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RE: [db-wg] Proposal: Abuse-C as a Reference
by Rodney Tillotson 11 May '04

11 May '04

Ulrich Kiermayr wrote at 5/6/04 09:25: > This abuse-c inherits all the features of irt as well ... Except that crypto is optional. Fair enough. > ... resulting in just one object for this area I suggest we keep IRT for the purpose for which it was built, and make no changes to it (so it will be different from the role or person used we make available for abuse). This might actually encourage the use of IRT objects, since it reduces the risk that CSIRTs will get abuse reports they mostly don't want. And IRTs may then be useful, so I don't support removing them. > Implementing abuse-c that way would give a 1:1 mapping between > irt and role and therefore making irt obsolete (and the existing > objects auto-convertable). I think the 1-1 mapping is unnecessary; auto-copying is still possible. Can you confirm that the abuse-c: attribute can also refer to an IRT object for people who want to do it that way? > Add the missing features from irt: to the person and role objects: > > person: [mandatory] [single] [lookup key] > address: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] > phone: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] > fax-no: [optional] [multiple] [ ] > e-mail: [optional] [multiple] [lookup key] > signature: [optional] [multiple] [ ] <-- > encryption: [optional] [multiple] [ ] <-- > nic-hdl: [mandatory] [single] [primary/look-up key] > remarks: [optional] [multiple] [ ] > notify: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] > mnt-by: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] > ref-nfy: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] <-- > mnt-ref: [optional] [multiple] [ ] <-- > changed: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] > source: [mandatory] [single] [ ] Do we need a dedicated attribute in role and person? abuse-mail: [optional] [multiple] [ ] (or the name could be 'abuse-mailbox' as in Ulrich's example) Does the attribute need to be a lookup key like e-mail? (again as in the example) Should we make the abuse-mail attribute mandatory for the object types concerned? But that might force us to use a new object type :-( > Query behaviour: > > Return abuse-c by default as well The thing to return is not the name of the abuse-c reference; it's the abuse-mail attribute of the object referred to. Perhaps that's what you meant anyway? > Return abuse-c by default as well > (or include default -c i.e. return abuse-c from the least specific > inetnum containing the ip in question). Not quite, surely. We want to provide one user population with exactly one e-mail address and not too much else; so somehow we have to walk the database for them and not put the burden on them or their client software. I do not believe we can expect tool writers (eg SpamCop, geektools) to do that for us; I do not believe we can deploy a different whois client. We might get away with publishing a different server location (whois-for-the-masses.ripe.net? abuse.ripe.net?); or with putting this behaviour on whois.ripe.net and moving the present behaviour to a new address. But don't we want to present the mail address derived from the _most_ specific inetnum (rather than the least)? > Change the -c flag to use abuse-c instead of mnt-irt. No need to change that behaviour if we take the above approach. Rodney Tillotson, JANET-CERT

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Draft minutes for the RIPE 48 DB working group
by Titley, Nigel 08 May '04

08 May '04

Gentlefolk, Herewith first draft of the minutes for the WG meeting at RIPE 48 Comments and corrections to me please. Nigel -- Nigel Titley Peering Coordinator, FLAG Telecom +44 20 7478 9579 ********************************************************************** This e-mail message is confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and contains information which is or may be confidential, non-public or legally privileged. Any dissemination or distribution of this message other than to its intended recipient is strictly prohibited. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose the contents to any other person. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by email to postmaster(a)flagtelecom.com immediately and delete the original message and all copies from all locations in your computer systems. This e-mail has been swept by Mailsweeper TM for viruses. However, FLAG Telecom cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses. ********************************************************************** This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.mailcontrol.com

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Re: [db-wg] Abuse-C/IRT
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 07 May '04

07 May '04

Hi Pim, >| Hmm, this is nice, but not really necessary, because with the -c flag in >| the whois-query you should get tho the allocated /40 anyway. >| >| i.e. your change should increase the # of objects, bur not the Footprint >| of the IRT > [ ... ] > , should I revert that software >change and NOT set mnt-irt in the more specifics, or should I leave it >as is. Opinions ? setting it to the _same_ pointer is superfluous or just duplication of information. Unless you want to do it for a particular purpose (like to be explicit), it is a bad idea - having duplicate info in a dataset leaves you with the risk of missing one copy when an update is necessary. BUT - what you can do with this mechanism is to point to a _different_ irt object. Either for a subset of your own infrastructure (like a regional PoP), or as a 1st level contact for your downstreams. And those downstreams can update the contact info without having to bother you in your role as the _address_ bookkeeping :-) Wilfried.

