- db-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Re: Unique NIC/RIPE/xxx-Handles
by Duncan Rogerson 26 Jul '93

26 Jul '93

> One of the ideas we talked about was to go to a structure like > > NIC-XY999 (derived from the current NIC-Handles by prepending NIC-) > RIPE-XY999 (newly assigned within the RIPE community) So you end up with data like : person: Duncan Rogerson . . handle: NIC-DR222 handle: RIPE-DR001 (assuming multiple handle: fields are permitted, to cope with people who for one reason or another have both types of handle). or person: A Person . . handle: RIPE-AP001 .. in the database ? Or should the name of the field distinguish between RIPE and NIC handles - ie the person object can have two fields, nic-hdl: and ripe-hdl: to cope with people who end up with a handle of each type. Dunc

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Unique NIC/RIPE/xxx-Handles
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 23 Jul '93

23 Jul '93

Dear DB-folks, during the IETF we (Daniel K, Ruediger V and me) had a short ad-hoc meeting and identified some aspects of the RIPE-DB business that should be addressed and discussed. One of them, and quite urgently needed is to agree on structure and procedures to obtain unique handles for people who do not (yet) have NIC handles. One of the ideas we talked about was to go to a structure like NIC-XY999 (derived from the current NIC-Handles by prepending NIC-) RIPE-XY999 (newly assigned within the RIPE community) Reudiger even thought about adding even more structure like RIPE-Provider_ID-XY999, or RIPE-XY999-Provider_specific... The issue here is whether we want to have the Provider_ID as part of the hierarchy tree. My personal preference is the RIPE-XY999[-optional-Provider_specific...] format, the handle being unique without the Provider part. Another question is where and how to register/assign these handles. One possibility could be to have this as a service from and at the NCC, say assigned by some script. A Different approach would be to assign them somehow at the Local-IRs. Could you please comment on these? I'd like to have some form of consensus ready for approval at the next RIPE meeting. Best regards, Wilfried.

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Re: EU.net and eu.net database entries
by RIPE NCC Staff 23 Jul '93

23 Jul '93

Piet.Beertema(a)mcsun.EU.net writes: * A day or so ago I submitted a new entry for the EU.net domain, * meant to be a change on the current entry. However, I denoted * it as "EU.net" (which is the official name) instead of eu.net. * Now it appears that the updating software saw this as a *new* * entry rather than an update, in other words it doesn't work * case-independent. On the other hand the database query s/w * does work case-independent, so "whois eu.net" now gives me * two entries... * Could you remove the old eu.net entry? I dare not submit a * change for it to get it deleted, in case the updating s/w * decides to start working case-independent in that case... Sorry Piet, old, old, old software ... The new software will take care of this, but I think the new software will change everything to lowercase. I have not written this part yet, have to put some thought in it though. Anyone in the database working group has any feeling how these should be dealt with ? From a programming point of view, handling everything lowercase is much easier, I do not really want to check every single combination of lower/uppercase before I update something ... Then again, after some thinking (I usually type faster than I think ;-) the indexing is done in lowercase, and key lookups are always normalized to lowercase before a lookup. So the real question is, should entries in the database be left untouched when it comes to upper/lowercase, or should all be normalized ? -Marten

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Re: EU.net and eu.net database entries
by craig＠icm1.icp.net 23 Jul '93

23 Jul '93

> (I usually type faster than I think ;-) the indexing is done in lowercase, > and key lookups are always normalized to lowercase before a lookup. > > So the real question is, should entries in the database be left untouched > when it comes to upper/lowercase, or should all be normalized ? since all is normalized to lowercase before a lookup i think it is OK to have the database show things in capital letters as long as everyone knows all is treated as lowercase. summary: o view as is stored in the database o normalize before performing other operations on the database. craig

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Re: EU.net and eu.net database entries
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 23 Jul '93

23 Jul '93

Marten, >Sorry Piet, old, old, old software ... The new software will take care of >this, but I think the new software will change everything to lowercase. I >have not written this part yet, have to put some thought in it though. > >Anyone in the database working group has any feeling how these should be >dealt with ? From a programming point of view, handling everything lowercase >is much easier, I do not really want to check every single combination of >lower/uppercase before I update something ... Then again, after some thinking >(I usually type faster than I think ;-) the indexing is done in lowercase, >and key lookups are always normalized to lowercase before a lookup. > >So the real question is, should entries in the database be left untouched >when it comes to upper/lowercase, or should all be normalized ? I'd prefer the following behaviour: - In the external representation keep it exactly as it was submitted, with mixed case intact. - Internally, whenever you use this string for an index, compare or lookup, consistently convert it to lowercase, thus prohibiting duplicates with different case. I think this would even be in line with the current behaviour of other programs... I don't have any idea what this would mean to the implementer programming-wise... Wilfried.

