- db-wg - mailman.ripe.net

consensus on AS23456
by denis walker 13 Jul '21

13 Jul '21

Colleagues Whilst part of the discussion continues, there does seem to be a consensus on adding AS23456 to the reserved list maintained by the RIPE NCC. This would prevent anyone creating a ROUTE(6) object with AS23456 as the origin. The chairs also recognise the consensus to not delete or modify any set objects that reference AS23456. This is in line with past views not to purge set objects when an AUT-NUM object is deleted for any reason. The chairs therefore ask the RIPE NCC to add AS23456 to the RIPE Database reserved list. Regards William & denis co-chairs DB-WG

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Re: [db-wg] Further cleanup (was: RIPE NONAUTH route(6) objects
by Ronald F. Guilmette 13 Jul '21

13 Jul '21

Job Snijders <job(a)sobornost.net> wrote: >Should the database server software impose brittle restrictions >on that field? No, not worth the headache. I never suggested any changes to the data base software. I have merely suggested that *existing* route objects that make reference to bogon ASNs should be deleted from the data base, just as is already and currently being done in the case of those route objects that make reference to bogon IP space. The overwhelming majority of these "bogon-ASN" route objects are quite obviously leftovers that just never got cleaned up... some having languished unattended in the data base for as much as 20 years or more (and even some of the people who put those there originally are no doubt dead by now). We are in agreement in our (idealistic?) hops that someday RPKI will make all of these issues moot. By for today, there is no good reason not to remove the decades long accumulation of rust. It isn't doing anybody any good, and I fear it is an active enticement to mischief makers, of which the Internet has an over-supply these days. Regards, rfg

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RIPE NONAUTH route(6) objects using unregistered space cleanup - deployment *today*
by Edward Shryane 08 Jul '21

08 Jul '21

Dear colleagues, The implementation of the cleanup of RIPE NONAUTH route(6) objects using unregistered space is now complete, we plan to deploy to production *today*. This means that the cleanup job will run for the first time tonight. * Each night, all RIPE NONAUTH route(6) objects with an unregistered prefix ("available" or "reserved" in delegated stats) are selected. * If a prefix remains unregistered for 1 week, notify the maintainers of any related route(6) objects. * The maintainer can ask to make an exception, not to delete a route(6) object. * Otherwise, after a further 2 weeks, delete the route(6) objects. See the solution definition for more details: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2021-March/006876.html Note for now, the AS origin status is *not* considered. Please discuss further whether this should be included. If you have any feedback, please let us know. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC

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Whois Release 1.101
by Edward Shryane 01 Jul '21

01 Jul '21

Dear Working Group, RIPE Database release 1.101 has been deployed to the Release Candidate environment. We plan to deploy to production on Thursday 1st July. This release includes the following main changes: * Switch RIPE database to UTC timezone (all timestamps will be in UTC and all timestamps specify the 'Z' timezone) * Display an error on NRTM if client is blocked by ACL limit (#812) * Added rewrite rules to embedded Jetty (#801) * RDAP nameserver queries always return Not Implemented (#811) * Updated dependencies *Additionally* some operational changes will also be made to the production environment on 1st July: * Remove support for TLS versions 1.0 and 1.1 on HTTPS connections * The IETF has formally deprecated these TLS versions, now only versions 1.2 and 1.3 are recommended. * Remove insecure TLS cipher algorithms * TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_128_CBC_SHA * TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_CAMELLIA_256_CBC_SHA * TLS_DHE_RSA_WITH_SEED_CBC_SHA * TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA * TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA * Remove HTTP redirects for whois.ripe.net and www.db.ripe.net * HTTP requests to these hosts will no longer redirect to https://apps.db.ripe.net but will return 400 Bad Request. * Remove HTTP redirects for the legacy Whois REST API * The legacy Whois REST API was retired in 2015, a temporary redirect to https://rest.db.ripe.net will be removed. * HTTP requests to the legacy API at http://apps.db.ripe.net/whois/lookup/ripe will return 400 Bad Request. Please check your Whois client in case you are affected by these changes. The release notes are on the website: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/db/release-notes/ripe-database-rel… More information on the Release Candidate environment can be found on our website: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/db/release-notes/rc-release-candid… Please let us know if you find any issues with this release in the RC environment. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC

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Removie ALL bogus route objects from BOTH data bases
by Ronald F. Guilmette 21 Jun '21

21 Jun '21

I guess I'll try this again, since I don't recall seeing either any ascent nor any pushback the last time I tried to raise this point here. Al long as those bogus route objects that refer to bogon IP address space are being removed from the data, why not also remove all of the equally bogus route objects that refer to bogon AS numbers? I hope that I'm not actually the only one who sees the wisdom in cleaning up the whole mess that currently exists in the RIPE data bases. There are, at present, on the order of about 80 or so bogus route objects in the "regular" data base that refer to bogon AS numbers, and there are, give or take, about 1,500 of such bogus route objects currently within the (separate) RIPE-NONAUTH data base. Is anyone passionately in favor of keeping all of this useless and potentially fraudlent or misleading garbage in the data base? If not, then why not clear it all out? I mean seriously, the RIRs data bases are *supposed* to be the definitive guides to who has what and who may use what. And yet RIPE is, in effect, tacitly -appproving- of the use of bogon AS numbers. So I need to ask: Why? Regards, rfg

