- db-wg - mailman.ripe.net

RE: [db-wg] Implementation of POEM object
by Titley, Nigel 12 May '05

12 May '05

Paul Wilson wrote: > Arife, > > i'm finding this discussion rather anglo-centric. was any > consideration given to a "language" descriptor in discussion of this > object. > > of course the official language of ripe ncc is english, but it's a bit > harsh to expect non-english speakers to contribute good verse in > other than their native language... > > :-) The poem object itself is language independent, although the naming of the poetry-form object is strongly anglo-centric. It was noted during the WG discussion that followed the original presentation that without multibyte character support in the RIPE database (and RPSL in general), the provision of a haiku type was something of an insult to Japanese literature. However, it was felt that the effort involved in making RPSL and the RIPE database fully multibyte compliant, solely to allow the storage of japanese language haikus, could be deferred to a later date. A subgroup of the Secret Cabal(TM), if such a thing were to exist, could of course, be set to work on this, if there were a means to contact them to give them the commission. -- Nigel Titley Peering Coordinator, FLAG Telecom +44 20 8564 5812 ********************************************************************** This e-mail message is confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and contains information which is or may be confidential, non-public or legally privileged. Any dissemination or distribution of this message other than to its intended recipient is strictly prohibited. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose the contents to any other person. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by email to postmaster(a)flagtelecom.com immediately and delete the original message and all copies from all locations in your computer systems. This e-mail has been swept by Mailsweeper TM for viruses. However, FLAG Telecom cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses. ********************************************************************** This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.mailcontrol.com

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RE: [db-wg] Implementation of POEM object
by Titley, Nigel 12 May '05

12 May '05

Arife Vural wrote: >>> poetic-form: FORM-LIMERICK >>> descr: Poem type for Limerick >>> admin-c: AMR68-RIPE >>> mnt-by: RIPE-DBM-MNT >>> changed: ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net 20050429 >>> source: RIPE >> >> Slight problem with this example. I beleive we agreed that the >> description of the poetic form should be in the form of the poetic >> form itself. I gave a number of examples: limerick, haiku, prose, >> and english sonnet in my original presentation. This example does >> not comply with the requirement. > > You mean like that, right? > > descr: FORM-LIMERICK > > I got the requirements from DB-WG mailling list thread. From there it > was not so clear. If there would not be any objections, I could > replace those entries as you proposed. > > Arife No, not quite that. The requirements (which came at the end of the thread) suggested that the description of a limerick (for example) should be in the form of a limerick. The description of a haiku should be in the form of a haiku etc. An example for limerick was poetic-form: VERSE-LIMERICK descr: The object consists of a verse descr: in a format approaching the terse descr: The rhymes, very strict descr: Must be carefully picked descr: and it's funny and often perverse admin-c: LIM1-RIPE tech-c: LIM1-RIPE mnt-by: RIPE-DBM-MNT changed: ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net 20040401 source: RIPE Note the hierachical naming convention for poetic-form objects, all verse type forms should start "VERSE". Remember that not all poetry is verse. So another example would be poetic-form: PROSE descr: Don't let the structure tie your tongue; descr: if you hate the masochism of verse, Descr: remember that you can feel free to use prose, descr: and feel free because you are. admin-c: LIM1-RIPE tech-c: LIM1-RIPE mnt-by: RIPE-DBM-MNT changed: ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net 20040401 source: RIPE The poetic form names are hierachical so for example the English sonnet form could be Poetic-form: VERSE-SONNET-ENGLISH descr: The English sonnet poem's perfect peak descr: Doth sooth the senses with its gracious line descr: Full fourteen lines, five doubles stressed we seek descr: The first octet a single concept fine descr: Must introduce in argument aright descr: And when is unconcealed its notion hid descr: A pause, a breath must make a junction slight descr: Before the latter part its thought must bid. descr: The sextet takes us further in this scheme descr: Its rhymes EFEFGG march on descr: Alike yet different in their simple theme descr: To those that went before and build upon descr: Them, rearing up the mused-on lambent dream descr: To climax in a final couplet bare descr: That ends this form of verse which flows so fair. admin-c: LIM1-RIPE tech-c: LIM1-RIPE mnt-by: RIPE-DBM-MNT changed: ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net 20040401 source: RIPE Again, see my presentation for a number of examples. -- Nigel Titley Peering Coordinator, FLAG Telecom +44 20 8564 5812 ********************************************************************** This e-mail message is confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and contains information which is or may be confidential, non-public or legally privileged. Any dissemination or distribution of this message other than to its intended recipient is strictly prohibited. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose the contents to any other person. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by email to postmaster(a)flagtelecom.com immediately and delete the original message and all copies from all locations in your computer systems. This e-mail has been swept by Mailsweeper TM for viruses. However, FLAG Telecom cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses. ********************************************************************** This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.mailcontrol.com

