- db-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Fwd: Re: [ripe-list] Re: beIN && RIPE NCC && Notorious Markets
by Nick Hilliard 09 Oct '25

09 Oct '25

Maybe add some comments in whois output to highlight which fields in which objects are authoritative? Or if there were a page put up on https://trust.ripe.net/ which explains this in more detail? There's a lot of head-boggle going on here, even for people who are familiar with whois output. Nick -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [ripe-list] Re: beIN && RIPE NCC && Notorious Markets Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2025 08:11:57 +0200 From: Daniel Karrenberg <dfk(a)karrenberg.net> To: Nick Hilliard <nick(a)foobar.org> CC: Andrew Campling <andrew.campling(a)419.consulting>, ripe-list(a)ripe.net Maybe it is finally time to make it *really obvious* even to the most ignorant which RIPE DB objects are authoritative info and which are not? --- Sent from a handheld device. > On 8. Oct 2025, at 19:49, Nick Hilliard <nick(a)foobar.org> wrote: > > Andrew Campling wrote on 06/10/2025 15:27: >> Irrespective of any view regarding rights holders, the lack of effective KYC procedures is also a problem in combating both malicious and illegal content. For example, you may be surprised that the Internet Watch Foundation finds a large percentage of illegal CSAM images hosted within Europe (here <https://www.iwf.org.uk/annual-data-insights-report-2024/data-and-insights/g…>) – for transparency, I’m an IWF trustee. I am not a lawyer but I understand that KYC is a requirement under the EU’s NIS2 Directive. >> In my view, extending effective KYC processes across the ecosystem will add friction, making the life of malicious actors more difficult. > > the ripe ncc already implements kyc for its members and direct assignment resource holders. You can't get a PI assignment without validating your identity, and there are comparable processes for businesses who wish to become LIRs. These are hard-enforced. If you don't comply, your application will be rejected. > > In addition to this, all LIRs are subject to a periodic Assisted Registry Check. > > The BEIN letter seems to confuse data about RIPE members / direct assignees with general end users of ISPs. > > The confusion may be happening because the RIPE database is a mixture of several different categories of data. Some of the data is authoritative (i.e. RIPE LIR and Direct Assignments) and some is non-authoritative (i.e. LIR assignments). A good deal of the non authoritative data is of very poor quality, but the authoritative data is all subject to RIPE KYC processes and regularly audited. Mixing these two data sets up does not benefit anyone. > > It's the job of the ISP to ensure that they have KYC processes with their end users. > > Nick > ----- > To unsubscribe from this mailing list or change your subscription options, please visit: https://mailman.ripe.net/mailman3/lists/ripe-list.ripe.net/ > As we have migrated to Mailman 3, you will need to create an account with the email matching your subscription before you can change your settings. More details at: https://www.ripe.net/membership/mail/mailman-3-migration/

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Clarification of Database documentation
by denis walker 06 Oct '25

