June 2000 - db-wg - mailman.ripe.net

Re: Deletion of German domains
by Simon Leinen 28 Jun '00

28 Jun '00

>>>>> "mn" == mike norris <mike.norris(a)heanet.ie> writes: > What ever happened to the auto-referral mechanism, whereby a query > about a moved object could be referred onward to the appropriate > whois server? Such a mechanism has been in place for a while. The domains under .ch have been using it since December 1998. $ whois -h whois.ripe.net '-r -R -T domain ch' [...] domain: ch [...] refer: SIMPLE whois.nic.ch changed: gottsponer(a)switch.ch 19981223 In the meantime there has been an improved version of the referral mechanism which provides the IP address (or hostname?) of the original requestor to the delegated Whois server, which can be useful for logging/rate limiting purposes. It's certainly documented somewhere on the RIPE Web server. -- Simon Leinen simon(a)babar.switch.ch SWITCH http://www.switch.ch/misc/leinen/ Who is General Failure & why's he reading my disk?

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registry handle issues [was: Deletion of German domains]
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 28 Jun '00

28 Jun '00

Andre, Randy, wrt handles we have to declare defeat, unfortunately. One of the last major (undeclared :-) battles we lost was the migration of data from the "InterNIC model" environment (IP addresses and gTLDs) into, eventually, the NSI domain stuff and the ARIN IP stuff. Not only was this the biggest case of handle and object duplication into 2 different regsitries (to my knowledge without an announcement being made or the victims being warned), but the then implicit convention of deriving Handle-"RegistryCode" suffixes (i.e. XY12-RIPE, AB89-APNIC) was broken by the invention or things like -NET -DOM -ROLE and the like. A while ago, there were a few ideas and proposals floating around (like using a DNS-like approach: WW144-RIPE.NET or WW144-NIC.AT), but as to my knowledge, no consensus was developing. Requiescat in pacem. Sigh. Btw, I'm really looking forward to the point in time when we'll see the first clash in registry names. That's going to be the beginning of the end of mirrors.... Wilfried. > > given > > whois -h whois.ripe.net dom.ain.de > > returning <handle>-DENIC, so i then follow with > > whois -h whois.ripe.net <handle>-DENIC > > i can only conclude, givem the first quoted paragraph above, that the data > must be manually entered in both databases or that ripe mirrors denic's > database. > Seems like we need a referal meganisme for nic-handles? Regards, Andre --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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domain referrals [was: Deletion of German domains]
by Wilfried Woeber, UniVie/ACOnet 28 Jun '00

28 Jun '00

Oli, the IS stuff looks *very* good. With some other domains (i.e. CH :-) there are still loose ends) Here's the RIPE objects: > wripe -RT domain is % Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/db/copyright.html domain: is descr: Top level domain for Iceland descr: Internet Iceland - INTIS [ ... ] admin-c: HJ18 tech-c: MO33 zone-c: MO33 [ ... ] refer: ripe whois.isnet.is changed: marius(a)isgate.is 19931123 changed: marius(a)isgate.is 19970728 source: RIPE person: Helgi Jonsson [ ... ] changed: marius(a)isnet.is 20000218 source: RIPE person: Marius Olafsson [ ... ] changed: marius(a)isnet.is 20000218 source: RIPE and here's the referred-to output: > wripe -T domain is % Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/db/copyright.html The object shown below is NOT in the RIPE database. It has been obtained by querying a remote server: (whois.isnet.is) at port 43. To see the object stored in the RIPE database use the -R flag in your query. % Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.isnet.is/whois/copyright.html % % Útgáfuréttur áskilinn. Sjá http://www.isnet.is/whois/utgafurettur.html domain: is descr: Top level domain for Iceland descr: Internet Iceland - INTIS [ ... ] changed: marius(a)isgate.is 19931123 changed: marius(a)isgate.is 19970728 source: IS person: Helgi Jonsson [ ... ] changed: hostmaster(a)isnet.is 20000323 source: IS person: Marius Olafsson [ ... ] changed: marius(a)isnet.is 19950201 changed: hostmaster(a)isnet.is 20000323 source: IS As the referral type is RIPE, even passing flags like -r to suppress recursion is working fine: > wripe -rT domain is % Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/db/copyright.html The object shown below is NOT in the RIPE database. It has been obtained by querying a remote server: (whois.isnet.is) at port 43. To see the object stored in the RIPE database use the -R flag in your query. % Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.isnet.is/whois/copyright.html % % Útgáfuréttur áskilinn. Sjá http://www.isnet.is/whois/utgafurettur.html domain: is descr: Top level domain for Iceland [ ... ] changed: marius(a)isgate.is 19931123 changed: marius(a)isgate.is 19970728 source: IS %%% End of referred query result CH for example is working in principle, but the remote server still refuses to serve data for it's own TLD root ;-) > wripe -T domain ch % Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/db/copyright.html The object shown below is NOT in the RIPE database. It has been obtained by querying a remote server: (whois.nic.ch) at port 43. To see the object stored in the RIPE database use the -R flag in your query. Malformed query string <------------------------------ %%% End of referred query result The RIPE-DB object looks fine, though: > wripe -rRT domain ch % Rights restricted by copyright. See http://www.ripe.net/ripencc/pub-services/db/copyright.html domain: ch descr: Switzerland admin-c: MS219-RIPE tech-c: WH1101 zone-c: WH1101 nserver: domreg.nic.ch nserver: merapi.switch.ch nserver: ns1.ip-plus.net nserver: ns.eu.net nserver: ns.uu.net nserver: dns.princeton.edu nserver: ctina.ar nserver: ns.apnic.net remarks: Website: http://www.nic.ch/ remarks: a complete list of the ch-subdomains can be found via remarks: ftp://ftp.switch.ch/registry/CH.domains mnt-by: CH-DOMREG mnt-lower: CH-DOMREG refer: SIMPLE whois.nic.ch changed: gottsponer(a)switch.ch 19981223 source: RIPE It would be a nice project for the CENTR tech folks to check all the referred-to servers for those obvious things?! Wilfried.