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Removal of bogon route objects
by Ronald F. Guilmette 15 Jun '21

15 Jun '21

Friends, As previously discussed, the decision was made awhile back to remove from the data base all RIPE-NONAUTH route objects which refer to currently unallocated IP space: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2021-May/006952.html In recent days I stumbled upon one such object that was still present in the data base. Upon seeing that object, I necessarily assumed that it was most likely not a "one off", and that it probably had siblings. In the spirit of trying to help out, and after a fair bit of fooling around on my part, I managed to concoct a rather simple method for finding all such bogon route objects that remain in the data base, and I wrote a small Perl script to do that exact thing. A copy of the script may be obtained here, for anyone who may be interested: https://pastebin.com/raw/LsvZ05tX Notes: *) The script assumes the presence of two external programs and their presence on the user's current $PATH, i.e. the widely used wget progarm, and also John Levine's version of a thing called grepcidr, sources for which may be obtained here: https://github.com/jrlevine/grepcidr3 *) The initial line of the script may have to be adjusted depending on the location, in the filesystem, of your local Perl interpreter. *) The script computes its results based upon the following two input data files, both of which are automagically fetched by the script using wget: https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/delegated-stats/nro-extended-stats ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/dbase/ripe-nonauth.db.gz (It is my understanding that each of these is updated on a daily basis.) *) The script DOES NOT verify that the entirety of any given RIPE-NONAUTH route object in fact refers to bogon space. Rather the script only checks to see whether or not the first IPv4 address of each current RIPE-NONAUTH route object does or does not refer to current bogon space. If it does, then the entire IPv4 CIDR of the route object is printed to stdout. *) Assuming that the script is installed as "ripebogonroutes" and in one's path, it may be invoked simply as: ripebogonroutes > bogon-route-cidrs *) At present there are 55,964 RIPE-NONAUTH objects in the data base. Of these, the first address of 857 of them refers to current bogon space. It is my fervent hope that the corresponding RIPE-NONAUTH route objects will be removed from the data base as soon as reasonably practical. Regards, rfg

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RIPE-NONAUTH route object anomalies
by Ronald F. Guilmette 14 Jun '21

14 Jun '21

It appears that, by and large, the route objects currently present within the ripe-nonauth.db.gz file refer either to bogons (which I've already provided a list of) or else they refer to out-of-region IP address blocks. The latter group seems at least explainable. The former group I am hoping will disappear from the data base soon. Checking now however I find there are a very small number of anomalous route objects within the latest edition of the ripe-nonauth.db.gz file, i.e. ones that refer to in-region IP blocks: 192.124.252.0/22 192.70.0.0/17 192.76.32.0/21 192.108.160.0/20 I'm not sure how these should be made to go away, but I wish they would. They offend my personal sense of fastidiousness, and I don't like unexplainable mysteries. Note that the RIPE-NONAUTH route object 192.76.32.0/21 appears to have some counterpart route objects for sub-blocks of that /21 and these sub-blocks route objects are *not* marked as RIPE-NONAUTH, suggesting that there is no compelling reason for the 192.76.32.0/21 route object to be marked as RIPE-NONAUTH. The same sort of syndrome appears to apply also in the case of the 192.124.252.0/22 RIPE-NONAUTH route object, i.e. in this case also there appear to be valid non-RIPE-NONAUTH route objects in the data base for sub-blocks of 192.124.252.0/22, which begs the question: Why is the 192.124.252.0/22 markes as RIPE-NONAUTH? Regards, rfg

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Issue creating new AS-SET
by Denis Fondras 09 Jun '21

09 Jun '21

Hi all, I am trying to add a new AS-SET but I get an error : as-set: Syntax error in AS201376:AS-MEMBERS:DIRECT Here is the object I try to create : AS-SET: AS201376:AS-MEMBERS:DIRECT members: AS60983 TECH-C: DF5400-RIPE ADMIN-C: DF5400-RIPE MNT-BY: AUVERNIX-MNT MNT-BY: DF39378-MNT SOURCE: RIPE AS201376:AS-MEMBERS already exists in the database. I cannot see what I do wrong here. Can anybody help ? Also I tried to do some tests on the test DB but I get a 404 error when clicking 'submit'. I don't know if it is me or a bug. Thank you in advance. -- Denis Fondras / Liopen

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NWI-4 - role of status: field in multivalued status context - reprise
by Carsten Schiefner 08 Jun '21

08 Jun '21

Dear all - after a quick chat with Dennis on this, he encouraged me to toss this into the seemingly stalled, but not yet dead debate: Right now, only the "inet[6]num:" attribute is the primary key to, of or for inet[6]num objects. I wonder if it would be possible to make the tuple ("inet[6]num:","status:") the primary key instead: that should solve the challenge to have an assignment that shall have the size of an allocation. In case this has been exhaustedly discussed here already, please excuse my ignorance - I then obviously have failed to spot the respective contribution in the archives. All the best, -C.

