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Draft agenda: Database-WG at RIPE 20
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 20 Jan '95

20 Jan '95

The following is the first attempt at a draft agenda for the DB-WG. Seems like there is no really "big" issue for this meeting and we even may end up spending less time in parallel sessions. Apologies if I missed something obvious, it's quite busy here at our end :-) Input very welcome. Wilfried. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Draft Agenda: Database-WG, RIPE 20, 25-27 January 1995 ------------------------------------------------------ 0. Administrative stuff . who's taking the minutes? . WG-agenda 1. Short review: new DB-SW in production use . any open issues . bug fixes and formal release . time-stamps . any loose ends? 2. RIPE-Handles . status . formal introduction? 3. External interfaces . DB-exchange . rwhois . distributed domain object queries (Piet Beertema proposal) 4. Review of objects and links . domain object (amend or obsolete, input from DNS WG) . person object (semantics) and back-links (aka inverse recursion) . extensions for the router object (input from Mbone WG?) 5. AOB -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilfried Woeber : e-mail: Woeber(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at Computer Center - ACOnet : Vienna University : Tel: +43 1 4065822 355 Universitaetsstrasse 7 : Fax: +43 1 4065822 170 A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : NIC: WW144 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: do we need a meeting of the DNS TF ?
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 18 Jan '95

18 Jan '95

Hallo Andreas! => Question is whether we want to overhaul the domain object, or just => approve the small changes discussed last week. If we just want the => small changes, I am sure we can do it in the db-wg (Wilfried?). If we => want other bigger changes, we'd probably need a dns-wg meeting. = =We probably should still do it - if possible - within the db-wg. =It's (just :-) another object and I think we should decide what's =it use and what's the future of each of its attributes. I think [ $ set /me /mode=piet.b # :-) ] I'm reluctant to drag this stuff (remaining in a state of being rare instead of well-done :-) into the DB-WG. Maybe I'm a bit too proud about the DB-folks, but I've got the impression recently that we managed to get various things and proposals discussed up to a useful point (by different means and methods) and then just put the finishing touch on top during the DB-WG meeting. Quite to the contrary, the DNS (-object stuff) is (and has been) tossed around for more than a year now, if I recall correctly. Listening to Piet's emontional announcement, I get the feeling that the DNS folks still have to make up their minds, one way or the other... If this indeed has happend, then a proposal for a changed object is welcome to be discussed withint the DB-WG. So, my proposal would be to actually convene a DNS group meeting (even with only this one agenda item) and to try to arrive at some kind of consensus or to completely dismiss this issue. Wilfried. PS: speaking as a plain USER and NOT speaking for the DB-WG, I'd rather have the DNS group dissolved than keeping it in the semi-paralysed state it is in these days :-( -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilfried Woeber : e-mail: Woeber(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at Computer Center - ACOnet : Vienna University : Tel: +43 1 4065822 355 Universitaetsstrasse 7 : Fax: +43 1 4065822 170 A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : NIC: WW144 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Domain object template
by Havard Eidnes 17 Jan '95