06 Oct '25

Colleagues Some documentation issues were raised during a discussion of contact methods. They have nothing really to do with the issue of contacts so I have started a new thread on the documentation. It is not the most urgent issue regarding the RIPE Database so you may not care about any of this. But documentation should be correct or it is a waste of time having it. If no one comments, maybe the chairs can pass judgement. Three issues are raised here: -Attribute properties -Description of AGGREGATED-BY-LIR -Missing attribute Attribute properties For years we only described attributes as mandatory, optional or generated. But there are some attributes that do not exactly fit any of these categories. Mandatory means that every instance of this object type must have this attribute present. Optional means it is entirely your choice if you include it or not. Some attributes sit in between these two options. They don't need to be in every instance of the objects, but sometimes it is not your choice to leave it out. There are business rules built into the software that determine when certain attributes must be present or if you can ignore it. Examples include abuse-c and org. In most instances of an INETNUM object the org attribute is optional. But if it is an allocation, then it must be included. So it is not truly mandatory or optional. When I re-wrote the database documentation in 2014 I tried to cover this middle ground giving these attributes the property of being 'required' [1]. But as Ed just pointed out, the word 'required' suggests it is 'mandatory'. Certainly for a non native English speaker it is easy to confuse these meanings. So it is not the best word to use. The only word I can think of that might reflect the true meaning of these attributes is 'variable'. Sometimes it must be there, sometimes you can choose. There will be another document or policy that explains the business rules that determine how it is used. So unless someone has a better suggestion for naming this attribute property, I recommend that we adopt 'variable' in the documentation and in the templates returned by a whois query with -t and -v. Description of AGGREGATED-BY-LIR This is described in both the database documentation [2] and in the address policy [3]. Neither is an accurate and clear description and they are both different. In the address policy it says "The purpose and the contact details must be consistent throughout the whole assignment.". This confuses the terms 'aggregation' and 'assignments'. An aggregation is a collection of 'multiple' assignments. So you must either refer to the aggregation or the collection of assignments.You cannot refer to a single assignment. This is not just splitting hairs. For a non native English speaker new to the database, they are reading this to try to work out what this means. The current wording suggests the aggregation represents a single block of assigned address space, rather than a collection of multiple address blocks, possibly of different sizes. The purpose of an assignment is not publicly defined or documented anywhere. What is the purpose of a block of assigned address space? Can it be 'used by an End User's public network' or 'used by the LIR for their own infrastructure'? But then these are two different purposes. So by definition you should not be able to aggregate a mix of End User's address space with an LIR's own infrastructure. Is that the case? How does anyone outside of the LIR know? Should the purpose be documented in a remarks attribute? Should an aggregation have a "purpose:" attribute? It seems like there was such a rush to make individual assignments optional, the actual details of the aggregation were not very well thought through. What does "the contact details must be consistent" mean? All the assignments have a tech-c? All the tech-c references are to a ROLE object or a PERSON object? They all include an email address? They all refer to the same ROLE object? All the different ROLE objects reference the same email address? It is not good enough to say "but we all know what it means". A new LIR, new to the policy documents, new to the database may not know what this means. That is why they are reading it. There is no explicit mention that the multiple assignments can all be of different sizes. Unless the "assignment-size:" attribute is included. Is it sufficient for all these details to be explained in the RIPE Database documentation, that is only advisory? Possibly leaving the policy statement so vague that it is easy to misunderstand or misinterpret. Either way, all of these points need to be explained, somewhere. I haven't even touched on rules that should have so obviously been documented somewhere. For example, if aggregations are created retrospectively, the boundary between aggregations within a single allocation must match the boundaries of the encompassed assignments. If the assignments are deleted before creating the aggregations then the software cannot enforce this and there is no way for anyone to verify this was done. The whole concept of aggregation was badly specified. But that is another story... Missing attribute There is no mention in the documentation of the INETNUM or INET6NUM attribute 'prefixlen'. References [1] https://docs.db.ripe.net/RIPE-Database-Structure/Attribute-Properties [2] https://docs.db.ripe.net/RPSL-Object-Types/Descriptions-of-Primary-Objects#… [3[ https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-826/#70-types-of-address-space cheers denis

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RIPE Database Release 1.119
by Edward Shryane 01 Oct '25

01 Oct '25

Dear colleagues, RIPE Database release 1.119 has been deployed to the Release Candidate environment for testing. We plan to deploy to production on Wednesday 1st October. This release contains the following main changes : * Support multiple maintainers in scope (#1866) * Fix indentation when Serialising JSON to Avoid Indentation Bug (#1855) * Always add Warning When using Password Authentication (#1859) * Return Not implemented in case of e164 ENUM domain (#1846) * Allow empty From: address in SMTP request (#1841) * title should be type in RDAP relations (#1842) * Retry on Failure during GRS (mirror) import download (#1837) The full list of changes is visible in the source repository: https://github.com/RIPE-NCC/whois/compare/505c5f7...1c439eb The release notes are on the website: https://docs.db.ripe.net/Release-Notes#ripe-database-release-1-119 More information on the Release Candidate environment can be found on our website: https://docs.db.ripe.net/Release-Notes/ The data in the Release Candidate environment is a dummified copy of production from 15th September. Please let us know if you find any issues with this release in the RC environment. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC