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RE: Deletion of German domains
by mike.norris＠heanet.ie 28 Jun '00

28 Jun '00

> > > No, this is a working agreement about technical details. It > > > is based on the community consensus that domain related > > > information (excluding reverse delegations) should be moved > > > from the RIPE Database to the respective ccTLD databases. > > > > Fair enough, but community consensus must be recorded. Was > > this consensus achieved at RIPE 36 and we're still waiting for > > the relevant minutes? > > Frankly, I don't see what the great fuss is about, Mike. No great fuss, Håvard, just a request for a reminder of the original action point leading to this operational change. Andrei has now provided this. > > I think this has been discussed in the CENTR arena, and if I'm > not mistaken there's been developed a consensus between the RIPE > NCC and the CENTR folks for the preferred way forward. The RIPE > DB's primary purpose isn't to serve as a repository for domain > objects and related person objects -- I have for a long time had > the impression that this has been rather obvious, and that a > better solution for all parties would be preferable (less work > for the CC registries to maintain the RIPE DB data, tighter > coupling to the underlying registry database, costs for running > the system where they can be accounted for, etc. etc.) Indeed, and this has been raised in the db-wg many times in the past, even in pre-CENTR days. It would make sense if other CC registries could adopt the practice of .nl, .no, .de etc when it comes to providing a database of their registered domains and ancillary data. Regards. Mike

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RE: Deletion of German domains
by mike.norris＠heanet.ie 28 Jun '00

28 Jun '00

> According to the agreement between RIPE NCC and DENIC we plan Has this agreement been published? > to delete German (.de) domain objects from RIPE whois database > on June 28th. From then on, information about German domains will > be available from DENIC's whois server, whois.nic.de. While speed and efficiency are to be commended, this is rather short notice, isn't it? From the mail on 8th June, I understood that DENIC would need between one and two months after moving the domain objects before the associated person objects could be moved. Regards. Mike

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RE: Deletion of German domains
by mike.norris＠heanet.ie 28 Jun '00

28 Jun '00

> >>>> According to the agreement between RIPE NCC and DENIC we plan > >>> Has this agreement been published? > >> No, this is a working agreement about technical details. It is based on > >> the community consensus that domain related information (excluding > >> reverse delegations) should be moved from the RIPE Database to the > >> respective ccTLD databases. > > Fair enough, but community consensus must be recorded. > > i am confused here. i presume the communities involved, ripe ncc and denic, > reached a consensus and one or the other would be whining if not. why > should this be a concern of the other lirs or the wg or you or me? See Andrei's reply, which points to a decision at RIPE 35 of the db-wg. So the WG has an interest, else RIPE NCC wouldn't have sent it the announcement about today's change in the first place. All I wanted was a reference to the original decision. Regards. Mike

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RE: Deletion of German domains
by mike.norris＠heanet.ie 28 Jun '00