17 Jan '95

> > admin-c: The admin-c attribute contains the name or the NIC > > I suggest to make mandatory that the administrative contact > should reside on the site itself. Assume that people have outsourced > the 'technical stuff' of their network, then it is likely that the > technical contact is someone belonging to another company, and > it might be difficult to get in touch with the holder of the > domain itself because the address/phone number is different. This is actually a naming policy issue, and as such this decision may eventually rest with the administrator of each top-level domain. I do however agree that adhering to this practice is a very good idea indeed, and that we should strongly reocmmend it. > => the admin contact for domains is different from the admin > contact for networks. It is explicitely an administrative > person who can answer to questions about name property, > legal problems, etc... In fact I understand your problem > but I believe the change should be done in the network > template. That the network template is broken is no excuse for not doing it right in this document... But I'm sure I misunderstood what you are saying. > > nserver: The nserver attribute contains the list of > > nameservers for of this domain, primary first. The > > format is fully qualified domain name without > > trailing "." OR IP Address(es) of the nameserver. > > Only one server should be described per line. An > > example: > > > > nserver: iraun1.IRA.UKA.DE > > > > Status: optional, multiple lines allowed > > Can we please drop the possibility of allowing IP numbers here? Yes! I'm all for it. It has one disadvantage, though, in that required glue information which has to be inserted in the zone file doing the delegation currently has no place in the domain object. Personally I do not view this as a great loss, it should however be noted. > If one of the secondaries of your domain changes IP number, then > he has the nearly impossible task of finding all these outdated > references. Bind only allows hostnames here; I think it is a good > idea to restrict the database in the same way. Indeed. > Also, we might add 'the first nserver listed is the primary for the zone' > > => "primary first" is in the text. Hmm, if I'm not totally mistaken, the concept of primaries and secondaries is a BINDism, and the concepts are likely to vanish some time in the not too distant future. Thus, I'm a little reluctant to mandate this usage. > > dom-net: The dom-net attribute contains the list of IP net- > > Can someone please explain why it is useful to record this? > Seems that this info might get outdated quickly as it isn't > related to the domain _name_. > > => there is a loose binding between names and addresses. > This attribute can be used if someone'd like to describe it. > This attribute has been made optional then you use it only > if you like. This attribute is essentially unmaintainable and quite difficult to check for as well (think about unannounced networks with no hosts registered in the "externally" viewable DNS tree). I think it should go into the dustbin. - Havard

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Announcement
by Piet Beertema 17 Jan '95