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New database software update
by Marten Terpstra 24 Jun '93

24 Jun '93

all, It's time to let you know what has happened wth RIPE database software development. After some more experimenting to check feasibility we have progressed quite far into a complete rewrite of the database software. We have completed the system design and started to implement various modules. The new design has the following features - fully (and we *mean* fully!) configurable from a config file - separate files (and indices) to store different databases - dynamic updates and deletes as opposed to batch only - possibility for update protocol other than e-mail - guarded fields designed in - dynamic update of secondary databases possible Features which have been requested but are not designed in: - preserve the order of tags within object - preserve the position of remark or comment lines within objects These two features turned out to be hard to specify in the light of updates and even harder to implement. They might go in the next release if someone can come up with a consistent and intuitive spec. The new software will be implemented in the perl language. So those of you who do not have it installed and want to use the RIPE database software should plan to install perl. Of course you won't need perl if you just want to use a whois client and send in updates by mail. Implementing in perl instead of shell, awk and C has three benefits: coding in perl ist fast, subroutines can be used (missing from std awk) and the result is portable. We have a copy of the alpha software running on a PC under UNIX. Together with a notebook this gives you a "portable" RIPE database. The first module completed is the whois server (net.c and netdbm.c replacement). This server runs as its own daemon process rather than under inetd. The measured performance on a SUN ELC before optimising is 5 queries/s on average and the server can sustain peaks of 50 queries arriving in parallel. The new server is compatible with the current one and has some added features: the source databases (RIPE, MERIT, NIC etc.) can be selected individually rather than either RIPE or all, the same connection can be used for multiple queries (nice for tools like prtraceroute), a grep type query as well as nice logging. We have an alpha version of the whois server and the database indexing tool running. The next part to be tackled is the update procedure including the guarded attributes. The last part will be the current mail interface for the update procedure. Impact: Sometime in the next few weeks (after another announcement) we will start using the new server on whois.ripe.net. This should be transparent. Once this is running we will implement the backlogged new tags such as the DMZ specifics in the network and the operatinal contacts. Sometime later we will start using the new update procedures. This will mean that updates mailed in will appear in the database more quickly. It will also mean that we will be more stringent in checking updates, because there will be less human intervention from NCC staff. So you should expect more bounced updates, but they will also happen much more quickly. Diagnostics will be better because the dynamic update procedure will have access to the current database. This will mean that heuristic checks of updates can be better. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask them either puclicly for the benefit of all or privately. The NCC people working on this are me (design, coding and testing) and Daniel (design and testing). Cheers, -Marten

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RIPE whois server
by Marten Terpstra 16 Jun '93

16 Jun '93

Dear people, I am currently working on a new whois server and update procedure and would like to know if there are any additional features you would like to see in the server (I'll leave the update procedure for now, still too early to talk about features). I have rewritten de whois server and the index program in Perl, and have a prototype running (not the production server). I have made the following changes: - database objects are *completely* configurable from a configuration file - this means the indexer follows this file to look for keys - the server follows this file for recursive lookups - multiple databases can be served, all seperately indexed, and kept in seperate files (with the same object structure though) - databases can be indexed at different times - all configurable from config file. - additional functionality in the server - "-s SOURCE" flag to ask the data from specific source (in the prototype "RIPE", "MERIT" and "INTERNIC") - default SOURCE configurable in config file - all SOURCES ("-a" flag) configurable in config file - "-g" option to indicate an object "grep" for a certain string, in stead of the normal key lookup (running low priority - slow) - able to handle more queries/sec (no longer running out of inetd) - an option to keep a connection to the server open, for multiple queries fast after each other. (esp useful for applications like prtraceroute) Any other features you always wanted to have in the server ? Now is the time to make them known, so that we could incorporate them. If you want to have a go at the new server, it is running on rijp.ripe.net on the normal whois port (no uptime guarentees). One thing is that the new flags (-g and -s) do not work with the RIPE whois client ;-( An old client with the flags inside quotes should work. Oh, just remembered, -g is not implemented yet ;-) The data in the prototype server is a bit outdated (last weeks databases or so). so, with an old client you should be able to say: whois -h rijp.ripe.net "-s ripe marten" whois -h rijp.ripe.net "-s merit 192.87.45" whois -h rijp.ripe.net "-s internic mt2" whois -h rijp.ripe.net "-a 192.87.45" You can give it a stress test if you wish, we have done the same, and could not make it crash yet (we did 50 parallel sessions of 10 sequential queries each) A little bit on the update procedure, we are implementing an "on-the-fly" update procedure, that is, no "once-a-day" updates, but updates are processed and incorporated in the running database (and whois server) immediately when they come in. This would mean that (because there will be no manual intervention any longer) that more updates will be bounced because of syntax errors, but you get the bounces fast ;-) Then once a day the guarded tags will be added at a set time. They will be ignored during the normal updates. Please do not nag too much on the update procedure yet, it is still in a "pre-pre-pre-prototype" stage. So, so much for a quick update, if you have suggestions, please let me know. -Marten

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Description of Inter-AS Networks in the RIPE Routing Registry
by Daniel Karrenberg 08 Jun '93

