Tks Leo. By the way, I also forgot to mention that I was sergeant-at-arms of the IETF for almost 12 years, so I've also a deep experience in many abuse situations to the mailing list, which I guess can be very useful. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 26/10/20 12:54, "Leo Vegoda" <leo@vegoda.org> escribió: Hi Jordi, I will place your request on the agenda for the TF's next meeting. Kind regards, Leo On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 4:51 AM Jordi Palet Martínez <jordi.palet@theipv6company.com> wrote: > > Hi all, > > I will like to subscribe to the COC Task Force in order to contribute to the work. > > I've been working in other regions in a similar task, by means of a policy proposal, and I think I can contribute with many points. > > I looked into the web page and it is not clear how to ... > > Regards, > Jordi > @jordipalet > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > > > -- > coc-tf mailing list > coc-tf@ripe.net > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

Hi Leo, all, I'm coping the RIPE Chair and Vice-chair, as this seems to me very strange and extremely ridiculous. Fortunately, I don't know how to say very bad words in English which I've in my mind right now in Spanish, otherwise, you will read all them. I've tried to find the information about how the Task Force membership is "selected" and why is done by the Chair and Vice-Chair. I was unable to find that information. Can you point me to the relevant documents? I only was able to found this email: https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/diversity/2020-September/000526.html An email from September 8th, that I didn't read before (I've been too busy the last few weeks), asking for volunteers. Yes, the email says "Please contact us before 15 September 2020", but doesn't point to a closure of the Task Force membership, or rules for participating, or anything similar. It even says "please", so this is a clear sign, at least in Spanish, that it is preferred to respond before 15th, but not that the call is "closed" by then. To add further information, as indicated in my later email on 26 Oct., I was sergeant-at-arms of the IETF for almost 12 years, so I've also a deep experience in many abuse situations to the mailing list, which I guess can be very useful. So even if there is not (or as said, I was unable to find it) any explicit *community decided* way to select the TF members, clearly this shows that I've something to contribute from practical experience. I never head that in RIPE community we have closed groups. This is clearly against the full concept of openness and in this concrete case, against the full concept of diversity and inclusivity. How come a TF coming out from the Diversity TF, can be closed? I can't believe this. The conclusion is very clear to me. This is just a theater. I think this should be openly exposed to the full RIPE and the other RIRs communities. Very sad situation. I'm also going to talk to my lawyer about all this, in case it is a case of discrimination or other illegal actions, according to laws. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 9/11/20 16:13, "Leo Vegoda" <leo@vegoda.org> escribió: Dear Jordi, You wrote to the coc-tf@ripe.net list on 26 October asking to subscribe so that you could contribute to the work. I promised to place your request on the agenda for the next TF meeting. The Code of Conduct TF met on 6 November and we discussed your request. We agreed that membership of the Code of Conduct TF had been decided by the RIPE Chair and Vice-Chair following an open call for participation. The Code of Conduct TF is not empowered to expand its own membership. We discussed opening the list to new subscribers but agreed that as the majority of the work is done on calls, this adds little benefit. Instead, we agreed to two actions to increase transparency. Firstly, we will make the list archive public. Secondly, we will add a summary of key discussion points and decisions at the top of each set of minutes, to make it easier for people outside the TF to build familiarity with our work. The RIPE NCC will be adding the mailing list archive to the TF web page in the next few days. We encourage you to write to the coc-tf@ripe.net list if you have a contribution to make. As well as listening to the community through our own mailing list and through the ripe-list@ripe.net list, we will actively communicate our progress. Kind regards, Leo Vegoda On behalf of the Code of Conduct TF On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 4:53 AM Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> wrote: > > Hi Jordi, > > I will place your request on the agenda for the TF's next meeting. > > Kind regards, > > Leo > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 4:51 AM Jordi Palet Martínez > <jordi.palet@theipv6company.com> wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > I will like to subscribe to the COC Task Force in order to contribute to the work. > > > > I've been working in other regions in a similar task, by means of a policy proposal, and I think I can contribute with many points. > > > > I looked into the web page and it is not clear how to ... > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** > > IPv4 is over > > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > > http://www.theipv6company.com > > The IPv6 Company > > > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > coc-tf mailing list > > coc-tf@ripe.net > > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

Hi Nick, I'm sorry, but I can't see anything in my email that requires an apologize. Can you tell me exactly what, and they if you're right I'm happy to do that? And note that most of the message was not towards them. I fully understand that the CoCTF is just following a mandate, instructions or whatever way you want to say. If I got it correctly, provided by the Chairs Team, but I can't find any document or email about that. I'm just asking for documents that show that rules agreed by the community are being followed: 1) I was surprised not to see an open mailing list to contribute. 2) I asked to be included in the TF and then I got the message from Leo to wait for the next meeting. I didn't understood that, but waited. 3) Then I get a message telling that is not open. How come a community that talks everyday about inclusivity, being open, transparency, etc., etc., can tell anyone that wish to join to the work that it is not open? 4) Where is the community agreed document to allow a close Task Force? I'm be missing that clearly. 