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Proposal: Abuse-C as a Reference
by Ulrich Kiermayr 07 May '04

07 May '04

Hello, To put together a Proposal for how a Referece solution could be done . This abuse-c inherits all the features of irt as well, resulting in just one object for this area [Like in tech-c which is also not fine-grained like having something for routing, something for hardware, for peering, for .....] What can be done to have the 'abuse-mailbox' like in Randy/niall's proposal would be the Role/Person object: This would also make it easier to reference existing data, i.e. the one Person NOC where the local guru is admin and tech and abuse. For example: inetnum: 131.130.7.32 - 131.130.7.47 netname: UK-V4 descr: LAN Ulrich Kiermayr country: AT admin-c: UK3 tech-c: UK3 abuse-c: UK3 mnt-by: UK-MNT status: ASSIGNED PA changed: ulrich.kiermayr(a)univie.ac.at 20040506 source: RIPE person: Ulrich Kiermayr address: Lacknergasse 71/23 address: A-1180 Wien address: AT phone: +43 663 8174818 e-mail: Ulrich.Kiermayr(a)UniVie.ac.at abuse-mailbox:abuse@uk.atat.at # up to disc. nic-hdl: UK3 mnt-by: UK-MNT notify: Ulrich.Kiermayr(a)UniVie.ac.at changed: Ulrich.Kiermayr(a)UniVie.ac.at 20020723 source: RIPE --------------------------- Proposed Templates: [Changes are denoted by the <--] Add abuse-c to the objects where we need it (note that i have removed mnt-irt there) inetnum: [mandatory] [single] [primary/look-up key] netname: [mandatory] [single] [lookup key] descr: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] country: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] admin-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] tech-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] abuse-c: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] <-- rev-srv: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] status: [mandatory] [single] [ ] remarks: [optional] [multiple] [ ] notify: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-by: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-lower: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-routes: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] changed: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] source: [mandatory] [single] [ ] inet6num: [mandatory] [single] [primary/look-up key] netname: [mandatory] [single] [lookup key] descr: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] country: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] admin-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] tech-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] abuse-c: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] <-- rev-srv: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] status: [mandatory] [single] [ ] remarks: [optional] [multiple] [ ] notify: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-by: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-lower: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] changed: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] source: [mandatory] [single] [ ] aut-num: [mandatory] [single] [primary/look-up key] as-name: [mandatory] [single] [ ] descr: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] member-of: [optional] [multiple] [ ] import: [optional] [multiple] [ ] export: [optional] [multiple] [ ] default: [optional] [multiple] [ ] remarks: [optional] [multiple] [ ] admin-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] tech-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] abuse-c: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] <-- notify: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-lower: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-routes: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-by: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] changed: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] source: [mandatory] [single] [ ] Add the missing features from irt: to the person and role objects: person: [mandatory] [single] [lookup key] address: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] phone: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] fax-no: [optional] [multiple] [ ] e-mail: [optional] [multiple] [lookup key] signature: [optional] [multiple] [ ] <-- encryption: [optional] [multiple] [ ] <-- nic-hdl: [mandatory] [single] [primary/look-up key] remarks: [optional] [multiple] [ ] notify: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-by: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] ref-nfy: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] <-- mnt-ref: [optional] [multiple] [ ] <-- changed: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] source: [mandatory] [single] [ ] role: [mandatory] [single] [lookup key] address: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] phone: [optional] [multiple] [ ] fax-no: [optional] [multiple] [ ] e-mail: [mandatory] [multiple] [lookup key] signature: [optional] [multiple] [ ] <-- encryption: [optional] [multiple] [ ] <-- trouble: [optional] [multiple] [ ] admin-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] tech-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] nic-hdl: [mandatory] [single] [primary/look-up key] remarks: [optional] [multiple] [ ] notify: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-by: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] ref-nfy: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] <-- mnt-ref: [optional] [multiple] [ ] <-- changed: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] source: [mandatory] [single] [ ] For the consistency of the system one shoud add reference protection to the mntner too in that implementation. mntner: [mandatory] [single] [primary/look-up key] descr: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] admin-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] tech-c: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] upd-to: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-nfy: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] auth: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] remarks: [optional] [multiple] [ ] notify: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-by: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] referral-by: [mandatory] [single] [inverse key] ref-nfy: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] <-- mnt-ref: [optional] [multiple] [ ] <-- changed: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] source: [mandatory] [single] [ ] Implementing abuse-c that way would give a 1:1 mapping between irt and role and therefore making irt obsolete (and the existing objects auto-convertable). Query behaviour: -) Return abuse-c by default as well (or include default -c i.e. return abuse-c from the least specific inetnum containing the ip in question). -) Change the -c flag to use abuse-c instead of mnt-irt. I hope that makes some sense. lG uk -- Ulrich Kiermayr Zentraler Informatikdienst der Universitaet Wien Network - Security - ACOnet-CERT Universitaetsstrasse 7, 1010 Wien, AT eMail: ulrich.kiermayr(a)univie.ac.at Tel: (+43 1) 4277 / 14104 PGP Key-ID: 0xA8D764D8 Fax: (+43 1) 4277 / 9140