08 Jun '93

Friends, here is the proposal on how to solve the prtraceroute problem as discussed in the last routing-WG meeting. Could we have comments until May 17th please! I'll circulate new versions as substantive comments are incorporated. The goal is to have the database capable of storing this a.s.a.p. and have some data in there quickly as prtraceroute is released. Note that this is not only useful for prtraceroute but much more generally. It could also be the start of the local inter-AS connection information dicussed in the last routing-wg meeting too. As such this addendum could be extended. Proposals ? Cheers Daniel Description of Inter-AS Networks in the RIPE Routing Registry Tony Bates Daniel Karrenberg Addendum to Representation of IP Routing Policies in the RIPE Database (ripe-81) What is an Inter-AS Network ? Inter-AS IP networks are those networks which connect multi- ple autonomous systems (1). An inter-AS network exists for the purpose of passing traffic and routing information between different autonomous systems. The most simple exam- ple of an inter-AS network is a point-to-point link, con- necting exactly two ASes. Each end of such a link is con- nected to an interface of router living in each of the auto- nomous systems. More complex examples are broadcast type networks with multiple interfaces connecting multiple ASes with the possibility of more than one connection per AS. Which additional information is needed? Consider the following example of three routers 1, 2 and 3 with interfaces a through f connected by two inter-AS net- works X and Y: X Y a1b --- c2d --- e3f _________________________ (1) Inter-AS networks are currently called FIXes, IXFs, DMZs, NAPs, GIX and other names. - 2 - Suppose that network X is registered in the routing registry as part of AS1 and net Y as part of AS3. If traffic passes from left to right prtraceroute will report the following sequence of interfaces and ASes: a in AS1 c in AS1 e in AS3 The traceroute algorithm enumerates only the receiving interfaces on the way to the destination. In the example this leads to the passage of AS2 going unnoticed. This is confusing to the user and will also generate exceptions when the path found is checked against the routing registry. For operational monitoring tools such as prtraceroute it is necessary to know which interface on an inter-AS network belongs to which AS. If AS information is not known about interfaces on an inter-AS network, tools like prtraceroute cannot determine correctly which ASes are being traversed. Proposed Format All interfaces on inter-AS networks will be described in a new ias-int attribute of the corresponding network object in the RIPE database. The ias-int attribute has the following syntax: ias-int: <interface-address> <autonomous-system> The <interface-address> must be an address within the corresponding intenum and <autonomous-system> must be of the form AS<number> refering to an aut-num object in the data- base. - 3 - For example: inetnum: 193.193.193.0 netname: INTER-AS-EXAMPLE descr: This is a hypothetical inter-as network. descr: It might be called a NAP, FIX, GIX, IXF, DMZ, descr: Mehrfachdienstanbieterkommunikationseinrichtung or ... country: DE admin-c: Werner Mueller tech-c: Paul Schmitz tech-c: Hans Meier changed: ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net 920714 aut-sys: AS4711 ias-int: 193.193.193.1 AS123 ias-int: 193.193.193.3 AS4711 ias-int: 193.193.193.9 AS789 source: RIPE Note that the interface 193.193.193.3 is described although it is in the same AS as the network. This is recommended practice. The update procedure for the ias-int attribute will be the normal update procedure for network objects. The attribute does not need to be guarded because it does not influence routing policy of operational traffic. In which AS does an Inter-AS Network belong? Only one AS announces an inter-AS network externally. The other ASes connected to the inter-AS network will probably carry this network in their internal routing for redundancy but will not announce it to other ASes. In exceptional cases more than one AS may need to originate external routing information about the inter-AS network, This kind of routing setup cannot be described within the framework of ripe-81 and is generally discouraged. Tools using a ripe-81 type registry could take heuristic hints from the ias-int attributes when they encounter such situa- tions.

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Mail archive
by Marten Terpstra 14 May '93

14 May '93

Folks, We have created an archive of all mails that go over the db list on ftp.ripe.net:ripe/archives/db Current directory contents: % ls -lg ~ftp/ripe/archives/db total 128 -rw-r--r-- 1 marten staff 2163 May 14 15:58 db.Apr-93.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 marten staff 30977 May 14 15:58 db.Feb-93.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 marten staff 5416 May 14 15:58 db.Jan-93.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 marten staff 65481 May 14 15:58 db.Mar-93.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 marten staff 9896 May 14 15:57 db.Nov-92.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 marten staff 13376 May 14 15:55 db.Oct-92.Z -Marten

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RIPE database on ftp.ripe.net
by Marten Terpstra 12 May '93

12 May '93

db and routing gurus, Since there have been people complaining about the size of the database that they need to transfer every day to just update their access-lists, we have made a little script that will split the database into several pieces, one file per object type in the database. This script will run every night at 20:00, so please make sure that if you retrieve one of these files that you do it after 20:00. We did not want to add it to the update procedure of the database straightaway, since that is already overloaded with side effects. Please check the date on the first line if you are not quite sure you have the latest copy. The date line and copyright notice have been copied to all seperate files. The seperate files can be found on ftp.ripe.net:/ripe/dbase/split. Below is the current directory contents. All files are compressed, but since our ftp server compresses and uncompresses on the fly, there is not really a difference. -Marten % ls -lg ~ftp/ripe/dbase/split -rw-r--r-- 1 root dbase 7301 May 12 16:46 ripe.db.aut-num.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 root dbase 1235 May 12 16:45 ripe.db.bdry-gw.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 root dbase 173800 May 12 16:46 ripe.db.domain.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 root dbase 618303 May 12 16:46 ripe.db.inetnum.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 root dbase 737450 May 12 16:45 ripe.db.person.Z -rw-r--r-- 1 root dbase 883 May 12 16:45 ripe.db.rout-pr.Z

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AS information available via DNS
by Tony Bates 12 May '93

