January 2023 - db-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Using the RIPE Database for IPAM
by denis walker 04 Oct '23

04 Oct '23

Colleagues Do you use the RIPE Database as your IPAM solution? If so, read on.... The RIPE NCC has done a brief review of the recommendations made by the DB Task Force (DBTF). You can find it here: https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/tf/rdb-requirements-tf/initial-analys… There is one point in the summary that I disagree with: One recommendation can be implemented immediately by the RIPE NCC: - 3. Using the RIPE Database as an IPAM solution The recommendation from the DBTF was: "The task force recommends limiting and discouraging the use of the RIPE Database as an enterprise IPAM solution." This has not yet been discussed by the community and there is no consensus on this recommendation. So the RIPE NCC should not be doing anything to implement this recommendation. There are a number of points relating to this. The first BoF held by the DBTF had 46 participants. They had some polls about IPAM: Where do you hold your canonical IP address assignment details? (13 answers) Internal database or IPAM system (5 - 38%) RIPE Database (5 - 38%) Internal database for detailed assignments and RIPE database for allocations (3 - 23%) What should we do about the IPAM use of the RIPE Database? (12 answers) We should discourage it (3-25%) We should tolerate it but provide restrictions and best practices (5-42%) We should promote it and facilitate it (4-33%) During the BoF some comments were also made on this: Shane's comment "IPAM seems to be an important thing" Nathalie said about 50% of people attending training courses over a number of years said they use the RIPE DB for IPAM. Also trainees said open source IPAM solutions often pull data out of the RIPE DB but have no functionality to push data to the RIPE DB. During the presentation by the DBTF in the DB-WG session at RIPE 83 Shane said (on IPAM): "if you had very light requirements for IPAM then maybe it is OK, but it's not really what it's for" "unable to find out if this [response] was based on misunderstanding of the question" "we think there are probably good ways to go forward with that, for example making hooks so that external IPAM solutions can hook into it...that makes sense, there are certainly many commercial vendors that make IPAM products who would be happy to use hooks, there are many ways that third parties could use this but probably not a requirement" So it looks like there are very mixed views on the use of the RIPE Database for IPAM. Some people also expressed surprise that so many people use the database for IPAM. It is clear that we don't actually understand who, how and why people use the database for IPAM. We need a better understanding of the how and why and the number of users doing this before we can make any decision about discouraging or encouraging this use of the database. Even to consider if IPAM should be defined as a purpose of the database. As we are talking about it, maybe now is the time to start this discussion. If you use the RIPE Database as your IPAM solution maybe you can offer some more details. cheers denis co-chair DB-WG

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NWI-14 Authenticating References to Objects
by denis walker 19 Jun '23

19 Jun '23

Colleagues The chairs propose creating NWI-14 for expanding the optional use of the "mnt-ref:" attribute to protect objects from accidental or intentional mis-representation of responsibility. See slide 14 of this presentation for the problem definition: https://ripe78.ripe.net/presentations/129-RIPE78-Operational-Update.pdf We ask the RIPE NCC to add NWI-14 to the list. cheers denis co-chair DB-WG

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Proposed Service Criticality Form
by Edward Shryane 12 May '23

12 May '23

Dear Colleagues, During RIPE 84 in May, we discussed the Service Criticality Framework. We mentioned that we would like the Database Working Group's input on the criticality rating for the RIPE Database. Thank you to the Co-chairs for asking the working group for input in July with the original form: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/db-wg/2022-July/007527.html Since we have yet to receive any feedback so far, we plan to share our proposed completed form with the working group on Monday, 12 December. We hope that this will invite more input. Regards Ed Shryane RIPE NCC

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ORGANISATION country code
by denis walker 23 Mar '23

23 Mar '23

Colleagues We have a number of outstanding issues from RIPE 85 so let's start with NWI-10. Ed said in his update, "Country code is now editable in organisations without co-maintained resources" I think this is a really bad idea. The country codes entered into ORGANISATION objects by the RIPE NCC are well defined, verified and maintained by the RIPE NCC. If we allow users to edit this field in other ORGANISATION objects, the values they enter will be undefined, unverified and meaningless. Just like the country code in resource objects. I don't think we should allow more meaningless data to be added to the RIPE Database. Even worse, we are mixing well defined data with meaningless data in the same attribute in the same object. This will end up with some people trusting all of this data and some people not trusting any of it...confusion. I suggest we don't allow users to enter any data into this attribute and remove any data that may have already been entered. If there is a need for resource holders to enter a country code in ORGANISATION objects set up for end users, then let's define a specific attribute for that with a well defined meaning. Your thoughts are welcome... cheers denis co-chair DB-WG

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RIPE-NONAUTH AS-SET bug fix
by denis walker 20 Feb '23