17 Jan '95

I've been following the recent umpteenth (...) discussion on the domain object in the RIPE database. I haven't commented on it though, since frankly I couldn't care less anymore. As NL domain registrar I have had - and am having - increasing problems with the *lot* of extra work caused by trying to keep the RIPE database up-to-date as far as .NL (primary) subdomains are concerned. For one thing, the - perceived or real, that has never become clear in all the discussions on the domain object - need to maintain information that is completely irrelevant for maintaining a domain administration is a hassle. But it's far more a nuisance that the RIPE database has "person" objects that in itself are an absolute kludge, in that they are invisibly related to in any other sense completely unrelated things like network objects and domain objects. The mere presence of these objects in the RIPE database gives the impression that RIPE is trying to keep sort of a worldwide phone directory, but then a "gambling" one: whether or not one will find a person in it is pure luck: you'll find it if the person happens (or happened!) to be related to a network or a domain object, otherwise not. A random generator would do about as well... The person object, because of its linking to different other objects, is also a nuisance in another respect: it calls for the need of "handles", where there is no such need whatsoever if the NL domain administration would be maintained completely seperate from the [setup of the] RIPE database. >From the above it should be clear that, as NL domain registrar, I'm sick and tired of all the extra work caused by the "feed" given to the RIPE database. I want to strongly emphasize here that there in NO OBLIGATION whatsoever for any [top level] domain registrar to "feed" the RIPE database and/or to keep the administration of the domain in accordance with or modeled after the RIPE database. What I'm saying below is therefore an OFFICIAL STATEMENT, and NOT a call for discussion. Included in it is an invitation to the RIPE NCC - as maintainers of the RIPE database and of the related software - and to the DB-WG, for a change in the setup of the database and software. I probably won't be far off if I'm saying that I think that I'm not the only [top level] domain registrar having problems like the ones described. I'm willing to illustrate and discuss on the forthcoming RIPE meeting the sort of problems that the current setup of the RIPE database is posing, even though I've done the same on previous RIPE meetings (albeit in the DNS-WG then). But it should be very clear that this will *not* lead to revoking the statement below and the actions announced in it. The time of endless discussions is really over. I have to "spit in the hands and get to work", without the work being hampered by external factors and matters of taste (which for a large part dominate the whole discussion on objects in the RIPE database). Piet ********************************************************************** * The NL naming authority is planning to change the setup of the * * NL domain administration, to make it possible to keep up with * * the ever increasing number of domain registrations, without an * * unnecessary amount of work posed by "external factors". * * Such an "external factor" is the regular feed of the RIPE whois * * database with complete .NL (primary) subdomain info, calling for * * the need of maintaining in said administration information that * * is not relevant for the purpose of said administration, but only * * for the "external factors". * * Because of the above mentioned change in setup, the information * * in the NL domain administration will no longer be compatible with * * the "domain objects" and "person objects" in the RIPE database. * * Feeding the RIPE database with said information will therefore * * stop. Thereafter anyone is free to enter .NL subdomain objects * * (in fact that's the case already, since there is no protection * * against entering such objects - only against changes), but it * * should be very clear that from the viewpoint of the NL domain * * registration such entries are NOT authoritative. * * * * The NL naming authority recognises the value of a whois service. * * Therefore the NL naming authority will make sure that a whois * * service for .NL (primary) subdomains will be provided, through * * a