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NWI proposal: adjusting contact method requirements and adding new methods
by Leo Vegoda 30 Sep '25

30 Sep '25

Hi, A while back Cynthia, Dmitry and I looked at the possibility of adding new contact methods. Dmitry presented this at RIPE 88: https://ripe88.ripe.net/archives/video/1347/ I've tried to put this into a more complete NWI and offer it for discussion. The TLDR is: 1) Align the requirement levels for contact methods 2) Let people use new contact methods, like Signal We hope that by offering the methods people want to use, the contact data in the RIPE Database can be as useful as is possible. Kind regards, Leo ## Problem statement The requirement level for contact methods for person and role objects are inconsistent. This is both confusing and inconvenient. This is a proposal to add flexibility to the contact methods offered at the database level. It is not a proposal to change policy requirements for contact methods. This proposal is limited to admin-c and tech-c contact types. Our world offers more contact methods than were available when the currently supported methods were chosen for the RIPE Database. User acceptance of these methods differ by country and generation. Whether this proposal is accepted or not, it is good to review the rationale for these rules and have an updated rationale published. 1. Person and role objects have four contact methods. A postal address is mandatory for both. A phone is mandatory for person objects but not role objects. E-mail is mandatory for role but not person objects. 2. Postal mail is less useful than it was 20 years ago. Some countries are reducing the frequency of postal deliveries. And geographically distributed teams find postal mail less useful. 3. The telephone is becoming less useful, too. Call volumes are dropping and popular psychology publications explain why calls are less likely to be answered: - https://www.statista.com/statistics/551035/finland-call-volume-by-type-of-c… - https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckg8jllq283o - https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/un-numb/202405/why-gen-zers-keep-… ## Proposal We should provide contacts with more flexibility. We should also add new options that were not available when the RIPE Database's contact methods were last reviewed. The three elements below follow on from NWI-15, which is based on the RIPE Database Requirements Task Force recommendations for what should be published about resource holders. The registry needs to retain the full set of required data. The DBTF report did not mention contacts methods for the resources. 1. Align the contact method requirements between role and person objects used in admin-c and tech-c attributes. Make all contact methods optional for the public RIPE Database as long as one is chosen. There is no point publishing a contact method that will not be used. That would just waste the time of people trying to make contact. 2. Add support for new contact methods in the RIPE Database, including SIP (RFC 3969), Signal, Telegram, and WhatsApp. 3. Add support for RFC 8605 (ICANN Extensions for the Registration Data Access Protocol) and show the HTTPS intermediary and/or private URI where one is available. Making these changes will require updates to the RPSL and RDAP publication methods. The RIPE NCC should manage the specifics of the design and implementation. ## Recommendation for Impact Assessment The impact assessment provided by the RIPE NCC should note any contact method requirements specified in policy. It should also note where the policy does not specify a contact method requirement. The RIPE NCC might want to note the impact of enforcing policy requirements when more user choice is offered at the database layer.

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RIPE 91 draft agenda & call for presentations
by David Tatlisu 20 Sep '25

20 Sep '25

Hi Everybody, RIPE 91 in Bucharest, Romania, will start in about four weeks. Our session will start at 9:00 in the side room on Thursday, 23 October. We still have a fairly open agenda and would love to have you present. If you are interested in presenting, please contact the working group chairs at db-wg-chairs(a)ripe.net. Please take a look at the NWIs to foster good discussion at the meeting. The NWIs are viewable at https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/db/numbered-work-items/ Below is the current draft agenda; please feel free to offer feedback as appropriate. Best regards, Peter and David DB-WG Chairs A. Introduction - 15 min Welcome Scribe Agenda B. NWI Review - 15 mins, WG Chairs C. Operational Update - 30 mins. Edward Shryane, RIPE NCC D. [ YOUR PRESENTATION COULD BE HERE ] - 10-30 minutes, WG Chairs Z. AOB (open discussion)