20 Feb '23

Colleagues There is some support for the idea that if AUT-NUM objects in RIPE-NONAUTH authorise the creation of AS-SET objects, these set objects will also be in RIPE-NONAUTH. There is also support for this to be considered as a bug from the implementation of 'NWI-5 Out of region ROUTE(6)/AUT-NUM objects'. So existing AS-SET objects whose creation was authorised by one of these RIPE-NONAUTH ASNs can be moved to RIPE-NONAUTH as part of a bug fix. Does anyone have any objections to such a 'bug fix'? cheers denis co-chair DB-WG On Thu, 1 Dec 2022 at 19:34, Nick Hilliard <nick(a)foobar.org> wrote: > > Cynthia Revström wrote on 30/11/2022 22:59: > > I am not sure if this feature is used or not however I think this is a > > very good reason to not go forward with a clean-up (at least until we > > have properly evaluated things). > > We will probably have to figure out some other way to deal with > > objects that are currently causing issues I think. > > the "feature" is used, yes. Some providers have customers in different > RIR service regions. Some organisations have address space registered > in different RIR service regions. It's impossible to avoid in many > situations. > > What's important right now is to close off the option to create new > unqualified as-set names, and to move the existing qualified non-RIPE > ASxxxx:as-set objects from source: RIPE to source: RIPE-NONAUTH. > > Denis was correct that this was a bug during the implementation of NWI-5 > (not ripe-731 which I mistakenly quoted). > > After that, we can afford to spend a bit of time looking at potential > clean-up options. There are 1590 empty as-set objects. 700 of these > haven't been updated in the last 5 years, and some going back 20 years. > > I wouldn't lose too much sleep about deleting empty as-sets. Contact > people, set a timeout, and then delete. Worst case, people can > reference new, qualified as-sets. > > Nick >

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ASNs present in a few AS-SETs in RIPE
by Peter Potvin 30 Jan '23

30 Jan '23

Hello, It has come to our attention that a couple of our newly-allocated ASNs are present in a few AS-SETs within the RIPE database which we should not be present in, and we are unsure how to successfully get them removed from these AS-SETs. If someone could please let us know how we can get them removed, that would be appreciated. Regards, Peter Potvin | Executive Director ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Accuris Technologies Ltd.* 56A Mill St E, Unit #470, Acton, ON L7J 1H3 Canada Email: peter.potvin(a)accuristechnologies.ca Office: +1 (877) 352-6105 Network Operations Centre: +1 (877) 321-1662

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Re: [db-wg] ORGANISATION country code
by Ángel González Berdasco 24 Jan '23

24 Jan '23

Hello Denis Sorry to ask but, how is this country code used / what their meaning when it is entered by RIPE NCC itself? It appears to me that the challenge on "what to place" would be the same. Regards -- INCIBE-CERT - Spanish National CSIRT https://www.incibe-cert.es/ PGP keys: https://www.incibe-cert.es/en/what-is-incibe-cert/pgp-public-keys ==================================================================== INCIBE-CERT is the Spanish National CSIRT designated for citizens, private law entities, other entities not included in the subjective scope of application of the "Ley 40/2015, de 1 de octubre, de Régimen Jurídico del Sector Público", as well as digital service providers, operators of essential services and critical operators under the terms of the "Real Decreto-ley 12/2018, de 7 de septiembre, de seguridad de las redes y sistemas de información" that transposes the Directive (EU) 2016/1148 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 6 July 2016 concerning measures for a high common level of security of network and information systems across the Union. ==================================================================== In compliance with the General Data Protection Regulation of the EU (Regulation EU 2016/679, of 27 April 2016) we inform you that your personal and corporate data (as well as those included in attached documents); and e-mail address, may be included in our records for the purpose derived from legal, contractual or pre-contractual obligations or in order to respond to your queries. You may exercise your rights of access, correction, cancellation, portability, limitationof processing and opposition under the terms established by current legislation and free of charge by sending an e-mail to dpd(a)incibe.es. The Data Controller is S.M.E. Instituto Nacional de Ciberseguridad de España, M.P., S.A. More information is available on our website: https://www.incibe.es/proteccion-datos-personales and https://www.incibe.es/registro-actividad. ====================================================================

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Extending the consultation period for service criticality
by Razvan Oprea 18 Jan '23

18 Jan '23

Dear colleagues, Your input about the criticality rating of the RIPE Database is important. Keeping in mind the busy end of year, and the holidays, we have extended our consultation period until 22 January 2023. Wishing you all a happy new year. Regards, Razvan C. Oprea RIPE NCC

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Performance Evaluation 2022
by Fallon Albrecht 05 Jan '23

05 Jan '23

Hi Ed, Do you have any feedback positive/improvements over my performance in 2022? Cheers, Fallon

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