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abuse stuff implemented in the DB, and thanks
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 11 May '05

11 May '05

Dear WG Members, earlier today we had a very interesting presentation by Shane, summarizing the various changes in the DB machinery related to implementing the abuse-mailbox facilities. I'd like to take this opportunity to remind you about the availability of the presentation slides from the RIPE50 meeting pages on the web, AND to say "thank you" to everyone at the NCC involved in the implemenation. Looks like a job well done, and in time for review during this meeting! Wilfried.

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RE: [db-wg] Implementation of POEM object
by Titley, Nigel 11 May '05

11 May '05

Olaf M. Kolkman wrote: >> Note the hierarchical naming convention for poetic-form objects, all >> verse > > I have a few maintenance questions. > > Although my colleagues are technically competent, they have > not been hired for their literary skills(*). So although the RIPE DB > staff will technically maintain the poetic-form: we still need a > mechanism to ensure the quality of the "poetic-form" objects. Agreed and it was always noted that this was a highly skilled job. > Will RIPE NCC staff need to contact a secret cabal for quality > control? Alternatively, will we skip quality control and act on first > come first served (serious security considerations: culprits might > specify a Haiku in the form of a Dada poem)? Or should a poetic-form > first be discussed by the db-wg? I would suggest that quality control should be managed by a secret cabal as at present with the limerick object. Secret cabals have a long and illustrous history on the internet and have usually resulted in fast, effective decision making albeit at the slight expense of annoying and upsetting large numbers of people (since my email is always bounced by Randy's "no legal disclaimer" filters, I feel perfectly safe in making this remark). > > I'd settle for the first option, a secret cabal... I may just know an > institution that could perform this task. I'm sure that they will prove themselves adequate to the task, even though I have no idea who they might be, or even if they exist. > > The classification scheme may also need some work. How do we classify > the different forms? Would the Aphorism have its own class or is it a > subclass of PROSE? > > In absence of the review process. Hereby a new proposal > > poetic-form: PROSE-APHORISM > descr: A database entry to be remembered by > admin-c: OK65-RIPE > tech-c: OK65-RIPE > mnt-by: RIPE-DBM-MNT As far as the name is concerned this would be perfectly correct, although ending a sentence with a preposition is perhaps to be regarded as slightly suspect style. (One must, though, remember Winston Churchill's comments on the matter). poetic-form: PROSE-APHORISM descr: A database entry by which to be remembered admin-c: OK65-RIPE tech-c: OK65-RIPE mnt-by: RIPE-DBM-MNT Might be slightly better stylistically. > > and > > poetic-form: VERSE-HAIKU > descr: The haiku object > descr: only seven syllables > descr: in its density > admin-c: OK65-RIPE > tech-c: OK65-RIPE > mnt-by: RIPE-DBM-MNT This is correct in all respects. > -- Olaf > > (*) I am sure I lost credit with my colleagues with this remark but > these are matters of high public interest. Of course. Perhaps we should include an examination of literary skill when engaging RIPE NCC staff. -- Nigel Titley Peering Coordinator, FLAG Telecom +44 20 8564 5812 ********************************************************************** This e-mail message is confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and contains information which is or may be confidential, non-public or legally privileged. Any dissemination or distribution of this message other than to its intended recipient is strictly prohibited. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose the contents to any other person. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by email to postmaster(a)flagtelecom.com immediately and delete the original message and all copies from all locations in your computer systems. This e-mail has been swept by Mailsweeper TM for viruses. However, FLAG Telecom cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses. ********************************************************************** This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.mailcontrol.com

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RE: [db-wg] Implementation of POEM object
by Titley, Nigel 11 May '05

