- db-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Severe performance problems with RIPE whois server
by Nick Hilliard 27 Dec '12

27 Dec '12

So the new kid on the block for issuing IRR querys is bgpq3: http://snar.spb.ru/prog/bgpq3/ (Thanks to Job Snijders for pointing it out). Here are some comparative results for bgpq3 and irrtoolset using a random large-ish as-set with ~5000 ASNs: > ubuntu1:/home/nick/bgpq3-0.1.16> time bgpq3 AS-NEOT > /dev/null > 0.144u 0.032s 0:04.26 3.9% 0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w > ubuntu1:/home/nick/trunk/src/peval> time ./peval -h whois.radb.net -protocol irrd AS-NEOT > /dev/null > 8.600u 0.516s 10:14.14 1.4% 0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w > ubuntu1:/home/nick/trunk/src/peval> time ./peval -h whois.ripe.net -protocol ripe AS-NEOT > /dev/null > 2.900u 0.304s 12:21.72 0.4% 0+0k 0+0io 0pf+0w Due to its use of pipelining it can return IRRD query results ridiculously quickly, and it's pretty clear that irrtoolset is being completely trashed by comparison because it doesn't support pipelining. The difference between the RIPE and RADB whois server is related to the fact that the RADB server supports recursive as-set expansion. In fact, a more interesting question is not why bgpq3 is 175 times faster than irrtoolset, but rather why it takes as long as 4.26 seconds to complete an inverse query for the as-set in question. If I did ran a SQL query on a single term with indexed lookups and which returned 50k results, I'd wonder why it was so slow. In this case, it turns out that the answer mostly relates to the amount of data returned (~750k), and the rtt to the whois server from my query box (~150ms), rather than as a result of the query latency. Anyway, it should be clear that for large query sets, the RIPE server is extremely slow because of its lack of command pipelining and lack of support for recursive expansion of certain types of objects. This directly affects INEX because we run a full rebuild of our route server configuration three times daily. Our route server as-set (AS-SET-INEX-RS) contains about 5400 ASNs and the consequent serialisation delays are currently causing our rebuild scripts to take slightly more than 30 minutes to complete. This varies depending on client policies: earlier this year, rebuilds were taking about 2 hours. In fact for performance reasons, we need to query whois.radb.net instead of RIPE for the larger AS-SETs. This is because of the recursive as-set performance issue which affects queries to whois.ripe.net In order to solve this problem, what we'd really love to see is: 1. support for command pipelining 2. support for recursive expansion of as-set to a list of ASNs. 3. support for recursive inverse key expansion of an as-set to a list of prefixes These would mean a massive performance gain for INEX's use case (and a bunch of other IXPs around europe) and #3 would mean that the RIPE whois server could leapfrog IRRD in terms of performance. Would it be possible for the DB people to look into this? Nick

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RIPE NCC Webinars - new dates
by Training Mailbox 21 Dec '12

21 Dec '12

[Apologies for duplicate e-mails] Dear colleagues, We are pleased to announce the launch of new dates for our Webinars for LIRs. The RIPE NCC Webinars are live, one hour online training courses that allow participants to interact with our trainers without leaving their desks. We focus on the topics and issues most important for LIRs. Register now at https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/training/e-learning/webinars Participation is limited to 20 people, so don't hesitate if you want to take part! If you have questions, please email <e-learning(a)ripe.net>. We look forward to seeing you online. Kind regards, RIPE NCC Training Services

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Re: [db-wg] [anti-abuse-wg] RIPE NCC's proposed implementation of Abuse Contact Management in the RIPE Database
by Denis Walker 13 Dec '12