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Re: [db-wg] "status:" attribute values in the RIPE database
by Edward Shryane 07 Jun '21

07 Jun '21

Hi Carsten, > On 7 Jun 2021, at 12:57, Carsten Schiefner <carsten(a)schiefner.de> wrote: > > Ed & all - > > makes sense to me, too. > > However: Instead of forcing this on the creator/updater of an object - > how about the NCC to be as liberal as possible (John Postel's law, the > robustness principle) and to accept any case combination, e.g. "aSSigNED > pi", but very conservatively keep the attribute sored in the DB in > uppercase only? > I agree, apologies I wasn't clear, by force the "status:" attribute value to uppercase, I mean that the value should be automatically changed to all-uppercase, and we should still accept the value in any case. Also, we should perform a cleanup on currently inconsistent values (affecting less than 1% of total inetnum and inet6num objects). Regards Ed > ATB, > > -C. >

2 1

Restricting WHOIS searches to type: netname
by Ronald F. Guilmette 29 May '21

29 May '21

One of the helpful options provided by the RIPE WHOIS server is the --types option which provides a list of what specific object types a given set of query results may be restricted to. That list is as follows: inetnum inet6num as-block aut-num as-set route route6 route-set inet-rtr filter-set peering-set rtr-set domain poetic-form poem mntner irt key-cert organisation role person Can anyone explain to me why "netname" is not on the above list? I would like to be able to query the data base for "ABC" but restrict the query so that I only get back the records for the dozen or so IP blocks whose registrants have (unwisely?) elected to label their networks as "ABC", while NOT also getting back all 16 or so of the organisation objects whose org-name: field contains the substring "ABC", much less the numerous and additional person and role records whose person: and role: fields also and likewise contain the substring "ABC". If I can selectively query just for poems, is there some reason why netnames deserve less respect? And as long as we are on the subject, may I safely infer from the presence, in the data base, of a dozen different networks named "ABC" that no attempt has ever been made to insure uniqueness of netnames within the data base? Are netnames even restricted, as they seem to be, to having a form which is rather strikingly reminicent of actual unique data base handles, i.e. consisting of only alphanumerics and hyphens? Regards, rfg P.S. I do not mean to pick on RIPE specifically here. A quick check reveals that whois.apnic.net and whois.afrinic.net also fail to support selective querying for just netnames... although in those two cases selective quering for poems is also not an option... a sad fact that has left me rather entirely bereft, as I'm sure you can all imagine.

4 4

created: field value
by Ronald F. Guilmette 29 May '21

29 May '21

My apologies to all. I don't intend to be a complainer. I'm just trying to understand fully what's going on in the data base. I must say however that I am getting the impression that the value in the created: field for some (many?) inetnum objects may not be entirely reliable, or even entirely consistant with other available historical data. Example: inetnum: 138.201.0.0 - 138.201.255.255 netname: HETZNER-RZ-BLK-ERX4 descr: Server Block country: DE org: ORG-HOA1-RIPE admin-c: HOAC1-RIPE tech-c: HOAC1-RIPE status: LEGACY mnt-by: HOS-GUN mnt-lower: HOS-GUN mnt-routes: HOS-GUN mnt-domains: HOS-GUN created: 1970-01-01T00:00:00Z last-modified: 2019-12-04T13:10:40Z source: RIPE Given that 1970-01-01T00:00:00Z is rather well known to be the beginning of UNIX time (i.e. time: 0) I could not help but be a bit suspicious of the value in the created: field of the record shown above. A quick look at version #1 of the data base object for the 138.201.0.0/16 block suggests that a rather more appropriate value might have been something more like 2003-12-11T17:11:00Z ======================================================================== % Version 1 of object "138.201.0.0 - 138.201.255.255" % This version was a UPDATE operation on 2003-12-11 17:11 inetnum: 138.201.0.0 - 138.201.255.255 remarks: remarks: This inetnum has been transfered as part of the ERX. remarks: It was present in both the ARIN and RIPE databases, so remarks: the information from both databases has been merged. remarks: If you are the mntner of this object, please update it remarks: to reflect the correct information. remarks: remarks: Please see the information for this process: remarks: http://www.ripe.net/db/erx/erx-ip/network-138.html remarks: remarks: **** INFORMATION FROM ARIN OBJECT **** remarks: netname: NETCS-CUST4 descr: netCS Informationstechnik GmbH descr: Feuerbachstrasse 47/49 descr: D-1000 Berlin 41 remarks: country: DE remarks: changed: hostmaster(a)arin.net 19900523 remarks: changed: hostmaster(a)arin.net 20010220 remarks: **** INFORMATION FROM RIPE OBJECT **** netname: KIEZ-NET1 descr: Kiez-Net WAN country: DE rev-srv: DNS-A.Kiez.Net rev-srv: DNS-B.Kiez.Net status: ASSIGNED PI mnt-by: KIEZ-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered Am I the only one who thinks so? It is certainly my hope that the value in the created: field should accurately reflect the date & time when any given object was in fact created within the RIPE WHOIS data base. Is there any compelling reason why this should ever not be the case? Regards, rfg

