheers denis co-chair DB-WG
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 01:26, Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> wrote:
Hi Denis,
While I kinda support this, I also like how the whitepages feature allows you to easily see if an object was protected from deletion or not.
Would it be possible to add some kind of extra data in the whois response for protected objects? (like the data about abuse email when you query for an ASN or IP address/prefix)
Regardless, given the low number of protected handles, I think it makes sense to contact them before doing this and protect them using the new method unless they object to it.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 3:56 PM denis walker via db-wg <db-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
Colleagues
The co-chairs recently had a zoom meeting with the RIPE NCC. One of the things we discussed was clearing up a number of old issues. We need to clear the deck and move on with new and perhaps more relevant issues. We will address a number of issues for the last time. In some cases the chairs will make a recommendation. As these are quite old issues, we will take silence as consensus for the chair's recommendation.
The first issue is Whitepages. This is a feature from about 10+ years ago. It was intended to preserve the PERSON object in the RIPE Database and protect it from automatic deletion if it is not referenced from any operational data. It was to use the RIPE Database as a phone book for well known people in the industry who may not be resource holders. There are many other ways to provide such contact details today. It was only ever used by a handful of people. The RIPE NCC now has other ways to preserve ROLE objects if needed, for example if used by RIPE Atlas users.
The chairs recommend removing this feature from the RIPE Database. If you need a ROLE object to be preserved, contact ripe-dbm@ripe.net to discuss.
cheers denis co-chair DB-WG
--
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Why is it important to know what objects are protected from deletion? If it is not referenced by any resource object (directly or indirectly) and it is still in the DB in 3 months time, it is
Oh right I forgot to add: protected. It is just because you will not know if it is protected until it is deleted, so if it is not protected you will not know until it is too late. -Cynthia On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 9:00 PM Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> wrote:
Just a side point for people to think about, should the NCC only offer to protect ROLE objects that do not contain personal data?
I do not think so, I still want to keep the functionality of whitepages, I only agree with removing duplicate implementations of it.
I know that both me and several others do use handles in various cases like contact information in presentations. While you can argue about how valid this use case is, I think the cat is kinda out of the bag, and we need to keep supporting this use case for those who explicitly say they want it. Unless the NCC legal team has a problem with it that is, but I hope and would think they don't as these are cases when the person in question has explicitly requested it to be protected.
-Cynthia
On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 4:18 PM denis walker <ripedenis@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Cynthia
I just checked and currently there are only 4 people using the whitepages and 1 of them is NCC staff. Certainly they will be contacted before deleting the feature.
Why is it important to know what objects are protected from deletion? If it is not referenced by any resource object (directly or indirectly) and it is still in the DB in 3 months time, it is protected.
Just a side point for people to think about, should the NCC only offer to protect ROLE objects that do not contain personal data? The only reason for protecting objects is for contact details needed for other services by non resource holders. Perhaps we should not be protecting personal data that is not related to resources. Contact details do not need to be personal.
cheers denis co-chair DB-WG
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 01:26, Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> wrote:
Hi Denis,
While I kinda support this, I also like how the whitepages feature allows you to easily see if an object was protected from deletion or not.
Would it be possible to add some kind of extra data in the whois response for protected objects? (like the data about abuse email when you query for an ASN or IP address/prefix)
Regardless, given the low number of protected handles, I think it makes sense to contact them before doing this and protect them using the new method unless they object to it.
-Cynthia
On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 3:56 PM denis walker via db-wg <db-wg@ripe.net> wrote:
Colleagues
The co-chairs recently had a zoom meeting with the RIPE NCC. One of the things we discussed was clearing up a number of old issues. We need to clear the deck and move on with new and perhaps more relevant issues. We will address a number of issues for the last time. In some cases the chairs will make a recommendation. As these are quite old issues, we will take silence as consensus for the chair's recommendation.
The first issue is Whitepages. This is a feature from about 10+ years ago. It was intended to preserve the PERSON object in the RIPE Database and protect it from automatic deletion if it is not referenced from any operational data. It was to use the RIPE Database as a phone book for well known people in the industry who may not be resource holders. There are many other ways to provide such contact details today. It was only ever used by a handful of people. The RIPE NCC now has other ways to preserve ROLE objects if needed, for example if used by RIPE Atlas users.
The chairs recommend removing this feature from the RIPE Database. If you need a ROLE object to be preserved, contact ripe-dbm@ripe.net to discuss.
cheers denis co-chair DB-WG
--
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Hi Cynthia On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 21:02, Cynthia Revström <me@cynthia.re> wrote:
Oh right I forgot to add:
Why is it important to know what objects are protected from deletion? If it is not referenced by any resource object (directly or indirectly) and it is still in the DB in 3 months time, it is protected.
It is just because you will not know if it is protected until it is deleted, so if it is not protected you will not know until it is too late.
On this point I would hope that if you agree this with the NCC and they confirm to you that it is protected then you can trust the NCC. In a worst case scenario the NCC is able to restore deleted PERSON/ROLE objects with the same NicHdl. cheers denis co-chair DB-WG
-Cynthia
Colleagues There has been no objection to deprecating the Whitepages. The chairs therefore ask the RIPE NCC to contact the 4 people still using it and make alternative arrangements for them. Then they can remove the Whitepages functionality from the database. (One old issue finally resolved...) cheers denis co-chair DB-WG On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 at 15:55, denis walker <ripedenis@gmail.com> wrote:
Colleagues
The co-chairs recently had a zoom meeting with the RIPE NCC. One of the things we discussed was clearing up a number of old issues. We need to clear the deck and move on with new and perhaps more relevant issues. We will address a number of issues for the last time. In some cases the chairs will make a recommendation. As these are quite old issues, we will take silence as consensus for the chair's recommendation.
The first issue is Whitepages. This is a feature from about 10+ years ago. It was intended to preserve the PERSON object in the RIPE Database and protect it from automatic deletion if it is not referenced from any operational data. It was to use the RIPE Database as a phone book for well known people in the industry who may not be resource holders. There are many other ways to provide such contact details today. It was only ever used by a handful of people. The RIPE NCC now has other ways to preserve ROLE objects if needed, for example if used by RIPE Atlas users.
The chairs recommend removing this feature from the RIPE Database. If you need a ROLE object to be preserved, contact ripe-dbm@ripe.net to discuss.
cheers denis co-chair DB-WG
Hi Denis, Colleagues,
On 1 Mar 2022, at 16:07, denis walker <ripedenis@gmail.com> wrote:
Colleagues
There has been no objection to deprecating the Whitepages. The chairs therefore ask the RIPE NCC to contact the 4 people still using it and make alternative arrangements for them. Then they can remove the Whitepages functionality from the database. (One old issue finally resolved...)
cheers denis co-chair DB-WG
The DB team will take care of this. This change will only impact those persons currently referenced from the white pages organisation. A brief implementation plan: * We will contact the affected people directly and give them advance notice of any changes. * We will remove the organisation object ORG-PAGE1-RIPE from the RIPE database. * We will remove the org-type: WHITEPAGES from the Whois application in the next release. * We will remove any references to White Pages from the Database documentation. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC
participants (4)
-
Cynthia Revström -
denis walker -
Edward Shryane -
Joao Luis Silva Damas