28 Jun '00

> > > According to the agreement between RIPE NCC and DENIC we plan > > > > Has this agreement been published? > > > No, this is a working agreement about technical details. It is based on > the community consensus that domain related information (excluding > reverse delegations) should be moved from the RIPE Database to the > respective ccTLD databases. Fair enough, but community consensus must be recorded. Was this consensus achieved at RIPE 36 and we're still waiting for the relevant minutes? It would be useful to have some reference document, even a draft, but this is **no reflection whatsoever** on the excellent work of RIPE and its working groups! > > The RIPE Database will still be the source for domain related > information using referral mechanism (as long as top level domain > objects point to the actual domain databases). Though it may be more > efficient to query these databases directly. > > > > to delete German (.de) domain objects from RIPE whois database > > > on June 28th. From then on, information about German domains will > > > be available from DENIC's whois server, whois.nic.de. > > > > While speed and efficiency are to be commended, this is rather short > > notice, isn't it? From the mail on 8th June, I understood that DENIC > > would need between one and two months after moving the domain objects > > before the associated person objects could be moved. > > > > You are right, we are moving only domain objects. The person objects > will remain in the RIPE Database for several months. What ever happened to the auto-referral mechanism, whereby a query about a moved object could be referred onward to the appropriate whois server? Regards. Mike

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RIPE whoisd re-implementation: RIP-0.3.1beta1 software snapshot
by RIPE Database Administration 27 Jun '00

27 Jun '00

Dear All, This mail is to notify you of the further advancements in the development of the new implementation of the RIPE Database software. Today, we have freezed the source code into a new snapshot. This is mostly a bugfix snapshot. A considerable change, however, has been made in the installation procedure, i.e. the Makefile structure. It is now easier to compile and run the software. You can download this last snapshot at the following URL: ftp://ftp.ripe.net/ripe/dbase/reimp/RIP-0.3.1beta1.tar.gz You can also test the functionality of this snapshot of the RIP whois server in 2 ways: - By querying host reimp.ripe.net at port 43; you will find there a Near-Real-Time Mirror of the RIPE Database. - By using RIP Test Database. You can send test updates to this database at the address <rip-test(a)ripe.net>, and you can query this database at reimp.ripe.net port 4343. We would be very pleased if you could test the new implementation in both ways, and let us know your opinions. This release also includes a "test" bug, which can be spotted by sending a query satisfying certain conditions to the server and checking the results, which will clearly appear to be wrong. We challenge you to find this bug. The first one to catch it will be granted a wonderful prize! :-) Please send your comments and bug reports to the <db-beta(a)ripe.net> mailing list. To subscribe to this list, send a message to <majordomo(a)ripe.net> with the line: subscribe db-beta in the body of your letter. This is a moderated mailing list, so some delays in subscription are possible. If you have any questions, please contact <ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net>. Regards, Filippo Portera ____________________________ RIPE Database Administration.

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RE: Deletion of German domains
by Shaun O'keefe 27 Jun '00

27 Jun '00

I think you should move the domains over to DENIC but still keep them on the RIPE server untill everything is up and running fine. Shaun O'keefe, Assistant Network Administrator CITEL Technologies Ltd., http://www.citel.com/<?xml:namespace prefix = o /> shaun.okeefe(a)citel.com +44 (115) 940 5444 -----Original Message----- From: mike.norris(a)heanet.ie [ mailto:mike.norris@heanet.ie <mailto:mike.norris@heanet.ie> ] Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 3:21 PM To: 'RIPE Database Administration'; db-wg(a)ripe.net; lir-wg(a)ripe.net Subject: RE: Deletion of German domains > According to the agreement between RIPE NCC and DENIC we plan Has this agreement been published? > to delete German (.de) domain objects from RIPE whois database > on June 28th. From then on, information about German domains will > be available from DENIC's whois server, whois.nic.de. While speed and efficiency are to be commended, this is rather short notice, isn't it? From the mail on 8th June, I understood that DENIC would need between one and two months after moving the domain objects before the associated person objects could be moved. Regards. Mike

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Antwort: Deletion of German domains
by Jörg Bauer/Denic 27 Jun '00

27 Jun '00

On 27.06.00 11:33 RIPE Database Administration <ripe-dbm(a)ripe.net> wrote: > > > Dear Colleagues, > > According to the agreement between RIPE NCC and DENIC we plan > to delete German (.de) domain objects from RIPE whois database > on June 28th. From then on, information about German domains will > be available from DENIC's whois server, whois.nic.de. nearly correct ;-) The server name is whois.denic.de -- ----------------------------------+------------------------------------------- Joerg Bauer | eMail : Joerg.Bauer(a)denic.de DENIC eG | Fon : +49 69 272 35 180 Wiesenhuettenplatz 26 | Fax : +49 69 27235 235 D-60329 Frankfurt | ----------------------------------+-------------------------------------------

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