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BOGON => 103.86.68.0/22
by Ronald F. Guilmette 28 May '21

28 May '21

My apologies to all. My interests and attention are getting pulled in so many different directions these days that I tend to forget the answers to questions that I seem to vaguely remember having already asked. So, at the risk of repeating myself, what's the current policy on stale route objects in the data base that refer to current bogon address space? I'm specifically interested in 103.86.68.0/22 at the moment. route: 103.86.68.0/22 origin: AS131477 mnt-by: HUAJUAN-MJJ-MNT created: 2018-02-24T19:00:10Z last-modified: 2018-09-04T19:09:05Z source: RIPE-NONAUTH

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status: LEGACY -- Stranger and stranger
by Ronald F. Guilmette 28 May '21

28 May '21

Regarding one of the "LEGACY" blocks mentioned in my prior email, on a whim I decided to take a look at the full history of the block. That full history is reproduced below. This history causes me to have even more questions than I have already asked. I'm still totally befuddled by the fact that this block apparently is and always was marked as "status: LEGACY", even though it's original allocation date still seems to be 2015-09-23, which seems relatively recent to me. Just as perplexing is the apparent direct transfer of the block from a department of the UK government to a private for-profit Internet company. Has the UK government been so hard up for cash in recent years that it has taken to selling off any spare /16 blocks that it happens to have lying around? If so, who should I talk to about placing a bid for the next one they decide to unload? ======================================================================== % Version 1 of object "51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255" % This version was a UPDATE operation on 2015-09-23 15:10 inetnum: 51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255 netname: UK-DWP descr: UK Government Department for Work and Pensions country: GB status: LEGACY mnt-by: DWP-MNT created: 2015-09-23T13:10:05Z last-modified: 2015-09-23T13:10:05Z source: RIPE ======================================================================== % Version 2 of object "51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255" % This version was a UPDATE operation on 2015-09-23 15:15 inetnum: 51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255 netname: UK-DWP descr: UK Government Department for Work and Pensions country: GB org: ORG-DWP1-RIPE status: LEGACY mnt-by: DWP-MNT created: 2015-09-23T13:10:05Z last-modified: 2015-09-23T13:15:16Z source: RIPE ======================================================================== % Version 3 of object "51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255" % This version was a UPDATE operation on 2015-11-05 17:51 inetnum: 51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255 netname: UK-ZEN descr: Zen Internet Limited country: GB org: ORG-DWP1-RIPE status: LEGACY mnt-by: ZEN-MNT created: 2015-09-23T13:10:05Z last-modified: 2015-11-05T16:51:50Z source: RIPE ======================================================================== % Version 4 of object "51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255" % This version was a UPDATE operation on 2015-11-05 18:43 inetnum: 51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255 netname: UK-ZEN descr: Zen Internet Limited country: GB org: ORG-ZIL1-RIPE status: LEGACY mnt-by: ZEN-MNT created: 2015-09-23T13:10:05Z last-modified: 2015-11-05T17:43:45Z source: RIPE ======================================================================== % Version 5 of object "51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255" % This version was a UPDATE operation on 2019-07-04 12:43 inetnum: 51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255 netname: UK-ZEN descr: Zen Internet Limited country: GB org: ORG-ZIL1-RIPE status: LEGACY mnt-by: ZEN-MNT mnt-by: ZEN-NOC-MNT created: 2015-09-23T13:10:05Z last-modified: 2019-07-04T10:43:36Z source: RIPE ======================================================================== % Version 6 (current version) of object "51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255" % This version was a UPDATE operation on 2020-02-03 12:55 inetnum: 51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255 netname: UK-ZEN descr: Zen Internet Limited country: GB org: ORG-ZIL1-RIPE status: LEGACY mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-LEGACY-MNT mnt-by: ZEN-MNT mnt-by: ZEN-NOC-MNT created: 2015-09-23T13:10:05Z last-modified: 2020-02-03T11:55:22Z source: RIPE

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Questions about status: LEGACY
by Ronald F. Guilmette 28 May '21