11 May '05

Niall O'Reilly wrote: > On 11 May 2005, at 11:43, Titley, Nigel wrote: > >> ending a sentence with a preposition is perhaps to be regarded as >> slightly suspect style. > > Not really. > > From the Oxford Dictionary of English, 2nd edition (ISBN > 0-19-8613474): > >> The superstition that a preposition should always precede the word >> it governs and should not end a sentence [...] is not based on a >> real appreciation of the structure of English [...]. I did say "perhaps". -- Nigel Titley Peering Coordinator, FLAG Telecom +44 20 8564 5812 ********************************************************************** This e-mail message is confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and contains information which is or may be confidential, non-public or legally privileged. Any dissemination or distribution of this message other than to its intended recipient is strictly prohibited. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose the contents to any other person. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by email to postmaster(a)flagtelecom.com immediately and delete the original message and all copies from all locations in your computer systems. This e-mail has been swept by Mailsweeper TM for viruses. However, FLAG Telecom cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses. ********************************************************************** This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.mailcontrol.com

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RE: [db-wg] Implementation of POEM object
by Titley, Nigel 11 May '05

11 May '05

Arife Vural wrote: >> No, not quite that. The requirements (which came at the end of the >> thread) suggested that the description of a limerick (for example) >> should be in the form of a limerick. The description of a haiku >> should be in the form of a haiku etc. An example for limerick was >> >> poetic-form: VERSE-LIMERICK >> descr: The object consists of a verse >> descr: in a format approaching the terse >> descr: The rhymes, very strict >> descr: Must be carefully picked >> descr: and it's funny and often perverse >> admin-c: LIM1-RIPE >> tech-c: LIM1-RIPE >> mnt-by: RIPE-DBM-MNT >> changed: ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net 20040401 >> source: RIPE > > Those desc lines are much nicer than mine :-) > > By any chance you have pointer for the presentation. Yes indeed http://www.ripe.net/ripe/meetings/ripe-48/presentations/ripe48-db-poem.pdf -- Nigel Titley Peering Coordinator, FLAG Telecom +44 20 8564 5812 ********************************************************************** This e-mail message is confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and contains information which is or may be confidential, non-public or legally privileged. Any dissemination or distribution of this message other than to its intended recipient is strictly prohibited. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose the contents to any other person. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by email to postmaster(a)flagtelecom.com immediately and delete the original message and all copies from all locations in your computer systems. This e-mail has been swept by Mailsweeper TM for viruses. However, FLAG Telecom cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses. ********************************************************************** This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.mailcontrol.com

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Abuse information: quick snapshot
by Shane Kerr 11 May '05

11 May '05

All, Just a quick update with counts of objects containing "abuse-mailbox:" PERSON objects: 108 of 1138186 0.0095% ROLE objects: 860 of 8662 9.9284% ORGANISATION objects: 19 of 19065 0.0997% IRT objects: 6 of 65 9.2308% MNTNER objects: 34 of 16354 0.2079% The ROLE objects are mostly because of the "trouble:" attribute conversion. The heavy use in the IRT objects is probably because people with IRT objects are especially clueful about the RIPE Database changes, and also concerned about making sure people get to the correct abuse contact. I expect to see ORGANISATION objects increase, especially after we fix the allocation editor on the LIR portal to allow allocations to have "abuse-mailbox:" entries (we expect to have this done today). -- Shane

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RE: [db-wg] Implementation of POEM object
by Titley, Nigel 10 May '05

10 May '05

wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > [Apologies for duplicates] > > Following discussions in the Database Working Group, we have made > changes to the whois server software. > > These are the proposed changes: > > - Add a new object POETIC-FORM that will contain the supported poem > types. > - Add a new object POEM that will hold the poem itself. > - Add a new attribute "form:" that shows the type of poem. > > There is more information about this below. > > You can find more details about the discussion at: > > http://www.ripe.net/ripe/maillists/archives/db-wg/2004/msg00246.html > > We expect to put a new whois server on line with new object support > on 2 May 2005 at 16:00 CET. > > - Add a new POETIC-FORM object: > > The POETIC-FORM object contains information about the poem type. > > This is an example of a LIMERICK object: > > poetic-form: FORM-LIMERICK > descr: Poem type for Limerick > admin-c: AMR68-RIPE > mnt-by: RIPE-DBM-MNT > changed: ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net 20050429 > source: RIPE Slight problem with this example. I beleive we agreed that the description of the poetic form should be in the form of the poetic form itself. I gave a number of examples: limerick, haiku, prose, and english sonnet in my original presentation. This example does not comply with the requirement. -- Nigel Titley Peering Coordinator, FLAG Telecom +44 20 8564 5812 ********************************************************************** This e-mail message is confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and contains information which is or may be confidential, non-public or legally privileged. Any dissemination or distribution of this message other than to its intended recipient is strictly prohibited. You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose the contents to any other person. If you have received this message in error, please notify us by email to postmaster(a)flagtelecom.com immediately and delete the original message and all copies from all locations in your computer systems. This e-mail has been swept by Mailsweeper TM for viruses. However, FLAG Telecom cannot accept liability for any damage which you may sustain as a result of software viruses. ********************************************************************** This message has been scanned for viruses by MailControl - www.mailcontrol.com