12 May '93

Folks, As one of the actions from the last RIPE meeting we have been thinking about a nice way to have an automatic update procedure based on DNS. As a trial for this an auto-script has been been produced that loads current AS derived data into zonefiles under the domain aut-num.ripe.net. This has two very nice features straight away. It allows you to see a list of networks associated with an AS. For example... [mature-tony-1480] host -lt txt as1104.aut-num.ripe.net AS1104.aut-num.ripe.net TXT 192.16.185.0 AS1104.aut-num.ripe.net TXT 192.16.186.0 AS1104.aut-num.ripe.net TXT 192.16.194.0 AS1104.aut-num.ripe.net TXT 192.16.195.0 AS1104.aut-num.ripe.net TXT 192.16.199.0 AS1104.aut-num.ripe.net TXT 192.87.45.0 I currently use TXT records for the zonefiles (suggestions are welcome if something else is more appropriate ?). Also, you can do more interesting things like perhaps generate access-lists.. For Example... [mature-tony-1482] host -lt txt as1104.aut-num.ripe.net | awk '{ printf ("acces s-list 30 permit %s\n", $3)}' access-list 30 permit 192.16.185.0 access-list 30 permit 192.16.186.0 access-list 30 permit 192.16.194.0 access-list 30 permit 192.16.195.0 access-list 30 permit 192.16.199.0 access-list 30 permit 192.87.45.0 and so on. You can also see what ASes are currently in the RIPE database. host -lt ns aut-num.ripe.net aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS760.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS766.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS590.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net NONE-LOCAL.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1717.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS2107.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS2108.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS2111.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1205.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS786.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS2116.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS789.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1213.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS2119.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1899.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS2122.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1739.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1741.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1923.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1752.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1755.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1241.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS2148.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS137.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1770.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS513.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1257.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS2004.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS517.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS679.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1104.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1267.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1274.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1275.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS697.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS174.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS719.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS544.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1290.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS2380.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS2036.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS553.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS2043.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1324.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS559.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS378.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1849.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net NONE.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS1853.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS565.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS224.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net AS60.aut-num.ripe.net NS mature.ripe.net The NONE and NONE-LOCAL zones are not currently loaded. The second aspect of this is the possibilty of having an update procedure based on DNS. Here we could delegate the zone to the "guardian" and if we provided a consistency checking tool to avoid conflicts it would be a nice "dynamic" mechanism for updating AS information. We would like to go this way if you feel using DNS is reasonable as opposed to using some form of login/ftp mechanism as previous used for ripe-60 tags and planned for ripe-81. Please let us know your views on this and also please try looking at the information in the aut-num.ripe.net zone. --Tony

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Re: AS information available via DNS
by Tony Bates 06 May '93

06 May '93

"Willem van der Scheun, SARA, +31 20 5923079" <SCHEUN(a)SARA.NL> writes: * Tony, * * This sounds at first sight as a good idea. Fairly dynamic and distributed a * nd * the like. Right. * A remark about the possibility as building access lists and the like. You c * an * do that quite easily of course, but I would like to have one way of buildin * g * access lists (and BGP network lists for that matter) from the RIPE database * . * Currently we are using nlc. I would definitely prefer that we have ONE tool * to * generate the lists. Apart form this other nice solutions may be available. * Talking about this, will te the tool the NCC is working upon (as was report * ed * at the last RIPE), be based on nlc, or is it completely new? Sure - this was only an example of doing things interactively with the information is all. The tools we are working on will be able to make use of nlc also and generate both ASpath lists and network based lists. * * If you delegate zones should this delegation also be put in the AS object l * ike * it is in the domain object? Delegation can not be done to the guardian (I g * uess * that's why you used double quotes). For AS1103 (SURFnet) the guardian is a * alias for a list of responsibles. If you put delegation info in the AS info * , Well the thing is. Whatever way the update is done it will be some form of file maintainence and whether that is here or there, to me at least doesn't make a lot of difference even if it is multiple people maintaining the zone. * should this state nserver as well as zone-c and tech-c? * Possibly if it is decided this is how the update procedure is done. * Willem --T

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RE: AS information available via DNS
by Willem van der Scheun, SARA, +31 20 5923079 06 May '93

06 May '93

Tony, This sounds at first sight as a good idea. Fairly dynamic and distributed and the like. A remark about the possibility as building access lists and the like. You can do that quite easily of course, but I would like to have one way of building access lists (and BGP network lists for that matter) from the RIPE database. Currently we are using nlc. I would definitely prefer that we have ONE tool to generate the lists. Apart form this other nice solutions may be available. Talking about this, will te the tool the NCC is working upon (as was reported at the last RIPE), be based on nlc, or is it completely new? If you delegate zones should this delegation also be put in the AS object like it is in the domain object? Delegation can not be done to the guardian (I guess that's why you used double quotes). For AS1103 (SURFnet) the guardian is a alias for a list of responsibles. If you put delegation info in the AS info, should this state nserver as well as zone-c and tech-c? Willem

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Additional ways to access the RIPE database
by Marten Terpstra 05 May '93

05 May '93

People, We have been experimenting a bit with other means of accessing the RIPE database and have implemented access via "finger" and mail. Especially the last one should be a real addition to access, since we have had requests from people that just had e-mail facilities, but did want to access the database. So, you can use: finger 192.87.45.0(a)whois.ripe.net finger as1104(a)whois.ripe.net and all the other keys to access the RIPE database (RIPE part only) or send mail to <whois(a)ripe.net> with a message containing lines starting with "whois" and then a key (one word keys only), for instance: whois 192.87.45 whois as1104 Make sure that the line starts with whois (no leading characters). Please give them a try and see if you like it. -Marten

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193.in-addr.arpa procedures -> ripe-85
by Marten Terpstra 03 May '93

03 May '93

Folks, The 193.in-addr.arpa delegation procedures have been made into a RIPE document ripe-85. Only changes since version 1.4 are a few typos and cosmetic. You can find it as ftp.ripe.net:ripe/docs/ripe-docs/ripe-85.txt It is now version 1.5. Before asking for a block delegation, please read the document. Cheers, -Marten

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Re: Problems with putting a bl (futur as) in a block
by Marten Terpstra 22 Apr '93