28 May '21

Could someone be so kind as to enlighten me about the intended semantics of "status: LEGACY"? I'm back to trying to do parsing of the data base, en mass, and I've just now noticed that the annotation "status: LEGACY" within a given inetnum record may not mean what I thought it meant. (And by the way, there seem to be several tens of thousands of inetnum records in the data base, at present, which are all marked as "status: LEGACY".) Here are just a couple of randomly chosen samples that are confusing me: inetnum: 51.155.0.0 - 51.155.255.255 netname: UK-ZEN descr: Zen Internet Limited country: GB org: ORG-ZIL1-RIPE admin-c: RT1337-RIPE tech-c: ZIRA1-RIPE status: LEGACY mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-LEGACY-MNT mnt-by: ZEN-MNT mnt-by: ZEN-NOC-MNT created: 2015-09-23T13:10:05Z last-modified: 2020-02-03T11:55:22Z source: RIPE inetnum: 51.155.91.64 - 51.155.91.71 netname: ZEN20210525-NOC-NYCOMM-LIMITED descr: Nycomm Limited descr: leased-line country: GB admin-c: RT1337-RIPE tech-c: ZIRA1-RIPE status: LEGACY mnt-by: ZEN-NOC-MNT created: 2021-05-25T16:49:09Z last-modified: 2021-05-25T16:49:09Z source: RIPE In what sense is the first inetnum record above denoting a "LEGACY" block? The block appears to have been first assigned by RIPE to ORG-ZIL1-RIPE on 2015-09-23. Aren't LEGACY blocks just the ones left-over from the very old days? I have the same questions also for the second inetnum record shown above, which is a sub-assignment / sub-allocation of the first one. Well, here's another one. This also seems rather un-LEGACY, based on the apparent creation date. inetnum: 162.55.0.0 - 162.55.255.255 netname: DE-HETZNER-19920803 country: DE org: ORG-HOA1-RIPE admin-c: HOAC1-RIPE tech-c: HOAC1-RIPE status: LEGACY mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-LEGACY-MNT mnt-by: HOS-GUN mnt-lower: HOS-GUN mnt-domains: HOS-GUN mnt-routes: HOS-GUN created: 2019-11-18T15:01:35Z last-modified: 2019-11-18T15:01:35Z source: RIPE I'm sure that there is a perfectly rational explanation for all of this. I would greatly appreciate it if someone would guide me to it. Whatever is going on here, I obviously didn't get (or didn't read) the memo. Regards, rfg

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DBTF final draft postponed
by denis walker 20 May '21

20 May '21

Colleagues Following the recent Bof the DBTF has postponed publication of it's final draft requirements document. You can see details here https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-list/2021-May/002231.html cheers denis co-chair DB-WG

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What is the RIPE Database in 2021?
by denis walker 18 May '21

18 May '21

Colleagues There was an interesting presentation in the Address Policy session at RIPE 82 this morning by Remco. He raised a number of issues about what exactly is the RIPE Database, what does it do and who does it do it for? The history of the RIPE Database is quite well known (within the industry). It developed as a means to assist resource holders and network operators with 'Internet operational issues'. It also helped the RIPE NCC, as a registry, to allocate Internet resources fairly and uniquely as and when needed. It's development and operation was and is funded by the RIPE NCC membership. But what is the RIPE Database now, in 2021? What will it be in the coming years, decades? Who will use it, who will pay for it, who gets to decide what is in it? The RIPE Database has evolved over the last 20+ years. It is much more now than just a tool for 'Internet operational issues'. It has a more diverse collection of data consumers. But is it still locked in the hands of a very small set of vocal users whose mindset is also locked in the historical context of the database? Too often in discussions about policies and database features we hear the phrases "It's not the purpose of the RIPE Database to do 'abc'" and "It's not the function of the RIPE NCC to do 'xyz'". Are the people saying this RIPE NCC members who are paying for the database? Is that an issue? I don't know. Maybe it is time to stop thinking of the RIPE Database only in terms of 'Internet operational issues'. Whether people have accepted it yet or not, the RIPE Database is a Public Registry of Internet resources. It serves a similar important function in society as a Land Registry, Company Registry, Vehicle Registry, but on a pan national scale. It's usage goes beyond the historical resource holders, engineers and network operators. Along with the function of managing the resources is the importance to the wider public of knowing who is the [owner, user, registrant, operator] (pick your own word) of an Internet resource. To fulfill its role as a Public Registry perhaps it needs more data not less data. But that has to be the right data. The Database Task Force (DBTF) is considering a recommendation to make IPv4 assignments in the RIPE Database optional. That could lead to the complete removal of 94% of the IPv4 resource detail in the database. Rather than considering making IPv4 assignments optional, maybe what we should be considering is making more IPv6 assignment detail mandatory. Do we need to know who sits behind any of those aggregated blocks? Do we need to start filling in this detail before we go too far down the IPv6 road making the backlog difficult to fill in? Who should make decisions in the future about the purpose, use, access, content of the RIPE Database? Should it be tied to (historical) address policy? Or should it be based more on a wider scope as a Public Registry for the benefit of society? Should the RIPE NCC members, who are paying for the database, have any priority in defining it's current and future use? If that becomes an issue should the RIPE Database be funded independently of the RIPE NCC membership? These are questions I had expected the DBTF to consider. Unfortunately I feel the scope of their work has been too narrowly focussed on current database operational functionality and historical purposes rather than current and future usage. The first heading in the draft requirements document is "What is the RIPE Database?". But it only talks about operational issues. The DBTF clearly stated it is only reviewing the database functionality. I'm not sure if you can define the requirements of the functionality without first considering the full scope of the purpose and usage and the context of the database in the industry and society. To be fair to the DBTF, their charter also focuses on database functionality. Maybe there has been a misunderstanding of the full meaning of 'functionality': noun (Oxford English Dictionary) 1.the quality of being suited to serve a purpose well; practicality. "I like the feel and functionality of this bakeware" 2.the range of operations that can be run on a computer or other electronic system. "new software with additional functionality" The draft document seems to focus on the second definition based on a historical view of the first definition. Also considering: The Business Requirement Document (BRD) describes the high-level business needs whereas the Functional Requirement Document (FRD) outlines the functions required to fulfill the business need. BRD answers the question what the business wants to do whereas the FRD gives an answer to how should it be done. The draft document from the DBTF is more like the FRD. It outlines the functions required to fulfill the historical operational needs. We are still missing the BRD for the RIPE Database in 2021+. We don't have a clear understanding of what we want the RIPE Database to do and who for. Thanks Remco for a very timely presentation. (Although you did still keep referring to 'operational issues' which keeps the discussion locked into a historical context.) I look forward to further discussion on this topic... cheers denis co-chair DB-WG