whois server [to be] set up by the NL naming authority. * * The NL naming authority at the same time recognises that the * * RIPE whois server is known worldwide and that people have come * * to rely on it. Therefore an invitation is enclosed below to the * * RIPE NCC - and to the DB-WG - for a change in the database and * * its software to make it possible that the "RIPE whois service" * * is maintained, with automatic referral of the NL domain info * * on requests for such info. * * * * As soon as the mentioned change of setup has been completed and * * the mentioned whois server made operational, all .NL subdomain * * objects will be removed from the RIPE database, leaving only a * * "minimised" entry for the NL top level domain itself, which will * * then look as follows: * * *dn: nl * * *de: Top level domain for the Netherlands * * *rm: Information about .NL (primary) subdomains can be * * *rm: obtained with "whois -h <server_name>.nl <domain>.nl" * * * * As mentioned above, here is an invitation for a change in the * * RIPE database/software to automate the referral to NL domain * * info on queries directed to the RIPE whois server. Described in * * RIPE database format, after the change of the database/software, * * the "minimised" entry for the NL top level domain would be: * * *td: nl * * *de: Top level domain for the Netherlands * * *ws: <server_name>.nl * * The "ts" attribute would signal this entry as a top level domain * * to the db/whois software, causing forwarding of the query to the * * listed whois server for both the top level domain itself and for * * any <domain>.nl query. This shouldn't sound unfamiliar: it's an * * almost complete analogon of DNS, with the exception that RIPE is * * not "delegating" any top level domain. * * This change/addition has been proposed to the RIPE NCC a couple * * of months ago already, but has met with no reaction whatsoever. * * This announcement is therefore also meant to evoke a reaction * * from the RIPE NCC on this issue/proposal. * * It is clear that the above construction introduces a completely * * new element in the RIPE database/software: an entry for a top * * level domain (NL) implicitly standing for subdomains (*.NL) of * * it. So it might not be trivial to implement it. Still we think * * the RIPE NCC people will be able to handle it. * * * * * * Signed: NL Naming Authority <hostmaster(a)cwi.nl> * ********************************************************************** For your information, I'm adding here what the NL domain administration will look like after the changes, in "RIPE database notation": *dn: <domain name> *on: <organisation's name> *cc: <Chamber of Commerce registration number> *ad: <organisation's location address> *) *ac: <admin-contact> *ph: <phone of admin-c> **) *em: <e-mail of admin-c> *tc: <tech-contact> *ph: <phone of tech-c> **) *em: <e-mail of tech-c> *st: <status> ("MX-only" or "delegated") *dr: <date of registration> *dc: <date of last change> There can be more than one tech-c. *) P.O. Box is *not* (since 1-1-95) accepted here. **) Fax number might be added, but the value of it seems next to zero, given that some 80% of all registered NL subdomains don't list a fax number of contact persons. That's all. An entry with all the really *necessary* information for the domain administration, without irrelevant bells and whistles. Things like nameservers are not included in an entry: that's information that belongs in and is entered in DNS, i.e. the NL zone file. If people feel the need to find that information, then there are plenty of tools (dig, nslookup, host) to find it in DNS. The *st field in the administration gives an indication of what can/should be expected there. If people are too lazy to query DNS, they're not interested in the information. Period. One note: some of the fields given above will not be presented on queries to the NL whois server; *cc is one of them, probably also *dr and *dc. Other fields may be added at any time, as need arises. It should be clear that the setup eliminates any need for a "handle". Sure enough, this change will also have the effect that there will be no more automatic "notification feedback" from the RIPE database in case the data of a person change. But that happens so rarely that I can live with that. Besides, changes pertaining to an NL (primary) subdomain *must* be sent to the NL registrar, not to RIPE.