22 Apr '93

farrache(a)ccpnxt5.in2p3.fr (Gilles Farrache) writes: * * If I have (or you or anyone else) to ask a NIC (Italien or not) to modify a * * block for routing problems it is completly illogical. In fact we decide to * put a bl flag manage by the routing operator in order to be able not to * depend on national NICS, so if to split a block for routing problems we have * * to ask the national NIC, what has been put in place is completly useless. Gilles, The flags are controlled by guardians, but should only be put in a network number on request of one of the contact persons of a network (or the organisation that represents them). This same person or organisation controls the data in the database. If they decide to put a block in the database, they make clear that they want the block treated as one unit. If they then want to have some of these nets routed seperately or have different information for these nets, THEY are responsible for splitting the block, not you. They have the control over their data in the database, and can change it themselves. The fact that a national NIC (like GARR NIS) manages the data, does not mean that they control the data. The responsible for a network can still change the data themselves, although the GARR NIS would like to get these changes as well to keep their own database in sync with the RIPE database. It is not that ONLY the GARR NIS (or any other NIC, just using GARR NIS as an example) can change the data, by no means. -Marten

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Proposed agenda DB-WG for the RIPE Mtg
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet, +43 1 436111 355 20 Apr '93

20 Apr '93

Raw proposal for the DB-WG meeting in Amsterdam. I'd like to have a 1.5 hour slot allocated. Any comments/additions welcome! Wilfried. ________________________________________________________________________________ RIPE Database WG Proposed agenda for RIPE 15 meeting - Review of recently introduced and proposed DB objects - Review of basic documents describing the DB objects and operational procedures. - Discussion of requests from other WGs - AoB ________________________________________________________________________________

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193.in-addr.arpa procedures V1.3
by Marten Terpstra 29 Mar '93

29 Mar '93

Folks, One last go. I think we folded in most of the comments from Blaso and others. We have included the procedures for single class C reverse zones, not via block zones. We are already doing our first trials with block delegations, all seems to work fine. Please let's get this document accepted and delegate these blocks. -Marten Guidelines for the delegation of zones in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain Marten Terpstra March 1993 V1.3 Introduction This document describes the procedures for the delegation of authority of zones in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain. As of March 16th 1993 the RIPE NCC has been delegated the authority for the 193.in-addr.arpa domain from the root. Due to the fact that in the 193.x.y address space blocks of 256 class C network numbers are further delegated to local registries , the possibility exists to also delegate the zone for these blocks in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain. This document describes some guidelines and procedures for this type of delegation and the delegation of reverse zones for individual class C networks in 193.x.y. A bit more explained With the assignment of class C network numbers following the CIDR (RFC 1338) model, in which large chunks of the address space are delegated to one region, and within that region blocks of class C network numbers are delegated to service providers and non-provider registries, some hierarchy in the address space is created, similar to the hierarchy in the domain name space. Due to this hierarchy the reverse Domain Name System mapping can also be delegated in a similar model as used for the normal Domain Name System. For instance, the RIPE NCC has been assigned the complete class C address space starting with 193. It is therefore possible to delegate the 193.in-addr.arpa domain completely to the RIPE NCC, instead of each and every reverse mapping in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain to be registered with the INTERNIC. This implies that all 193.in-addr.arpa resistrations will be done by the RIPE NCC. Even better, since service providers receive complete class C network blocks from the RIPE NCC, the RIPE NCC can delegate the reverse registrations for such complete blocks to these local registries. This implies that customers of these service providers no longer have to register their reverse domain mapping with the root, but the service provider have authority over that part of the reverse mapping. This decreases the workload on the INTERNIC and the RIPE NCC, and at the same time increase the service a provider can offer its customers by improve response times for reverse mapping changes . However there are some things that need to be examined a bit more closely to avoid confusion and inconsistencies. These issues are covered in the next section. Procedures for the delegation of direct subdomains of 193.in-addr.arpa 1. A secondary nameserver at ns.ripe.net is mandatory for all blocks of class C network numbers delegated in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain. 2. Because of the increasing importance of correct reverse address mapping, for all delegated blocks a good set of secondaries must be defined. There should be at least 2 nameservers for all blocks delegated, excluding the RIPE NCC secondary. 3. The delegation of a class C block in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain can be requested by sending in a domain object for the RIPE database to <hostmaster(a)ripe.net> with all necessary contact and nameserver information. The RIPE NCC will then forward all current reverse zones inside this block to the registry, and after addition of these by the registry, the NCC will check the working of the reverse server. Once everything is setup properly, the NCC will delegate the block, and submit the database object for inclusion in the database. An example domain object can be found at the end of this document. 4. All reverse servers for blocks must be reachable from the whole of the Internet. In short, all servers must meet similar connectivity requirements as top-level domain servers. 5. Running the reverse server for class C blocks does not imply that one controls that part of the reverse domain, it only implies that one administers that part of the reverse domain. 6. Before adding individual nets, the administrator of a reverse domain must check wether all servers to be added for these nets are indeed setup properly. 7. There are some serious implications when a customer of a service provider that uses address space out of the service provider class C blocks, moves to another service provider. The previous service provider cannot force its ex-customer to change network addresses, and will have to continue to provide the appropriate delegation records for reverse mapping of these addresses, even though it they are no longer belonging to a customer. 8. The registration of the reverse zones for individual class C networks will usually be done by the registry administering the class C block this network has been assigned from. The registry will make the necessary changes to the zone, and update the network objects in the RIPE database for these networks, to reflect the correct "rev-srv" fields. In case the RIPE NCC receives a request for the reverse zone of an individual class C network out of a block that has been delegated, the request will be forwarded to the zone contact for this reverse block. Above procedures are defined to ensure the necessary high availability for the 193 reverse domains, and to minimize confusion. The NCC will ensure fast repsonse times for addition requests, and will in principle update the 193.in-addr.arpa domain at least once per working day. Example domain object to request a block delegation domain: 202.193.in-addr.arpa descr: Pan European Organisations class C block admin-c: Daniel Karrenberg tech-c: Marten Terpstra zone-c: Marten Terpstra nserver: ns.eu.net nserver: sunic.sunet.se nserver: ns.ripe.net changed: marten(a)ripe.net 930319 source: RIPE Procedures for the delegation of individual network zones The registration of the reverse zones for individual class C networks will usually be done by the registry administering the class C block this network has been assigned from. In case the zone corresponding to the class C block has not been delegated, the RIPE NCC will automatically add the reverse nameserver as specified in the "rev-srv" attribute of the RIPE database object for this network, using the following procedures: 1. Because of the increasing importance of correct reverse address mapping, for all delegated networks a good set of secondaries must be defined. There should be at least two nameservers for all networks delegated. 2. The "rev-srv" field should ONLY contain one fully qualified domain name of a nameserver which is authoritative for the reverse zone for this network. 3. At least two reverse servers must be reachable from the whole of the Internet. In short, these servers must meet similar connectivity requirements as top-level domain servers. 4. The checking and addition of the reverse zones for single networks is completely automated at the RIPE NCC. Although we do our best to check the setup of the nameservers, these does not receive the same level of scrutiny as nameservers for blocks of class C network numbers. It is the responsibility of the network contacts to ensure proper operation. 5. Any problems regarding the reverse zones in 193.in-addr.arpa should be directed to <hostmaster(a)ripe.net>. The NCC also suggests that similar procedures are set up for the delegation of reverse zones for individual class C networks from the registries to individual organisations.