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RIPE Database Task Force minutes
by denis walker 13 May '21

13 May '21

Colleagues The Task Force has published minutes of it's most recent meeting on their mailing list. There are also some interesting comments and observations from Daniel. You can find them here https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/ripe-db-requirements-tf/2021-May/da… cheers denis co-chair DB-WG

1 0

Route objects for space administered by other RIRs
by Ronald F. Guilmette 13 May '21

13 May '21

Can anyone please explain to me, preferably using small words that I can understand, why route objects such as the following still exist in the data base at the present time? route: 62.61.192.0/18 descr: SRR origin: AS49902 mnt-by: CEGETEL_LA_REUNION created: 2014-09-30T15:01:51Z last-modified: 2018-09-04T18:00:38Z source: RIPE-NONAUTH (Please note that the whole of 62.61.192.0/18 currently appears to be under the administration of AFRINIC.) I understand that pre-existing route objects within the RIPE data base that relate to IP space which is under the administration of other (non-RIPE) RIRs was set to "RIPE-NONAUTH" awhile back, which is certainly a Good Thing, but I wonder if there is a date certain by which even these route objects will be sunsetted and removed from the RIPE db. Regards, rfg

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country field in ORG objects
by Ronald F. Guilmette 13 May '21

13 May '21

It is my understanding that it was decided that country: fields would be added into any & all org objects that did not already contain them. I would just like to inquire about the current status and expected timeline for this project. Is there an expected completion date? Is RIPE NCC doing all of the work? Or is RIPE NCC instead just trying to cajole & browbeat the organizations themselves into adding the country fields themselves? (If the latter, than I have every faith & confidence that the project will be completed no later than Spring of 2173.) Because I have a tool that tries to summarize the name & country of each org that has IP allocations, and because many org records in the RIPE data base still do not have the country information, I find that I still am needing to implement exceptions/workarounds in my code. In any/most/all of these cases, inferring the proper country based on the snail-mail address of the org is what we here on this side of the pond would call a "no brainer". Here are a few examples of that: 'ORG-AA193-RIPE' => [ 'FR', 'GIE AUCHAN INTERNATIONAL TECHNOLOGY' ], 'ORG-LUC7-RIPE' => [ 'DE', 'ZF Active Safety GmbH' ], 'ORG-NNS5-RIPE' => [ 'CH', 'Nestle Nespresso S.A.' ], 'ORG-RSS4-RIPE' => [ 'ES', 'REALE SEGUROS GENERALES, S.A' ], 'ORG-SS244-RIPE' => [ 'FR', 'SOPRA HR Software SA' ], 'ORG-XISG1-RIPE' => [ 'DE', 'Atos IT Services GmbH' ], A quick look at the WHOIS record for any of the above orgs shows that there is no real mystery about which country each one is in. (If there is any doubt, then simply googling the mailing address in the WHOIS clears that right up.) The apparent fact that the country codes for the orgs listed above are altogether easy to reliably infer is only really relevant in the case where RIPE NCC itself (rather than the orgs) is doing the work to add the country fields into the org records that don't already have them. Obviously, doing this on a large scale will be REALLY tedious work, but from a technical perspective, at least, it doesn't seem to be either a particularly hard task or a task which is particularly fraught with difficult-to-resolve ambiguities. (So I guess that's the "good news" part of the story. If RIPE NCC is doing the work, then they just have to find someone to sit and do this, 8 hours a day, until it is either finished or until that person goes blind or commits suicide due to the excessive tedium of the task.) Regards, rfg

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Agenda RIPE82 - Database Working Group
by William Sylvester 12 May '21