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Domain object template
by Marten Terpstra 11 Jan '95

11 Jan '95

Folks, Francis has made an update to the old domain object template. A draft version of his document is attached below. Please comment on this document, it should preferably be OK'ed at the coming RIPE meeting. This document is also available as: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/drafts/ripe-domain.{txt|ps} Cheers, -Marten RIPE Database Template for Domains Francis Dupont Document ID: ripe-049-bis Obsoletes: ripe-049 ABSTRACT This paper describes the format and syntax for the representation for Internet domains and associated contact persons in the RIPE database. 1. Introduction RIPE (Reseaux IP Europeens) coordinates TCP/IP networking for the research community in Europe. One of the activities of RIPE is to maintain a database of European IP networks, DNS domains and their contact persons along with various other kinds of network management infor- mation. This database content is public information for agreed Internet operational purposes. This supports NICs/NOCs all over Europe and beyond to perform their respective tasks. This document describes the format and syntax for Internet domain information and the closely related contact person information. Top, first and sensible level domains should be registered in the RIPE database. Each object in the database describes a single entity in the real world. This basic principle means that information about that entity should only be represented in the corresponding database object and not be repeated in other objects. Objects are described by attributes value pairs, one per line. Objects are separated by empty lines. An attribute that consists of multiple lines should have the attribute name repeated on consecutive lines. The information stored about domain UKA.DE consists of five objects, one domain object and four person objects and looks like this: ripe-049-bis.txt January, 1995 - 2 - domain: UKA.DE descr: Universitaet Karlsruhe descr: Informatik Rechnerabteilung IRA descr: Am Fasanengarten 5 descr: D-7500 Karlsruhe, FRG admin-c: Werner Zorn tech-c: Michael Rotert tech-c: Klaus Becker tech-c: Arnold Nipper nserver: iraun1.IRA.UKA.DE iramu1.IRA.UKA.DE nserver: unido.Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE sub-dom: ira dom-net: 129.13.0.0 192.54.104.0 changed: nipper(a)ira.uka.de 910208 source: RIPE person: Werner Zorn address: Universitaet Karlsruhe address: Informatikrechnerabteilung address: Am Fasanengarten 5 address: D-7500 Karlsruhe phone: +49 721 608 3981 fax-no: +49 721 699 284 e-mail: zorn(a)ira.uka.de changed: dfk(a)cwi.nl 11-Apr-90 source: RIPE person: Michael Rotert address: Universitaet Karlsruhe address: Informatikrechnerabteilung address: Am Fasanengarten 5 address: D-7500 Karlsruhe phone: +49 721 608 4221 fax-no: +49 721 699 284 e-mail: rotert(a)ira.uka.de nic-hdl: MR78 changed: dfk(a)cwi.nl 11-Apr-90 source: RIPE person: Klaus Becker address: Universitaet Karlsruhe address: Informatikrechnerabteilung address: Am Fasanengarten 5 address: D-7500 Karlsruhe phone: +49 721 608 3973 fax-no: +49 721 699 284 e-mail: becker(a)ira.uka.de changed: dfk(a)cwi.nl 11-Apr-90 source: RIPE person: Arnold Nipper address: Universitaet Karlsruhe address: Informatikrechnerabteilung ripe-049-bis.txt January, 1995 - 3 - address: Am Fasanengarten 5 address: D-7500 Karlsruhe phone: +49 721 608 4331 fax-no: +49 721 699 284 e-mail: nipper(a)ira.uka.de nic-hdl: AN45 changed: dfk(a)cwi.nl 11-Apr-90 source: RIPE 1.1. How to access the Database ? The database is public information for agreed Internet operational purposes. It can be accessed via a whois server on host whois.ripe.net (tcp port 43). The whole database is also available via anonymous ftp from ftp.ripe.net as file ripe.db in directory ripe/dbase. There is also a compressed version of the database available in that same directory, as well as a version of the database in which the different objects have been collected in different files. This "split" version of the database can be found in the subdirectory split. 1.2. How to submit information to the database ? Database updates should be sent via electronic mail to auto-dbm(a)ripe.net Be sure to supply a person object [1] for each contact per- son mentioned in the network objects. Of course you need not supply person objects if they are already present in the database and the information is still correct. Updates sent in should only contain the objects that need to be updated. The mail is automatically parsed by software that cannot intercept any messages that may be in the mail. If an update needs human intervention, or you have general questions on the procedures, please refer to ripe- dbm(a)ripe.net. Currently no special authorisation is needed to create, modify or delete objects that describe persons or domain name space. However extensive audit trails of all changes are being kept. 2. Format and syntax of the domain object In a short summary below, the attribute column indicates the name of the attribute inside the object, the second column indicates whether this attribute is optional or mandatory, and the third column indicates whether this attribute can ripe-049-bis.txt January, 1995 - 4 - appear more than once per object: attribute optional/mandatory multiple/single domain: mandatory single descr: mandatory multiple admin-c: mandatory multiple tech-c: mandatory