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draft agenda (V3) for DB-WG meeting, RIPE 48, Amsterdam, NL
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 04 May '04

04 May '04

Dear DB-WG community, this should be the final version (2) of the draft agenda for the DB-WG meeting at RIPE48 in Amsterdam, NL. Changes: - meeting schedule for 2005 - usability of RAToolSet, RPSLng checker compatibility Wilfried. ++++++++ [ slot Nr.1 ] A. Administrative Matters - scribe - list of participants - agenda - minutes - "remote participation" coordination (if needed) - meeting schedule for 2005 B. DB Operational Update (Shane K., RIPE NCC) [~20 min] C. ERX Phase 3 (Leo V., RIPE NCC) [~15 min] D. Value "ZZ" for country: attribute (Engin G., RIPE NCC) [~10 min] E. CRISP/Joint-Whois status [~30 min] . report by Andrew Newton, VeriSign . follow-up by RIPE NCC [ slot Nr.2 ] F. support for works of art (Nigel T., FLAG TC) [~10 min] . poetry | haiku | ??? G. irt: / abuse: [60+ min] . proposal by Niall O'R. & Randy B. . statistics by Marco H. H. RAToolSet & RPSLng (WW144) [~10 min] Y. Input from other WGs Z. AOB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4-MAY-2004 14:09:08 UTC

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draft agenda (V2) for DB-WG meeting, RIPE 48, Amsterdam, NL
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 30 Apr '04

30 Apr '04

Dear DB-WG community, below please find Version *2* of the draft agenda for the DB-WG meeting at RIPE48 in Amsterdam, NL. Changes: - the CRISP item was confirmed by Andrew Norton, as well as the follow-up by the RIPE NCC - proposal to better support works of art in the DataBase poetry or just haiku? text-only (IDN-style??) or multi-media? - a sub-item added in A. to find out if coordination is needed for "remote participation" and maybe the Wiki stuff. Looking forward to see many of you again in Amsterdam! Wilfried. ++++++++ [ slot Nr.1 ] A. Administrative Matters - scribe - list of participants - agenda - minutes - "remote participation" coordination (if needed) B. DB Operational Update (Shane K., RIPE NCC) [~20 min] C. ERX Phase 3 (Leo V., RIPE NCC) [~15 min] D. Value "ZZ" for country: attribute (Engin G., RIPE NCC) [~10 min] E. CRISP/Joint-Whois status [~30 min] . report by Andrew Newton, VeriSign . follow-up by RIPE NCC [ slot Nr.2 ] F. support for works of art (Nigel T., FLAG TC [~10 min] . poetry | haiku | ??? G. irt: / abuse: [60+ min] . proposal by Niall O'R. & Randy B. . statistics by Marco H. Y. Input from other WGs Z. AOB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30-APR-2004 09:40:06 UTC --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: [db-wg] Action item 47.2: Proposal for Adding Abuse Contact
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 26 Apr '04

26 Apr '04

>As a starting point, let's take (approximations to) MarcoH's RIPE-47 >statistics. > >Number of inet[6]num objects: > 10**6 >Number of inet[6]num objects with IRT: > 10**3 (not significant) This simple counting approach is potentially VERY misleading, as it is not the sheer _number_ of individual entries which should be counted, but the _size_ of the address blocks covered in this hierarchy. On top of that, there's the possibiltiy to use the hierarchy to e.g. provide a "1st-line" contact for an individual address block AND a fallback or upstream for the encompassing block. Marco, would it be reasonably easy for you to extract this additional piece of statistics data? Wilfried.

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Announcement Routing Registry Training Courses
by RIPE NCC Training 22 Apr '04