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RIPE50 DB-WG Draft Agenda V1
by Wilfried Woeber 04 May '05

04 May '05

Dear DB-WG folks, Chairs, Meeting! Here is the 1st draft of an agenda for the DB-WG later this week. Comments and additional topic proposals requested. Wilfried. ________________________________________________________________________ A. Administrative Matters - scribe - list of participants - agenda - minutes - "remote participation" coordination (if needed) B. DB Update (Shane K., RIPE NCC) [~15 min] C. Changes in the DB for "abuse" stuff (Shane K., RIPE NCC) [~15 min] Y. Input from other WGs - "whois2005" from Address Policy? Z. AOB

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Implementation of POEM object
by Arife Vural 04 May '05

04 May '05

Dear Colleagues, [Apologies for duplicates] Following discussions in the Database Working Group, we have made changes to the whois server software. These are the proposed changes: - Add a new object POETIC-FORM that will contain the supported poem types. - Add a new object POEM that will hold the poem itself. - Add a new attribute "form:" that shows the type of poem. There is more information about this below. You can find more details about the discussion at: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/maillists/archives/db-wg/2004/msg00246.html We expect to put a new whois server on line with new object support on 2 May 2005 at 16:00 CET. - Add a new POETIC-FORM object: The POETIC-FORM object contains information about the poem type. This is an example of a LIMERICK object: poetic-form: FORM-LIMERICK descr: Poem type for Limerick admin-c: AMR68-RIPE mnt-by: RIPE-DBM-MNT changed: ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net 20050429 source: RIPE These objects will be maintained by RIPE DBM. You can send new POETIC-FORM objects to <auto-dbm(a)ripe.net>. - Add a new POEM object: A POEM object is similar to the LIMERICK object. Unlike the LIMERICK object, it will have a "form:" attribute that contains information about the poem type. This is an example of a simple POEM object: poem: POEM-NT13-1 descr: RIPE24 dinner text: At a RIPE Meeting, held in Berlin, text: The meal was unusual, the din text: Of the two serenades text: Whose repertoire made us text: All smile and want to join in form: FORM-LIMERICK admin-c: LIM1-RIPE author: NT13 mnt-by: LIM-MNT changed: limerick-wg(a)ripe.net 19960529 source: RIPE Add a new "form:' attribute: The "form:" attribute indicates the type of poem. - Changes to the default whois query interface: There will be no changes to the whois query interface. - Data transition All existing LIMERICK objects will will be converted to POEM objects. LIMERICK objects will appear in the database for a while, but we will eventually delete them. Here is an example of a LIMERICK object: limerick: LIM-NT13-3 text: The document RIPE-104 text: Goes on longer than ever before text: If you want an address text: And your network's a mess text: Then Daniel will get very sore admin-c: LIM1-RIPE author: NT13 remarks: Great limerick, but the draft document RIPE-104++ remarks: is now called RIPE-136... mnt-by: LIM-MNT changed: limerick-wg(a)ripe.net 19960529 source: RIPE Here is how it will appear with new object types: poem: POEM-NT13-3 text: The document RIPE-104 text: Goes on longer than ever before text: If you want an address text: And your network's a mess text: Then Daniel will get very sore form: FORM-LIMERICK admin-c: LIM1-RIPE author: NT13 remarks: Great limerick, but the draft document RIPE-104++ remarks: is now called RIPE-136... mnt-by: LIM-MNT changed: limerick-wg(a)ripe.net 19960529 source: RIPE - Object templates Here is the template for the POEM object: poem: [mandatory] [single] [primary/look-up key] descr: [optional] [multiple] form: [mandatory] [single] [inverse key] text: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] admin-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] author: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] remarks: [optional] [multiple] [ ] notify: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-by: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] changed: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] source: [mandatory] [single] [ ] POETIC-FORM object template is: poetic-form: [mandatory] [single] [primary/look-up key] descr: [optional] [multiple] [ ] admin-c: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] remarks: [optional] [multiple] [ ] notify: [optional] [multiple] [inverse key] mnt-by: [mandatory] [multiple] [inverse key] changed: [mandatory] [multiple] [ ] source: [mandatory] [single] [ ] Regards, Arife Vural RIPE NCC, SED

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