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Blocks in 193.in-addr.arpa domain document
by Marten Terpstra 24 Mar '93

24 Mar '93

Folks, Here's the updated document. I was planning on sending this out over the weekend, but forgot the modem cable ;-( Anyway, let's see if we can get agreement on this. Please note that the database specific things I do not want to spend too much on, this should be done at the RIPE meeting. A few more days to comment. Want to start delegating blocks end of the week, and during next week (although I will be at the IETF). -Marten Guidelines for the delegation of class C blocks in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain Marten Terpstra March 1993 V1.1 Introduction This document describes the procedures for the delegation of authority of zones in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain. As of March 16th 1993 the RIPE NCC has been delegated the authority for the 193.in-addr.arpa domain from the root. Due to the fact that in the 193.x.y address space blocks of 256 class C network numbers are further delegated to local registries and national registries, the possibility exists to also delegate the zone for these blocks in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain. This document describes some guidelines and procedures for this type of delegation. A bit more explained With the assignment of class C network numbers following the CIDR (RFC 1338) model, in which large chunks of the address space are delegated to one region, and within that region blocks of class C network numbers are delegated to service providers and national registries, some hierarchy in the address space is created, similar to the hierarchy in the domain name space. Due to this hierarchy the reverse Domain Name System mapping can also be delegated in a similar model as used for the normal Domain Name System. For instance, the RIPE NCC has been delegated the complete class C address space starting with 193. It is therefore possible to delegate the 193.in-addr.arpa domain completely to the RIPE NCC, in stead of each and every reverse mapping in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain to be registered with the INTERNIC. This implies that all 193.in-addr.arpa resistrations will be done by the RIPE NCC. Even better, since service providers receive complete class C network blocks from the RIPE NCC, the RIPE NCC can delegate the reverse registrations for such complete blocks to these local registries. This implies that customers of these service providers no longer have to register their reverse domain mapping with the root, but the service provider have authority over that part of the reverse mapping. This decreases the workload on the INTERNIC and the RIPE NCC, and at the same time increase the service a provider can offer its customers and response times for such additions. However there are some things that need to be examined a bit more closely to avoid confusion and inconsistencies. These issues are covered in the next section. Procedures 1. A secondary nameserver at ns.ripe.net is mandatory for all blocks of class C network numbers delegated in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain. 2. Because of the increasing importance of correct reverse address mapping, for all delegated blocks a good set of secondaries must be defined. There should be at least 2 nameservers for all blocks delegated, excluding the RIPE NCC secondary. 3. The delegation of a class C block in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain can be requested by sending in a domain object for the RIPE database to <hostmaster(a)ripe.net> with all necessary contact and nameserver information. The RIPE NCC will then forward all current reverse zones inside this block to the registry, and after addition by the registry, the NCC will check the working of the reverse server. Once everything is setup properly, the NCC will delegate the block, and submit the database object for inclusion in the database. An example domain object can be at the end of this document. 4. All reverse servers for blocks must be reachable from the whole of the Internet. In short, all servers must meet similar connectivity requirements as top-level domain servers. 5. Running the reverse server for class C blocks does not imply that one controls that part of the reverse domain, it only implies that one administers that part of the reverse domain. 6. Before adding individual nets, the administrator of a reverse domain must check wether all servers to be added for these nets are indeed setup properly. 7. There are some serious implications when a customer of a service provider that uses address space out of the service provider class C blocks, moves to another service provider. The service provider cannot force its ex-customer to change network addresses, and will have to continue to provide the appropriate delegation records for reverse mapping of these addresses, even though it is no longer a customer of his. 8. The registration of the reverse zones for individual class C networks will usually be done by the registry administering the class C block this network has been assigned from. The registry will make the necessary changes to the zone, and update the network objects in the RIPE database for these networks, to reflect the correct "rev-srv" fields. In case the RIPE NCC receives a request for the reverse zone of an individual class C network out of a block that has been delegated, the request will be forwarded to the zone contact for this reverse block. Above procedures are defined to ensure the necessary high availability for the 193 reverse domains, and to minimize confusion. The NCC will ensure fast repsonse times for addition requests, and will in principle update the 193.in-addr.arpa domain at least once per working day. The NCC also suggests that similar procedures are set up for the delegation of reverse zones from the registries to individual organisations. Example domain object to request a block delegation domain: 202.193.in-addr.arpa descr: Pan European Organisations class C block admin-c: Daniel Karrenberg tech-c: Marten Terpstra zone-c: Marten Terpstra nserver: ns.eu.net nserver: sunic.sunet.se nserver: ns.ripe.net changed: marten(a)ripe.net 930319 source: RIPE