13 Dec '12

Dear Gert and other colleagues, After some off list clarification we see the point you are concerned with. The simplest case where an organisation manages all the abuse for all customers is easy to understand. In the real world this organisation has one or more internet resources and within the organisation there is a function (or role) that handles abuse complaints. So a real world picture is clear. Taking a member organisation as an example: member organisation / \ / \ internet abuse resources role This maps exactly to the new RIPE Database model: member ORGANISATION object / \ / \ INET(6)NUM member abuse objects ROLE object It is easy to see how to find the abuse handling role for any of these internet resources. The problem appears to be with the vision of what happens lower down in a network. After years of modifications the data model of the RIPE Database no longer reflects the real world. The relationships between objects are less than optimal. If you try to think of anything in terms of RIPE Database objects and relationships, it is not always obvious or clear. The implementation of the abuse-c proposal takes one small step to bringing the RIPE Database model closer to reflecting the real world, as outlined in the Database Groups presentation at RIPE 65. When a customer wants to handle abuse for their part of a network, they are taking over part of the management of that internet resource. In reality the customer's situation is the same as the member's. member ORGANISATION object / \ / \ INET(6)NUM abuse objects ROLE object / \ / \ / \ customer ORGANISATION object / \ / \ / \ / \ other INET(6)NUM customer abuse customers object ROLE object INET(6)NUM objects By including the customers ORGANISATION object the same structure is modelled at any level. This is the basic structure of any organisation that manages internet resources. So now it is easy to see how to find this customers abuse handling role and also how to find the abuse handling role for any of the other customers. This structure can be repeated as many times as necessary at any point in a network. We don't have abuse contacts hanging off different object types. The principle of finding the abuse contact is always the same. That is what makes the model simple in all cases. Internet resources includes AUT-NUM objects as well, and an organisation can have multiple top level INET(6)NUM objects, but to keep the diagram simple I ignored them. I hope this helps to explain the reasoning behind this model. To help with practical administration the RIPE NCC will provide some easy to use tools initially so a customers details only need to be entered once and appropriate objects will be created and the references made. To remove this setup for a specific customer just delete the reference to the ORGANISATION object. The extended garbage cleanup process will delete any cluster of ORGANISATION, MNTNER, ROLE, PERSON objects that are unused. We will also provide more extensive tools for managing changes to contact data at any level across multiple objects. Regards, Denis Walker Business Analyst RIPE NCC Database Group On 10/12/2012 14:42, Gert Doering wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, Dec 05, 2012 at 11:10:09AM +0100, Denis Walker wrote: >> If at some point a customer chooses to do their own management of abuse >> handling for their assigned address space you simply create the >> ORGANISATION and abuse ROLE objects for this customer and add the "org:" >> reference to this customers assignment. > > I'm not sure if I find this "simple", to be honest. > > Being able to specify an abuse-c: in the ASSIGNED inet(6)num: object, > and having the RIPE DB software honour that on queries - that is: not > go to the allocation's org->abuse-c - would require less objects to be > created, and thus, less effort and less opportunity for confusion. > > Gert Doering > -- NetMaster >

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RIPE NCC's proposed implementation of Abuse Contact Management in the RIPE Database
by Kaveh Ranjbar 07 Dec '12

07 Dec '12

Dear Colleagues, The RIPE NCC's proposed implementation plan of RIPE policy 563 (policy proposal 2011-06) titled "Abuse Contact Management in the RIPE Database" is as follows: =========== Introduction =========== Abuse Contact Management in the RIPE Database (as defined in RIPE policy document 563) mandates the RIPE NCC to gather and publish abuse contact information for Internet resources provisioned by the RIPE NCC. =========== Approach =========== Abuse handling is generally a role within an organisation and the RIPE NCC is planning to model this relation in the RIPE Database. So the "abuse-c:" attribute will be available in the ORGANISATION object and should reference a ROLE object. When a ROLE object is referenced from an ORGANISATION object by the "abuse-c:" attribute, it must have an "abuse-mailbox:" attribute. All resources allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC are required to have a reference to an ORGANISATION object in the RIPE Database. By adding a single "abuse-c:" attribute to their ORGANISATION object, a resource holder can quickly cover all their resources. All resources that are allocated or assigned by the RIPE NCC and which are subject to and compliant with current resource policies will then either directly reference an abuse contact or will inherit one from the parent resource. The detailed changes to RIPE Database objects and business rules, fine tuning, search options and facilities for quick data entry by RIPE NCC members using the LIR Portal are all described in an article on RIPE Labs: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/kranjbar/implementation-details-of-policy-201… ============ Timeline ============ * Phase 0 - Q1 2013 The RIPE NCC will make internal changes to the RIPE Database and LIR Portal, this should be done by end of Q1 2013. * Phase 1 - Q2 and Q3 2013 The RIPE NCC will ask members to add "abuse-c:" to their member ORGANISATION object at least and will conduct a follow-up on that. RIPE NCC Members will be required to have abuse contact data for their resources when working with our Registration Services department. If a member has not added abuse-c:" to their ORGANISATION object by the end of this phase, the RIPE NCC will automatically add the member's published contact email address as the member's abuse contact. Members can edit this information any time through the LIR Portal. At the end of this phase, all PA allocations and their more specifics will have an abuse contact. * Phase 2 - Q4 2013 to Q3 2014 The RIPE NCC will ask AS Number and PI Resource holders to add abuse contact information to their ORGANISATION objects. If some resource holders have not added their abuse contact data by the end of this phase, the RIPE NCC will add the published abuse contact data for the responsible LIR to the ORGANISATION object listed in the resource. Any resource holder with access to the related object can always edit this information. At this point, ALL resources in the RIPE Database which are subject to and compliant with RIPE policies will have accessible abuse contact information. Please let us know if you like this proposal or have any feedback or ideas for improvement of this implementation proposal. Regards, Kaveh Ranjbar, RIPE NCC Database Group Manager

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Implementation of 2011-06
by Brian Nisbet 05 Dec '12