12 May '21

Dear Working Group Members, Below is the agenda for the Database Working Group for RIPE82. If you have any questions, comments, or requested changes please let the chairs know. Best regards, William & Denis DB-WG Chairs A. Introduction - 5 min * Welcome * Scribe * Jabber * Agenda B. Operational Update RIPE Database – 10 mins Edward Shryane, RIPE NCC C. Geofeeds – 10 mins Massimo Candela, NTT D. Cloud Migration – 20 mins Sander Buskens, RIPE NCC E. NWI - Open Proposals – 10 mins Z. AOB (open discussion)

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New on RIPE Labs: RPKI Repositories and the RIPE Database in the Cloud
by Alun Davies 10 May '21

10 May '21

Dear colleagues, The mission critical services the RIPE NCC provides to the Internet community require a solid technical foundation. In this new article on RIPE Labs, Felipe Silveira looks at plans to use cloud infrastructure as a means to that end. The full article is available here: https://labs.ripe.net/author/felipe_victolla_silveira/rpki-repositories-and… Kind regards, Alun Davies RIPE Labs Editor RIPE NCC

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Re: [db-wg] Cleanup of route(6) objects in the RIPE NONAUTH database using unregistered space
by denis walker 07 May '21

07 May '21

Hi Arash For most issues we would not come to such a quick conclusion. But deleting ROUTE objects for unallocated address space seems to be a very non-contentious issue. Over this last year it has been difficult to get comments, feedback or any discussion on many issues. So I think two weeks (just before a RIPE Meeting) is a reasonable time frame for objections for this, and none were received. cheers denis co-chair DB-WG On Fri, 7 May 2021 at 12:59, Arash Naderpour <arash.naderpour(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I have no objection but it looks a bit weird to me to come to this quick conclusion. > > Regards, > > Arash > > On Fri, 7 May 2021, 22:56 denis walker via db-wg, <db-wg(a)ripe.net> wrote: >> >> HI Ed >> >> As no one has objected I think we can assume you can go ahead with this plan. >> >> cheers >> denis >> co-chair DB-WG >> >> On Fri, 7 May 2021 at 09:20, Edward Shryane <eshryane(a)ripe.net> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Cynthia, Denis, >> > >> > Thanks for your feedback. I will plan to implement a cleanup job without an NWI, and will keep the DB-WG informed. >> > >> > Regards >> > Ed Shryane >> > RIPE NCC >> > >> > On 25 Apr 2021, at 13:03, Cynthia Revström <me(a)cynthia.re> wrote: >> > >> > imo an NWI seems unnecessary unless we want it for purposes of referencing back to in the future. >> > >> > -Cynthia >> > >> > On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 04:02 denis walker via db-wg <db-wg(a)ripe.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> Colleagues >> >> >> >> How do you want to proceed with this suggestion? Do we have support >> >> for deleting these ROUTE(6) objects for deregistered space and where >> >> the objects were created before registration? Does anyone have any >> >> objections to this as an ongoing cleanup? >> >> >> >> Do we even need an NWI or can we just ask the NCC to go ahead with it? >> >> >> >> cheers >> >> denis >> >> co-chair DB-WG >> >> >> >> On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 15:07, Edward Shryane via db-wg <db-wg(a)ripe.net> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Dear colleagues, >> >> > >> >> > In response to the recent discussion on "196.52.0.0/14 revoked, cleanup efforts needed", I'd like to propose a regular automated cleanup of route(6) objects in the RIPE-NONAUTH database using unregistered space. >> >> > >> >> > Regards >> >> > Ed Shryane >> >> > RIPE NCC >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Problem Definition >> >> > ------------------ >> >> > When an RIR deregisters IPv4/IPv6 address space, any route(6) objects in the RIPE-NONAUTH database using that address space are not cleaned up (deleted). >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Solution Definition >> >> > ------------------- >> >> > Once a day, compare route(6) IPv4/IPv6 prefixes in the RIPE-NONAUTH database against the combined delegated stats from all RIRs. >> >> > >> >> > Only route(6) prefixes that are "allocated" or "assigned" in any RIRs delegated stats should remain in the RIPE NONAUTH database. If a prefix is "available" or "reserved" then it is considered to be unregistered, and any associated route(6) objects will be eligible for deletion. >> >> > >> >> > If a prefix is partially "available" or "reserved" then it is also considered to be unregistered. >> >> > >> >> > If a prefix is not listed in any RIRs delegated stats, that prefix is skipped. >> >> > >> >> > The origin AS status is not considered, only the IPv4/IPv6 prefix. >> >> > >> >> > If a newly unregistered prefix is discovered, first allow a grace period of 1 week. This allows time for mistakes in the delegated stats to be corrected. >> >> > >> >> > After 1 week, contact the route(6) maintainer(s) to notify them that the route(6) object will be deleted. >> >> > >> >> > After a further 2 weeks, delete the route(6) object. >> >> > >> >> > A maintainer can request the RIPE NCC to exclude a route(6) prefix from deletion (for example, the deregistration of the prefix is being disputed). For any excluded prefixes, any associated route(6) objects will not be deleted. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Impact Analysis >> >> > ------------------ >> >> > There are approximately 738 routes (out of 56,230) in the RIPE-NONAUTH database using a prefix with status "available" or "reserved" in an RIRs delegated stats, which will be eligible for deletion. >> >> > >> >> > There are approximately 94 route6's (out of 1,564) in the RIPE-NONAUTH database using a prefix with status "available" or "reserved", so also eligible for deletion. >> >> > >> >> > There are approximately 64 routes and 37 route6's with a prefix not listed in any RIR's delegated stats. These will not be affected. >> >> > >> >> > When this cleanup is implemented, the backlog of route(6) objects eligible for deletion will be processed at the same time, leading to a large amount of emails to affected maintainers. Once this backlog is processed, the number of route(6) objects affected is expected to be low. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >>