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Typos in assignments
by Marten Terpstra 22 Mar '93

22 Mar '93

Dear Registries, We have found that the number of typos made in assignments and database updates is increasing too much lately. Especially mixing 192.x.y and 193.x.y is very popular. Also, we see a lot of 193 assignments send to <ripe-dbm>, and normal updates send in to <assign> We have for that purpose put some more strict checking on entries send in to <assign(a)ripe.net>. For each net that is being send in the <assign(a)ripe.net> we now check whether or not that network is already in the RIPE/MERIT/DDN database. If it is, it will be initially rejected and an error will be send to the NCC staff. The NCC staff will find out whether this is a typo, or just usage of the wrong e-mail address. In the latter case, we will forward the update to ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net, and it will be processed. If however a typo seems to be made, we will contact the person that send in the entry and try to resolve the issue. Long story short: - only NEW 193.x.y assignments to <assign(a)ripe.net> - ALL updates and other new entries to <ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net> -Marten

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Re: 193.in-addr.arpa block delegation procedures (draft)
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet, +43 1 436111 355 19 Mar '93

19 Mar '93

| * > Another thing would be to create YADO (Yet Another Database Object) for | * > delegated blocks only, but I do not quite like that idea either. | |After some in-house discussion here we would like to following: | |- requests for delegation of a block in 193.in-addr.arpa should be done | by sending in the xxx.193.in-addr.arpa domain object to HOSTMASTER. |- we will then forward all entries that are already in the 193.in-addr.arpa | zone that belong to this block |- we will check that the existing entries are put into the delegated zone. |- we will delegate authority, and pass object to the database |- we will forward any request for reverse registration inside this block | to the zone-c for this reverse block. I like it. |The question about zone-c in the inetnum object and/or removing the rev-srv |field and replace it by an individual net.block.193.in-addr.arpa domain is |something for the database and dns working group. We really would like to get |the block delegation going. I think this is the essential thing. I propose to go ahead _doing_ it. Otherwise I'd even like to suggest a "back to square one" approach for the DB issues. I think we have to back up and figure out/define _what_ we want to organize for _which_ group of people. Generally my feeling is that we should try to - use _existing_ procedures wherever possible without "bending" them - invent new and _simple_ things if there is a need (the KISS principle) - keep the procedure for the "users" as simple as possible. Personally I prefer additional "small" objects that can be cross-checked automatically for consistency against "huge" multi-purpose objects with a lot of options and implied semantics. But that's probably a question of taste... |If noone has strong objections against the above procedure for block |delegation (not the net things), I will update the document and send out a |new version later today (probably tonight). My vote in favour. wilfried. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wilfried Woeber : E-m: Wilfried.Woeber(a)CC.UniVie.ac.at (Internet) Computer Center - ACOnet : Z00WWR01(a)AWIUNI11.BITNET (EARN) Vienna University : [ woeber(a)can.aconet.ada.at (X.400) ] Universitaetsstrasse 7 : [ S O P A C ] A-1010 Vienna, Austria, Europe : Tel: +43 1 436111 355, Fax: +43 1 436111 170 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Use of RIPE DNS registration form
by Marten Terpstra 19 Mar '93

19 Mar '93

Havard Eidnes <Havard.Eidnes(a)runit.sintef.no> writes: * Hi, * * a question has recently arisen concerning the use of the RIPE form for * registering DNS domains in relation to registering names which only have MX * records associated with themselves. In this case, several of the mandatory * fields defined in the RIPE document ripe-49. In particular, we wonder what * we should do about these fields: Questions have been raised before. I have put in some comments given by people: * zone-c: * Should be zone contact of closest parent domain with a separate SOA * record? Why duplicate the information? According to some the zone-c for the closest SOA should be mentioned here. Other suggest that for MX only domains have no zone-c. * nserver: * Same as above? Each domain has a nserver, even an MX only domain. The MX records must be somewhere. This domain has no SOA though. * sub-dom: * Is it really necessary to list the sub-names in use (this also goes * for the general case, but also for the MX-only case) If you wish so. Most people do. Last meeting the DNS working group decided that the first level of useful domain names should be stored in the database, below that is for your own choice. You van in this way restrict the number of objects you have. Most useful level is usually 2, 3 in cases where co, ac and other second level domains are used: Useful: nikhef.nl ulcc.ac.uk ... Database and DNS working group, what say you ? -Marten