multiple zone-c: optional multiple nserver: optional multiple sub-dom: optional multiple dom-net: optional multiple remarks: optional multiple notify: optional multiple mnt-by: optional multiple changed: mandatory multiple source: mandatory single Below each of these attributes and their format and syntax are described in more detail, and examples are given. domain: The domain attribute contains the fully qualified domain name without trailing ".". Note that DNS names are case insensitive. An example: domain: UKA.DE Status: mandatory, only one line allowed descr: The descr attribute consists of a short description of the organization and location where this domain is used. The description can have multiple lines. It need not contain the full postal address as this is required in the contact person objects (see further in this document). Free text is allowed. An example: descr: Universitaet Karlsruhe descr: Informatik Rechnerabteilung IRA Status: mandatory, multiple lines allowed admin-c: The admin-c attribute contains the name or the NIC handle of the administrative contact person. This is someone who will be contacted about administra- tive things such as domain registration etc. A NIC handle (if known) is preferred. Please do not use formal titles like 'Dr', 'Prof' or 'Sir'. Do not add full stops between names or initials. This value should be exactly the same as the attribute in the person object (see further below). More than one administrative contact person can be specified, by simply repeating the attribute. An ripe-049-bis.txt January, 1995 - 5 - example of both the NIC handle and normal name use: admin-c: Daniel Karrenberg or (preferred) admin-c: DK58 Status: mandatory, multiple lines allowed tech-c: The tech-c attribute contains the name or the NIC handle of the technical contact person. This is someone to be contacted for technical problems such as (mis)behavior of nameservers on the net etc. The format and syntax is the same as the admin-c attribute above. Status: mandatory, multiple lines allowed zone-c: The zone-c attribute contains the name of the zone contact for the domain. This is the person listed in the SOA record for the domain when the domain is a zone too (the same argument, not every domains are zones, applies to nserver attribute). The for- mat and syntax is the same as the admin-c attribute above. Status: optional, multiple lines allowed nserver: The nserver attribute contains the list of nameservers for of this domain, primary first. The format is fully qualified domain name without trailing "." OR IP Address(es) of the nameserver. Only one server should be described per line. An example: nserver: iraun1.IRA.UKA.DE Status: optional, multiple lines allowed sub-dom: The sub-dom attribute contains the list of sub- domains of the domain. The format is relative domain name to the domain (in order to keep the list compact). An example: sub-dom: ira Status: optional, multiple lines allowed dom-net: The dom-net attribute contains the list of IP net- works in this domain. The format is dotted quad including trailing 0s, extended formats defined in [1] for range of IP address space are allowed. An example: dom-net: 129.13.0.0 192.54.104.0 ripe-049-bis.txt January, 1995 - 6 - Status: optional, multiple lines allowed remarks: The remarks attribute contains any remarks about this domain that cannot be expressed in any of the other attributes. Although multiple lines are allowed, it should be only be used if it provides extra information to users of the database, and usage should be kept to a minimum. For format is like the description attribute free text. An exam- ple: remarks: MX record only Status: optional, multiple lines allowed notify: The notify attribute contains an email address to which notifications of changes to this object should be send. This can be useful if more than one person manage the same object. A more detailed description can be found in [2]. The format is one RFC822 electronic mail address per line. Although multiple lines are allowed, usage should be kept to a minimum. An example: notify: operations(a)ripe.net Status: optional, multiple lines allowed mnt-by: The maintainer attribute contains a registered maintainer name. This attribute is used for author- isation of database update requests. It is described in more detail in [2]. The format is a registered maintainer name. An example: mnt-by: RIPE-DBM Status: optional, multiple lines allowed changed: The changed field contains information on who last changed this object, and when this change was made. The format is an RFC 822 electronic mail address of the person who made the change, and the date of change in YYMMDD format. Multiple lines are allowed and shows the update history of an object. An exam- ple: changed: marten(a)ripe.net 940328 Status: mandatory, multiple lines allowed source: The source contains a source of information. For the RIPE database, the value should always be "RIPE". This field is used to combine and exchange information between various database sources around ripe-049-bis.txt January, 1995 - 7 - the world. Fixed value: source: RIPE Status: mandatory, only one line allowed, fixed value 3. References [1] Lord, A., Terpstra, M., "RIPE Database Template for Networks and Persons", ripe-119, October 1994. [2] Karrenberg, D., Terpstra, M., "Authorisation and Notif- ication of Changes in the RIPE Database", ripe-120, October 1994. ripe-049-bis.txt January, 1995