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Re: [db-wg] Cleanup of route(6) objects in the RIPE NONAUTH database using unregistered space
by Edward Shryane 07 May '21

07 May '21

Hi Cynthia, Denis, Thanks for your feedback. I will plan to implement a cleanup job without an NWI, and will keep the DB-WG informed. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC > On 25 Apr 2021, at 13:03, Cynthia Revström <me(a)cynthia.re> wrote: > > imo an NWI seems unnecessary unless we want it for purposes of referencing back to in the future. > > -Cynthia > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 04:02 denis walker via db-wg <db-wg(a)ripe.net <mailto:db-wg@ripe.net>> wrote: > Colleagues > > How do you want to proceed with this suggestion? Do we have support > for deleting these ROUTE(6) objects for deregistered space and where > the objects were created before registration? Does anyone have any > objections to this as an ongoing cleanup? > > Do we even need an NWI or can we just ask the NCC to go ahead with it? > > cheers > denis > co-chair DB-WG > > On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 15:07, Edward Shryane via db-wg <db-wg(a)ripe.net <mailto:db-wg@ripe.net>> wrote: > > > > Dear colleagues, > > > > In response to the recent discussion on "196.52.0.0/14 <http://196.52.0.0/14> revoked, cleanup efforts needed", I'd like to propose a regular automated cleanup of route(6) objects in the RIPE-NONAUTH database using unregistered space. > > > > Regards > > Ed Shryane > > RIPE NCC > > > > > > > > Problem Definition > > ------------------ > > When an RIR deregisters IPv4/IPv6 address space, any route(6) objects in the RIPE-NONAUTH database using that address space are not cleaned up (deleted). > > > > > > Solution Definition > > ------------------- > > Once a day, compare route(6) IPv4/IPv6 prefixes in the RIPE-NONAUTH database against the combined delegated stats from all RIRs. > > > > Only route(6) prefixes that are "allocated" or "assigned" in any RIRs delegated stats should remain in the RIPE NONAUTH database. If a prefix is "available" or "reserved" then it is considered to be unregistered, and any associated route(6) objects will be eligible for deletion. > > > > If a prefix is partially "available" or "reserved" then it is also considered to be unregistered. > > > > If a prefix is not listed in any RIRs delegated stats, that prefix is skipped. > > > > The origin AS status is not considered, only the IPv4/IPv6 prefix. > > > > If a newly unregistered prefix is discovered, first allow a grace period of 1 week. This allows time for mistakes in the delegated stats to be corrected. > > > > After 1 week, contact the route(6) maintainer(s) to notify them that the route(6) object will be deleted. > > > > After a further 2 weeks, delete the route(6) object. > > > > A maintainer can request the RIPE NCC to exclude a route(6) prefix from deletion (for example, the deregistration of the prefix is being disputed). For any excluded prefixes, any associated route(6) objects will not be deleted. > > > > > > Impact Analysis > > ------------------ > > There are approximately 738 routes (out of 56,230) in the RIPE-NONAUTH database using a prefix with status "available" or "reserved" in an RIRs delegated stats, which will be eligible for deletion. > > > > There are approximately 94 route6's (out of 1,564) in the RIPE-NONAUTH database using a prefix with status "available" or "reserved", so also eligible for deletion. > > > > There are approximately 64 routes and 37 route6's with a prefix not listed in any RIR's delegated stats. These will not be affected. > > > > When this cleanup is implemented, the backlog of route(6) objects eligible for deletion will be processed at the same time, leading to a large amount of emails to affected maintainers. Once this backlog is processed, the number of route(6) objects affected is expected to be low. > > > > > > >

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Reminder, join us today for the RIPE Database Requirements Task Force BoF
by Bijal Sanghani 05 May '21

05 May '21

Dear all, The third RIPE Database Requirements Task Force (DBTF) BoF will take place today from 16:00 - 17:30 (UTC +2) via zoom. We will present our latest recommendations and discuss a list of open issues with the community ahead of the publication of our final draft. More information and joining details are available at:https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/tf/rdb-requirements-tf/bof-5-may-2… Hope to see many of you online later! Kind regards, Bijal on behalf of the DBTF

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