05 Dec '12

Colleagues, Hopefully by now you have all read the mail from the NCC Database Group regarding the implementation plan for Policy 2011-06 sent on the 15th of November 2012. The Co-Chairs of the Anti-Abuse and Database WGs have conferred and we feel that while there have been a few questions regarding this plan, these have been answered and there were no objections so consensus has been reached in this regard. With this support from the community in mind, the Co-Chairs have asked the NCC to begin work on this implementation and to keep both WGs updated on their progress. As always, if you have any questions, please do raise them on the mailing lists. Brian, On behalf of the Co-Chairs of the AA-WG & DB-WG

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RIPE NCC Training Courses January-March 2013 - BG, DE, UK, PT, NL, SA, DK, UA, LV, KG
by Training Mailbox 26 Nov '12

26 Nov '12

Dear Colleagues, Our training team travels the RIPE NCC service region to deliver training courses to our members without any additional cost. Over the next few months, we'll be in Sofia, Düsseldorf, London, Lisbon, Milan, Amsterdam, Riyadh, Copenhagen, Kiev, Riga, Bishkek. Visit the following page to register and to check which training courses we are giving in your area: https://lirportal.ripe.net/training/courses The RIPE NCC delivers the following training courses: - LIR Training Course - IPv6 for LIRs Training Course - Routing Registry and Resource Certification Training Course For more information visit: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/training/courses With kind regards, Rumy Spratley-Kanis Training Services Manager

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RIPE NCC Webinars - new dates
by Training Mailbox 29 Oct '12

29 Oct '12

[Apologies for duplicate e-mails] Dear colleagues, We are pleased to announce the launch of new dates for our Webinars for LIRs. The RIPE NCC Webinars are live, one hour online training courses that allow participants to interact with our trainers without leaving their desks. We focus on the topics and issues most important for LIRs. Register now at https://www.ripe.net/lir-services/training/e-learning/webinars Participation is limited to 20 people, so don't hesitate if you want to take part! If you have questions, please email <e-learning(a)ripe.net>. We look forward to seeing you online. Kind regards, RIPE NCC Training Services

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RIPE NCC Training Courses April-June 2012 - IL, BE, IS, PL, RU, FI, NL, DE, ES, HR
by Training Mailbox 08 Oct '12

08 Oct '12

Dear Colleagues, Our training team travels the RIPE NCC service region to deliver training courses to our members without any additional cost. Over the next few months, we'll be in Tel Aviv, Brussels, Reykjavik, Belfast, Gdansk, Yekaterinburg, Helsinki, Amsterdam, Munich, Seville and Croatia. Visit the following page to register and to check which training courses we are giving in your area: https://lirportal.ripe.net/training/courses The RIPE NCC delivers the following training courses: - LIR Training Course - IPv6 for LIRs Training Course - Routing Registry Training Course For more information visit: http://www.ripe.net/lir-services/training/courses With kind regards, Rumy Spratley-Kanis Training Services Manager

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Draft Minutes from RIPE65
by Nigel Titley 26 Sep '12

26 Sep '12

Please find the minutes of the RIPE 65 DB-WG meeting attached. Comments to me Nigel

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RIPE65 DB-WG Draft Agenda V3
by Wilfried Woeber 25 Sep '12

25 Sep '12

Dear DB-WG folks, Chairpersons, "Meeting"! This is the 3rd draft of an agenda for the DB-WG at RIPE65 in Amsterdam, September 26, 2012. For time slot allocations please refer to the most up-to-date meeting plan at http://ripe65.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan The DB-WG Meeting is scheduled for *Wednesday*, starting at 09:00 local time / 07:00 UTC in the morning. The length of our timeslot is 90 Minutes. The overall (draft) RIPE 65 meeting outline is already available at https://ripe65.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/ Please feel free to propose additional topics to be discussed! I'd also suggest that you submit your points of view regarding the topics on the proposed agenda on the mailing list, preferably before the WG meeting's start :-) Best regards, hope to see you soon here in Amsterdam, Wilfried. ________________________________________________________________________ A. Administrative Matters . Welcome . select scribe . finalise agenda . approval of minutes from previous WG meeting(s) . review of action list B. Data Base Update (Kaveh Ranjbar, RIPE NCC) C. Stability of interfaces/output of DB-Machinery (Rüdiger Volk, DTAG) D. Discussion GeoLoc data in the DB (WW144) - status, statistics, use - use / usfulness? E. History view of DB objects (Daniel Karrenberg/Vesna Manojlovic, RIPE NCC) see: https://labs.ripe.net/Members/dfk/registration-history-for-members-a-demo F. Status update on IETF WEIRDS activities (Olaf Kolkman, NLnetLabs/IETF) - attempt to agree on a new "whois" protcol set and semantics Y. Input from other Working Groups and/or Task Forces - impact of 2011-06 implementation on the DB facilities (Rüdiger V., WW144) Z. AOB ________________________________________________________________________ 25.09.2012 12:20 UTC

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