marcel, i think nick and cynthia answered your question. but there remains the question of where the heck one goes for day to day routing ops help. as cynthia pointed out, this wg is more for the policy and technical underpinnings, not actuall operations. what's strange is that it is not at all obvious where a relative newcomer goes for such discussion. in typical imperialist fashion, the North American Network Operators' Group mailing list [0] has become the default global ops list. i recommend it. there used to be the European Operators' Forum, but RIPE swollowed it about 2004 and now you can sign up for a glossy webinar from the NCC which will not actually answer your question if it even allowed you to ask it </snark>. and, because the nanog list has about 10,000 subscribers, the behavior is not always encouraging. you can safely just ignore snarky people such as i. [0] - https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog randy --- randy@psg.com `gpg --locate-external-keys --auto-key-locate wkd randy@psg.com` signatures are back, thanks to dmarc header butchery