Hello, a couple of additions to the discussion:

* Can we please drop the possibility of allowing IP numbers here? * If one of the secondaries of your domain changes IP number, then * he has the nearly impossible task of finding all these outdated * references. Bind only allows hostnames here; I think it is a good * idea to restrict the database in the same way. * * => IP numbers were allowed in the previous template then we need * a general agreement before dropping this possibility...

Perhaps we should try and completely overhaul the domain object? Why would we go for small changes when we may need major changes?

I somehow agree with the positions Geert Jan and Marten gave, a complete overhaul is probably needed and especially the nserver, IP-address idea was much discussed the last time at the RIPE meeting in Amsterdam (May 1994) with the idea that there is a much more useful place to store it - BIND ! On the other hand there is maybe one useful point to IP-numbers here, for a domain abc.zz with a set of nameservers ns1.abc.zz and ns2.abc.zz which have lost connectivity - a very bad situation, I agree - it might be helpful to find there IP addresses here as well, so I would propose to use it only for nserver within the specified domain. domain: ABC.zz descr: ABC company .... nserver: ns1.abc.zz 194.205.120.3 nserver: ns2.abc.zz 194.205.120.6 nserver: ns.domain.my nserver: foo.bar.com ... Giving the primary first is probably a good idea, but what about 'hidden' primaries. It is I think a common situation for organisation behind a dial-up connection administering there own nameserver (as given in the SOA) with only a set of secondaries published as NS-RR's. This cannot be documented - if one wants to - this way, but maybe with a useful remark:

* => there is a loose binding between names and addresses. * This attribute can be used if someone'd like to describe it. * This attribute has been made optional then you use it only * if you like.

Hmm, personally I'd bin the attribute.....

I think that most of the attributes made optional instead of obsolete could be seen as a compromise we can agree upon as a transitional step until the complete overhaul - if not achieveable at this meeting ?

...

admin-c: The admin-c attribute contains the name or the NIC

I suggest to make mandatory that the administrative contact should reside on the site itself. Assume that people have outsourced the 'technical stuff' of their network, then it is likely that the technical contact is someone belonging to another company, and it might be difficult to get in touch with the holder of the domain itself because the address/phone number is different.

=> the admin contact for domains is different from the admin contact for networks. It is explicitely an administrative person who can answer to questions about name property, legal problems, etc... In fact I understand your problem but I believe the change should be done in the network template.

I totally agree with Geert Jan here, the admin-c should be from the organisation using domain and should be changed if he no longer represents this organisation. I didn't follow the discussion but heard some rumors about mtv.com but this way might be a good start. You have to have the organisation's address and at least one phone number somewhere. Another but important aspect I think would be to find a better (more up to date) example, if it should convince and educate new registries. The current one contains a number of factional errors (I'll append the correct entry at the bottom of this posting) and some discrepancy to it's own explanation for instance the format of the change dates not in format YYMMDD. Finally with the handles and names as key values for person objects 1.2 could be reformulated. Before entering or updating person objects the database should be checked for existing entries which were created as references of other objects (inetnum,...). Care should be taken to keep them up to date, without generating duplicate entries one with and one without a handle. I did it a number of times myself when I started using handles so please don't take it as an accusation to anybody. On the other hand the advent of ripe handles gives us the proper way to create different objects for one person where necessary - e.g. if he has his own domain at home and supports a number of networks or anything else at work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- domain: uka.de descr: Universitaet Karlsruhe descr: Informatik Rechnerabteilung IRA descr: Am Fasanengarten 5, D-76128 Karlsruhe, Germany admin-c: WZ5-RIPE tech-c: KB49 tech-c: AN45 zone-c: KB49 nserver: iraun1.ira.uka.de nserver: iraux1.ira.uka.de nserver: ns.germany.eu.net nserver: ns.nic.de sub-dom: ira dom-net: 129.13.0.0 192.54.104.0 mnt-by: DE-DOM changed: nipper@ira.uka.de 910208 changed: knocke@nic.de 941121 source: RIPE person: Werner Zorn address: Universitaet Karlsruhe address: Informatikrechnerabteilung address: Am Fasanengarten 5 address: D-76128 Karlsruhe address: Germany phone: +49 721 608 3981 fax-no: +49 721 699 284 e-mail: zorn@IRA.UKA.DE nic-hdl: WZ5-RIPE mnt-by: DENIC-P changed: dfk@cwi.nl 900411 changed: rv@Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE 930704 changed: knocke@nic.de 941121 source: RIPE person: Klaus Becker address: Universitaet Karlsruhe address: Informatikrechnerabteilung address: Am Fasanengarten 5 address: D-76128 Karlsruhe address: Germany phone: +49 721 608 3973 fax-no: +49 721 699 284 e-mail: becker@ira.uka.de nic-hdl: KB49 mnt-by: DENIC-P changed: nipper@xlink.net 940406 changed: knocke@nic.de 941121 source: RIPE person: Arnold Nipper address: NTG Netzwerk und Telematic GmbH address: Geschaeftsbereich XLINK address: Vincenz-Priessnitz-Str. 3 address: D-76131 Karlsruhe address: Germany phone: +49 721 9652 0 fax-no: +49 721 9652 210 e-mail: nipper@xlink.net nic-hdl: AN45 changed: nipper@xlink.net 940616 source: RIPE