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Re: Domain object template
by Andreas.Knocke＠nic.de 11 Jan '95

11 Jan '95

Hello, a couple of additions to the discussion: > * Can we please drop the possibility of allowing IP numbers here? > * If one of the secondaries of your domain changes IP number, then > * he has the nearly impossible task of finding all these outdated > * references. Bind only allows hostnames here; I think it is a good > * idea to restrict the database in the same way. > * > * => IP numbers were allowed in the previous template then we need > * a general agreement before dropping this possibility... > > Perhaps we should try and completely overhaul the domain object? Why > would we go for small changes when we may need major changes? I somehow agree with the positions Geert Jan and Marten gave, a complete overhaul is probably needed and especially the nserver, IP-address idea was much discussed the last time at the RIPE meeting in Amsterdam (May 1994) with the idea that there is a much more useful place to store it - BIND ! On the other hand there is maybe one useful point to IP-numbers here, for a domain abc.zz with a set of nameservers ns1.abc.zz and ns2.abc.zz which have lost connectivity - a very bad situation, I agree - it might be helpful to find there IP addresses here as well, so I would propose to use it only for nserver within the specified domain. domain: ABC.zz descr: ABC company .... nserver: ns1.abc.zz 194.205.120.3 nserver: ns2.abc.zz 194.205.120.6 nserver: ns.domain.my nserver: foo.bar.com ... Giving the primary first is probably a good idea, but what about 'hidden' primaries. It is I think a common situation for organisation behind a dial-up connection administering there own nameserver (as given in the SOA) with only a set of secondaries published as NS-RR's. This cannot be documented - if one wants to - this way, but maybe with a useful remark: > * => there is a loose binding between names and addresses. > * This attribute can be used if someone'd like to describe it. > * This attribute has been made optional then you use it only > * if you like. > > Hmm, personally I'd bin the attribute..... I think that most of the attributes made optional instead of obsolete could be seen as a compromise we can agree upon as a transitional step until the complete overhaul - if not achieveable at this meeting ? > > admin-c: The admin-c attribute contains the name or the NIC > > I suggest to make mandatory that the administrative contact > should reside on the site itself. Assume that people have outsourced > the 'technical stuff' of their network, then it is likely that the > technical contact is someone belonging to another company, and > it might be difficult to get in touch with the holder of the > domain itself because the address/phone number is different. > > => the admin contact for domains is different from the admin > contact for networks. It is explicitely an administrative > person who can answer to questions about name property, > legal problems, etc... In fact I understand your problem > but I believe the change should be done in the network > template. I totally agree with Geert Jan here, the admin-c should be from the organisation using domain and should be changed if he no longer represents this organisation. I didn't follow the discussion but heard some rumors about mtv.com but this way might be a good start. You have to have the organisation's address and at least one phone number somewhere. Another but important aspect I think would be to find a better (more up to date) example, if it should convince and educate new registries. The current one contains a number of factional errors (I'll append the correct entry at the bottom of this posting) and some discrepancy to it's own explanation for instance the format of the change dates not in format YYMMDD. Finally with the handles and names as key values for person objects 1.2 could be reformulated. Before entering or updating person objects the database should be checked for existing entries which were created as references of other objects (inetnum,...). Care should be taken to keep them up to date, without generating duplicate entries one with and one without a handle. I did it a number of times myself when I started using handles so please don't take it as an accusation to anybody. On the other hand the advent of ripe handles gives us the proper way to create different objects for one person where necessary - e.g. if he has his own domain at home and supports a number of networks or anything else at work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- domain: uka.de descr: Universitaet Karlsruhe descr: Informatik Rechnerabteilung IRA descr: Am Fasanengarten 5, D-76128 Karlsruhe, Germany admin-c: WZ5-RIPE tech-c: KB49 tech-c: AN45 zone-c: KB49 nserver: iraun1.ira.uka.de nserver: iraux1.ira.uka.de nserver: ns.germany.eu.net nserver: ns.nic.de sub-dom: ira dom-net: 129.13.0.0 192.54.104.0 mnt-by: DE-DOM changed: nipper(a)ira.uka.de 910208 changed: knocke(a)nic.de 941121 source: RIPE person: Werner Zorn address: Universitaet Karlsruhe address: Informatikrechnerabteilung address: Am Fasanengarten 5 address: D-76128 Karlsruhe address: Germany phone: +49 721 608 3981 fax-no: +49 721 699 284 e-mail: zorn(a)IRA.UKA.DE nic-hdl: WZ5-RIPE mnt-by: DENIC-P changed: dfk(a)cwi.nl 900411 changed: rv(a)Informatik.Uni-Dortmund.DE 930704 changed: knocke(a)nic.de 941121 source: RIPE person: Klaus Becker address: Universitaet Karlsruhe address: Informatikrechnerabteilung address: Am Fasanengarten 5 address: D-76128 Karlsruhe address: Germany phone: +49 721 608 3973 fax-no: +49 721 699 284 e-mail: becker(a)ira.uka.de nic-hdl: KB49 mnt-by: DENIC-P changed: nipper(a)xlink.net 940406 changed: knocke(a)nic.de 941121 source: RIPE person: Arnold Nipper address: NTG Netzwerk und Telematic GmbH address: Geschaeftsbereich XLINK address: Vincenz-Priessnitz-Str. 3 address: D-76131 Karlsruhe address: Germany phone: +49 721 9652 0 fax-no: +49 721 9652 210 e-mail: nipper(a)xlink.net nic-hdl: AN45 changed: nipper(a)xlink.net 940616 source: RIPE