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FMP remark
by Miguel Mosquera 19 Aug '25

19 Aug '25

Dear colleagues, After we removed inactive MD5 passwords from maintainers, most of these objects have no auth attributes. This is why tomorrow we plan to add the remark "Use Forgot Maintainer Password to recover access to this object, see https://apps.db.ripe.net/db-web-ui/fmp" to maintainers with no authentication attributes (approximately 9k). Please let us know if anyone does not agree with this update. Best Regards Miguel RIPE NCC

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RIPE Database OAuth 2.0 release
by Mahesh Aggarwal 13 Aug '25

13 Aug '25

Dear colleagues, We are pleased to inform that starting this week, RIPE NCC members can use OAuth 2.0 to authenticate applications that interact with the RIPE Database. Please refer to this article for further information : https://labs.ripe.net/author/adonis_stergiopoulos/oauth-20-available-for-th… Please let us know if you have any questions regarding this. Regards Mahesh Aggarwal RIPE NCC

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RDAP for e164.arpa
by Cynthia Revström 07 Aug '25

07 Aug '25

Hi Ed and DB-WG, I just noticed that the RIPE DB RDAP interface returns a 500 error when querying for ENUM domains[1] (except for specifically the top level e164.arpa domain, which results in a 400 error). This seems to be due to an assumption that all domains in the RIPE DB are reverse DNS domains for IP addresses, which is not the case as ENUM domains are also in there. Is this an intentional decision or was this just an oversight? If it was just an oversight, consider this a bug report. :) If it was an intentional decision then I would be interested in hearing what the reasoning was. [1]: Example: https://rdap.db.ripe.net/domain/6.4.e164.arpa -Cynthia

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Whois Release 1.118.1
by Edward Shryane 04 Aug '25

04 Aug '25

Dear colleagues, RIPE Database release 1.118.1 has been released to the PRODUCTION environment. Unfortunately a regression was found in the 1.118 release that was causing some route(6) object queries and updates via the REST API to fail: https://github.com/RIPE-NCC/whois/pull/1843 We have now deployed a fix for this regression, with no other changes from the 1.118 release. We did not wait for the usual 2 week testing period in the RC environment because this was an unintentional change and was impacting some of our users. The exact changes are available in the source repository: https://github.com/RIPE-NCC/whois/compare/505c5f7a...whois_1118_1_release?e… The release notes are on the website: https://docs.db.ripe.net/Release-Notes#ripe-database-release-1-118-1 We apologise for the inconvenience and thanks to the users for reporting this issue. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC

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Whois Release 1.118
by Miguel Mosquera 29 Jul '25

29 Jul '25

Dear colleagues, RIPE Database release 1.118 has been deployed to the Release Candidate environment for testing. We plan to deploy to production on Tuesday 29th July. Whois release 1.118 contains the following changes : Resources : * Add prefixlen Attribute to Inet(6)num (#1816) * LIR-PARTITIONED PA inetnum status is not valid under ALLOCATED UNSPECIFIED (#1825) * Run RIR Authoritative Resources Task Every Hour and Import Data Only When Updated (#1749) * Removing mbrs-by-ref maintainer from set causes aut-num update containing member-of to fail (#1770) RDAP RIR Search: * Implemented administrative status on RDAP lookup but not rir-search (yet) (#1778, #1730, #1722) * Remove HTTP status code from RDAP response "title" element. (#1777) ACL: * Do not apply accounting for an Authenticated Maintainer's own Objects (#1723) The full list of changes is visible in the source repository: https://github.com/RIPE-NCC/whois/compare/fba36664...505c5f7a The release notes are on the website: https://docs.db.ripe.net/Release-Notes/#ripe-database-release-1-118 More information on the Release Candidate environment can be found on our website: https://docs.db.ripe.net/Release-Notes/ The data in the Release Candidate environment is a dummified copy of production from 14th July. Please let us know if you find any issues with this release in the RC environment. Regards Miguel Herrán RIPE NCC

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