Dear colleagues,

After reading the discussion on NWI-20, I would like to explain why I think the NWI process is suitable for finding consensus on the proposed changes:
- With the exception of abuse-c, there is no current policy defining which contact methods are mandatory and which are optional. This has always been defined by the RIPE Database rules.
- Only objects managed by RIPE Database users are in scope because the RIPE NCC does not maintain person or role objects.
- Only those person and role objects created, modified and referenced as admin-c and tech-c after the implementation would be affected by the proposed changes.

Please note that I do not see this as excluding use of the PDP for future registration policies, which might describe actions the RIPE NCC must undertake to verify compliance.

I hope this helps,

Kind regards,
Angela

Angela Dall'Ara
Policy Officer
RIPE NCC

On 20/09/2025 11:46, David Tatlisu via db-wg wrote:

Hi Everybody,

Depending on the interpretation of ripe-508, email addresses might already be a mandatory but unenforced part of PERSON objects.

In the context of Internet number resources, the policy states:
> In case the Status is either "Allocated" or "Legacy", the following information is also mandatory:
[…]
> Contact information for matters of an administrative nature, and for matters of a technical nature. This information consists of an email address and a telephone number

I read this as "The mandatory attributes admin-c and tech-c must have an email address and telephone number."
The backend allows referencing a PERSON object not containing an email address as well as a ROLE object that does not include a phone number for these two attributes, which would make a policy violation possible by my interpretation.

Edward has looked through the RIPE policies behind the scenes and did not find any other policy that would need changes because of this change.

I might be misunderstanding this and would love to hear additional input from the community on this matter.

Assuming I did not misunderstand, this would make a policy change unnecessary to proceed. Please correct me in case I misunderstood.

Regardless of the topic above, changing about a million PERSON objects is not a small task. I, personally, agree with Ed here. I do not see a way of implementing this without a gradual multi-step plan, if at all possible.

I am more than happy to allocate time for this in the RIPE 91 agenda or start planning another interim working group session to discuss this issue further.

Best regards,
David
DB-WG Chair

On 9/19/25 9:42 AM, Edward Shryane wrote:

Dear colleagues,

On 18 Sep 2025, at 14:41, denis walker<ripedenis@gmail.com> wrote:

Colleagues

I guess no one has an opinion on any of this. You are happy to continue with an NWI to create an unenforceable mandatory email address. You don't see any problems adding a new mandatory attribute across, potentially, millions of objects. And you are all OK to continue adding and maintaining an existing mandatory email in millions of objects, even though none of you have any idea what that attribute means. I don't think anyone has time to consider RIPE Database issues any more. As long as it still, just about, works then leave it alone. Well good luck with this project. You will need it if you go ahead with it.

cheers
denis

The DB team are working on a Solution Definition for NWI-20 and I'd like some feedback on the points that Denis has rasied before we proceed further.

Firstly, do we need to use the Policy Development Process to make e-mail mandatory on person objects? E-mail is already mandatory on organisation and role but not on person. I couldn't find a reason for this inconsistency in existing policies, or any requirement to make it so.

Secondly, do we need to cleanup existing person objects if e-mail is changed to be mandatory? Half of the existing 2 million person objects do not have an e-mail attribute. It seems unlikely that maintainers will add e-mail retrospectively. We could add validation to require e-mail only when person objects are updated, however most person objects are created and never updated again. We could add validation to require e-mail when a person is added as a contact on another object, however most exising persons are referenced from a single assignment and then never referenced again.

Thirdly, should mandatory e-mail remain part of NWI-20, in addition to creating new contact types? Multiple people in this thread have asked for it, but perhaps the changes can be made in phases, and the wider issues that Denis has raised can be tackled separately.

Regards
Ed Shryane
RIPE NCC

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