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Re: Domain object template
by Dave Morton 11 Jan '95

11 Jan '95

All very good points - I agree with Geert. Dave

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Re: "Dale S. Johnson": # Comment characters in templates
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 02 Dec '94

02 Dec '94

= * > which would be processed normally, ie the # lines ignored. They = * > would not end up in the database of course. = * = * > Any major showstoppers here? = * = * = * Well, no objections... this is really simple to implement, and may be = * very useful. = =It should be noted though that from that moment on "#" lines no longer =can be used to end an object. Two objects with only a "#" line between =them will be viewed as one, and will generate a syntax error. = =-Marten I agree that the proposed functionality to allow comments is useful. As to the aspect of separation of objects - well, I think with the invention of the password stuff and with the idea of grabbing the whois template output and writing scripts and the like, we should be asking whether just a blank line is the best way to separate objects... How about an "end: whatever string you like to put here" attribute to be equivalent to a blank line separating objects? Any hard feelings? Wilfried. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilfried Woeber : e-mail: Woeber(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at Computer Center - ACOnet : Vienna University : Tel: +43 1 4065822 355 Universitaetsstrasse 7 : Fax: +43 1 4065822 170 A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : NIC: WW144 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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"Dale S. Johnson": # Comment characters in templates
by Marten Terpstra 29 Nov '94

29 Nov '94

Folks, Dale Johnson from MERIT brings up the issue of allowing "#" style comments in objects between attributes. From an implementation point of view this is *very* simple. Any major objections? The database sw would simply ignore them. Note that they would have to be on a line by themselves, NOT inside an attribute. An example would be: person: Marten Terpstra address: RIPE Network Coordination Centre (NCC) address: PRIDE Project address: Kruislaan 409 address: NL-1098 SJ Amsterdam address: Netherlands # This is some comment phone: +31 20 592 5064 fax-no: +31 20 592 5090 e-mail: Marten.Terpstra(a)ripe.net nic-hdl: MT2 # And this as well notify: marten(a)ripe.net changed: marten(a)ripe.net 941128 source: RIPE which would be processed normally, ie the # lines ignored. They would not end up in the database of course. Any major showstoppers here? -Marten ------- Forwarded Message Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 14:49:50 -0500 From: "Dale S. Johnson" <dsj(a)merit.edu> To: Marten(a)ripe.net cc: Tony.Bates(a)ripe.net Subject: # Comment characters in templates Marten, What do you think of the idea of allowing #Comments in templates that are processed by auto-dbm? I bring this up privately because it seems like something that must have caused some discussion before if it isn't all ready implemented. The arguments are the same as for commenting programs: objects (especially aut-num objects) can be huge and complex now. Even if the comments aren't preserved in the storage and output formats, it would make lots of sense for people to keep comments in their original versions on their own machines, and not have to sed these out before they send them to auto-dbm. Is there all ready a history on this question? Or could it be done without discussion? Or if it needs discussion, what list would be appropriate? --Dale ------- End of Forwarded Message

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Re: "Dale S. Johnson": # Comment characters in templates
by Marten Terpstra 29 Nov '94

29 Nov '94

David.Kessens(a)ripe.net writes * Hi Marten, * * I see no problems but is a '#' also allowed after a number of spaces : * * # This is a comment Yup, leading spaces are always ignored. * Do you check the attributes for '#' when sent in ? * Does this generate a warning ? Well, if there is a "#" type comment inside an attribute (ie somewhere inside the value of an attribute) this will generate a syntax error in most cases. Ie something like: person: Marten Terpstra address: ....... phone: +31 20 592 5065 # Preferred phone: +31 20 592 5064 # Backup would spefically NOT be allowed and would generate syntax errors for that attribute. Unless of course the syntax for an attribute allows # chars (I don't think there are any though). -Marten

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