22 Apr '04

------- Dear Colleagues, [apologies for duplicate postings] As a service to its members the RIPE NCC offers the "Routing Registry Training Course". The main objective of the "Routing Registry Training Course" is to familiarise the LIRs with the features of the Routing Registry, while introducing the relevant tools and services of the RIPE NCC. The course also offers practical exercises. OVERVIEW OF TOPICS COVERED IN THE COURSE: - Routing Registry as a part of the RIPE Whois Database and the Internet Routing Registry (IRR) - Specifying routing policies using (RPSL) Routing Policy Specification Language and the RtConfig tool - IRRToolSet - Routing Information Service (RIS) - Routing Registry Consistency Check Project Please note that this is an advanced course. It will: - NOT teach the basics of routing - NOT teach the basics of RIPE Database operations, - NOT describe how to receive Internet resources from the RIPE NCC - NOT describe how to operate a Local Internet Registry (LIR) The target audience of the course are technical staff of LIRs: e.g. network operators, engineers etc. This course is not intended for administrative or management staff (e.g. Hostmasters) . It is assumed that all attendees will be familiar with Border Gateway Protocol routing and with the RIPE Database (i.e. creating/modifying objects). This course is based on interactive exercises in a local network set-up. Please bring your laptops equipped with the following: - A working Ethernet card, - Three meters of Ethernet cable, - A secure connection client, - A web browser. Please be prepared to share your laptop (or at least allow another attendee to "look over your shoulder") if necessary. The Routing Registry Training Course is conducted in the English language and is free of charge, since it is covered by the membership fee. More information about the Routing Registry Training Course can be found at: http://www.ripe.net/training/rr/ REGISTRATION: You can register for a Routing Registry Training Course at the follow ing URL: http://www.ripe.net/cgi-bin/trainingform.pl.cgi Or by completing the registration form at the end of this e-mail and replying to <training(a)ripe.net> . In order to register for a Routing Registry Training Course you must be an employee of an LIR and either: - be an LIR contact - be confirmed by an LIR contact LIR contacts are those employees of an LIR who are registered with RIPE NCC as authoritative contact persons. It is expected that most of those interested in the Routing Registry Training Course will not be an authoritative contact person for their LIR, and therefore will be, refused by the course registration "robot". In order to be admitted to the course, a confirmation e-mail must be sent to <training(a)ripe.net>. Please approach the LIR contacts from your organisation personally, since the identity of LIR contacts is confidential, and the RIPE NCC is unable to divulge contact persons for any given LIR. Kind Regards, Training Team RIPE NCC ************************************************************************ COURSE DATES AND VENUES ======================== Date: Thursday 24 June 2004 Time: 0900 - 1700 Location: Stockholm, Sweden AND: Date: Friday 9 July 2004 Time: 0900 - 1700 Location: London, United Kingdom AND: Date: Friday 6 August 2004 Time: 0900 - 1700 Location: Amsterdam,the Netherlands AND: Date: Tuesday 10 August 2004 Time: 0900 - 1700 Location: Tehran, Iran ********************************************************************* REGISTRATION FORM ================= %START PART 1 - Registration 1) Your name Enter First name, Last name in full e.g. John Doe Mary-Beth Walton # NAME [ ] 2) Your Registry ID (format: country-code.<name of registry>) # REG [ ] 3) Your e-mail address # EMAIL [ ] 4) Your NIC handle (optional) # NICHANDLE [ ] 5) The course you plan to attend (date and location) # COURSE [ ] %END

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draft agenda (V1) for DB-WG meeting, RIPE 48, Amsterdam, NL
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 21 Apr '04

21 Apr '04

Dear DB-WG community, below please find Version 1 of the draft agenda for the DB-WG meeting at RIPE48 in Amsterdam, NL. In order to refine this 1st draft, I'd like to ask - Andrew Newton to confirm - or cancel - the CRISP item (I was told about that indirectly by NCC staff), and tell us a bit about time-slot length and content, - Niall and Randy: who's going to present the abuse proposal, - every individual or group mentioned in the list of topics to please check the lengh of the timeslot allocated and/or reply _to me privately, pls._ with information missing or any change requests. Pls. let me know asap if I missed any of the topic proposals and/or requests. If so, it was not done on purpose!! Looking forward to see many of you again in Amsterdam! Wilfried. ++++++++ A. Administrative Matters - scribe - list of participants - agenda - minutes B. DB Operational Update (Shane K., RIPE NCC) [~20 min] C. ERX Phase 3 (Leo V., RIPE NCC) [~15 min] D. Value "ZZ" for country: attribute (Engin G., RIPE NCC) [~10 min] E. CRISP/Joint-Whois status [??? min] . report by Andrew Newton, VeriSign [t.b.c.] . follow-up by RIPE NCC [t.b.c.] F. irt: / abuse: [60+ min] . proposal by Niall O'R. & Randy B. . statistics by Marco H. Y. Input from other WGs Z. AOB -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21-APR-2004 12:56:30 UTC

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ORGANISATION objects in the RIPE Whois Database
by DB-News 19 Apr '04

19 Apr '04

Dear Colleagues, (apologies for duplicate messages) The RIPE NCC is pleased to announce that as of 17, April 2004, a new type of object, the ORGANISATION object, is available in the RIPE Whois Database. You can find more information about the ORGANISATION object at: http://www.ripe.net/db/organisation.html As part of the transition process, the RIPE NCC has: - created ORGANISATION objects for LIRs (around 4000 ORGANISATION objects) - updated LIR allocation objects to include "org:" attributes pointing to these new ORGANISATION objects (around 6500 INETNUM/INET6NUM objects) LIRs can update parts of their ORGANISATION objects through the ORGANISATION Object Editor available through the LIR Portal: https://lirportal.ripe.net/lirportal/index.html Please contact <ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net> for any questions. Best Regards, -- Engin Gunduz RIPE NCC Software Engineering Department

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