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193.in-addr.arpa block delegation procedures (draft)
by Marten Terpstra 19 Mar '93

19 Mar '93

Folks, It seems that the delegation of the 193.in-addr.arpa domain will take place during the root zone update of today. In order to be able to delegate class C blocks in this zone, we have drafted some procedures for this. Please read the paper below and comment within one week. We will finalize this paper next week, and then start delegating blocks of Cs in the domain. Cheers, -Marten Guidelines for the delegation of class C blocks in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain Marten Terpstra March 1993 1.0 Introduction This document describes the procedures for the delegation of authority of zones in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain. As of March 16th 1993 the RIPE NCC has been delegated the authority for the 193.in-addr.arpa domain from the root. Due to the fact that in the 193.x.y address space blocks of 256 class C network numbers are further delegated to local registries and national registries, the possibility exists to also delegate the zone for these blocks in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain. This document describes some guidelines and procedures for this type of delegation. A bit more explained With the assignment of class C network numbers following the CIDR (RFC 1338) model, in which large chunks of the address space are delegated to one region, and within that region blocks of class C network numbers are delegated to service providers and national registries, some hierarchy in the address space is created, similar to the hierarchy in the domain name space. Due to this hierarchy the reverse Domain Name System mapping can also be delegated in a similar model as used for the normal Domain Name System. For instance, the RIPE NCC has been delegated the complete class C address space starting with 193. It is therefore possible to delegate the 193.in-addr.arpa domain completely to the RIPE NCC, in stead of each and every reverse mapping in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain to be registered with the INTERNIC. This implies that all 193.in-addr.arpa resistrations will be done by the RIPE NCC. Even better, since service providers receive complete class C network blocks from the RIPE NCC, the RIPE NCC can delegate the reverse registrations for such complete blocks to these local registries. This implies that customers of these service providers no longer have to register their reverse domain mapping with the root, but the service provider have authority over that part of the reverse mapping. This decreases the workload on the INTERNIC and the RIPE NCC, and at the same time increase the service a provider can offer its customers and response times for such additions. However there are some things that need to be examined a bit more closely to avoid confusion and inconsistencies. These issues are covered in the next section. Procedures 1. A secondary nameserver at ns.ripe.net is mandatory for all blocks of class C network numbers delegated in the 193.in-addr.arpa domain. 2. Because of the increasing importance of correct reverse address mapping, for all delegated blocks a good set of secondaries must be defined. There should be at least 2 nameservers for all blocks delegated, excluding the RIPE NCC secondary. 3. All reverse servers for blocks must be reachable from the whole of the Internet. In short, all servers must meet similar connectivity requirements as top-level domain servers. 4. Running the reverse server for class C blocks does not imply that one controls that part of the reverse domain, it only implies that one administers that part of the reverse domain. 5. Before adding individual nets, the administrator of a reverse domain must check wether all servers to be added for these nets are indeed setup properly. 6. There are some serious implications when a customer of a service provider that uses address space out of the service provider class C blocks, moves to another service provider. The service provider cannot force its ex-customer to change network addresses, and will have to continue to provide the appropriate delegation records for reverse mapping of these addresses, even though it is no longer a customer of his. Above procedures are defined to ensure the necessary high availability for the 193 reverse domains, and to minimize confusion. The NCC will ensure fast repsonse times for addition requests, and will in principle update the 193.in-addr.arpa domain at least once per working day. The NCC also suggests that similar procedures are set up for the delegation of reverse zones from the registries to individual organisations.

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Re: 193.in-addr.arpa block delegation procedures (draft)
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet, +43 1 436111 355 19 Mar '93

19 Mar '93

> individual nets inside the block... If you really want to put it in the > database, why not send in an object like: > > domain: 204.193.in-addr.arpa > descr: blah > zone-c: <person> > nserver: <first server> > nserver: <second server> > nserver: ns.ripe.net > .... > I'm really in favour of this approach, because it seems to fit nicely into the system and we can access the information with tools that need not have any special knowledge, as Marten pointed out already. Wilfried.

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FYI: 193.in-addr.arpa delegation
by Marten Terpstra 17 Mar '93

17 Mar '93

Folks, the delegation of 193.in-addr.arpa is a fact. % host -vt any 193.in-addr.arpa 193.in-addr.arpa 518400 IN SOA ns.ripe.net hostmaster.ripe.net ( 100010 ;serial (version) 28800 ;refresh period 7200 ;retry refresh time 604800 ;expiration period 518400 ;default ttl ) 193.in-addr.arpa 518400 IN NS ns.ripe.net 193.in-addr.arpa 518400 IN NS ns.eu.net 193.in-addr.arpa 518400 IN NS ns.uu.net 193.in-addr.arpa 518400 IN NS layon.inria.fr 193.in-addr.arpa 518400 IN NS sunic.sunet.se 193.in-addr.arpa 518400 IN NS munnari.oz.au -Marten ------- Forwarded Message Date: Tue, 16 Mar 93 20:06:13 PST From: bobm(a)nic.ddn.mil (Bob McCollum ) To: Marten.Terpstra(a)ripe.net (Marten Terpstra) cc: markk(a)nic.ddn.mil (Mark Kosters), scottw(a)nic.ddn.mil (Scott Williamso n) Subject: Re: 193.in-addr.arpa updated at the NCC > Ready to go ! > > -Marten Marten, The release has gone out. Everything looked ok from our end. We have made internet history. ;^) Please let us know if you see anything unusual! Thanks! Bob Mc ------- End of Forwarded Message

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