5) I used some irony in my email instead of writing negative thinking's. I think that is very polite, and no way could be considered unappropriated. I've been discriminated, harassed and insulted in *public* RIPE mailing lists several times and I never saw any reaction to that. So now, I'm openly expressing my point of view 6) What is obstructive? Willing to contribute in getting a "no, it is a close membership". When this has been agreed? 7) I've not asked anyone to waste their time. If you volunteer for something, you just do it, and that means providing explanations to others in the community. Same I did tons of times in all the RIRs and related communities. 8) There is nothing disrespectful, unless there is some broken wording from my Spanish-to-English, but as more as I read it, I can't see it. I tried to clearly say that this "close membership" is, in my opinion, totally against the diversity, inclusivity, openness, etc., that we are every day talking about. How it can be? So, if this is the case, for me, in Spanish we call it a theater "we say something, but we do something different". 9) I'm not threatening anyone. I'm just expressing what I think is contrary to the community itself, and I personally feel it as a discrimination. When I feel that something is discriminatory, and possibly against law, I always do the same, because *it is my right to defend my right up to courts if needed*. I've already flighted the Spanish government/institutions in the constitutional court several times and I recall one of the government lawyers defending that institution saying the same "he is a criminal, he is threatening this institution". The result of that was in my favor and a sanction to that lawyer for trying to use "the force of a public institution against a citizen that has the right to defend its rights and fight against what he believes it is wrong". If something is wrong (even if I'm wrong), I clearly have the right to complain, defend my positions, expose it to whoever I consider appropriate. I don't think there is nothing wrong on that. I think we all know each other from many years, and I can't still believe this reaction. Are you really saying that there is no document on a decision for a close membership TF, and complaining about that it is against who took that decision and I can't do that? I've no problem to apologize, but really, I need to understand why. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 10/11/20 12:32, "Niall O'Reilly" <niall.oreilly@ucd.ie> escribió: Jordi, You owe an apology to Leo and his colleagues in the RIPE Code-of-Conduct Task Force, as your message is utterly inappropriate. I expect to see your apology later today. I respectfully suggest that you reflect on your “deep experience in many abuse situations” and consider what consequences usually and normally follow from posting messages which are obstructive, which waste time, and which contain disrespectful and threatening language. I hope I may look forward to your constructive engagement with the RIPE Code-of-Conduct Task Force in response to Leo’s kind invitation to contribute to their work by email. Kind regards, Niall O’Reilly RIPE Vice-Chair On 9 Nov 2020, at 16:51, Jordi Palet Martínez wrote: > Hi Leo, all, > > I'm coping the RIPE Chair and Vice-chair, as this seems to me very > strange and extremely ridiculous. Fortunately, I don't know how to say > very bad words in English which I've in my mind right now in Spanish, > otherwise, you will read all them. > > I've tried to find the information about how the Task Force membership > is "selected" and why is done by the Chair and Vice-Chair. I was > unable to find that information. Can you point me to the relevant > documents? > > I only was able to found this email: > https://www.ripe.net/ripe/mail/archives/diversity/2020-September/000526.html > > An email from September 8th, that I didn't read before (I've been too > busy the last few weeks), asking for volunteers. Yes, the email says > "Please contact us before 15 September 2020", but doesn't point to a > closure of the Task Force membership, or rules for participating, or > anything similar. It even says "please", so this is a clear sign, at > least in Spanish, that it is preferred to respond before 15th, but not > that the call is "closed" by then. > > To add further information, as indicated in my later email on 26 Oct., > I was sergeant-at-arms of the IETF for almost 12 years, so I've also a > deep experience in many abuse situations to the mailing list, which I > guess can be very useful. > > So even if there is not (or as said, I was unable to find it) any > explicit *community decided* way to select the TF members, clearly > this shows that I've something to contribute from practical > experience. > > I never head that in RIPE community we have closed groups. This is > clearly against the full concept of openness and in this concrete > case, against the full concept of diversity and inclusivity. How come > a TF coming out from the Diversity TF, can be closed? > > I can't believe this. > > The conclusion is very clear to me. This is just a theater. I think > this should be openly exposed to the full RIPE and the other RIRs > communities. Very sad situation. > > I'm also going to talk to my lawyer about all this, in case it is a > case of discrimination or other illegal actions, according to laws. > > Regards, > Jordi > @jordipalet > > > El 9/11/20 16:13, "Leo Vegoda" <leo@vegoda.org> escribió: > > Dear Jordi, > > You wrote to the coc-tf@ripe.net list on 26 October asking to > subscribe so that you could contribute to the work. I promised to > place your request on the agenda for the next TF meeting. > > The Code of Conduct TF met on 6 November and we discussed your > request. > > We agreed that membership of the Code of Conduct TF had been > decided > by the RIPE Chair and Vice-Chair following an open call for > participation. The Code of Conduct TF is not empowered to expand > its > own membership. > > We discussed opening the list to new subscribers but agreed that > as > the majority of the work is done on calls, this adds little > benefit. > Instead, we agreed to two actions to increase transparency. > Firstly, > we will make the list archive public. Secondly, we will add a > summary > of key discussion points and decisions at the top of each set of > minutes, to make it easier for people outside the TF to build > familiarity with our work. > > The RIPE NCC will be adding the mailing list archive to the TF web > page in the next few days. > > We encourage you to write to the coc-tf@ripe.net list if you have > a > contribution to make. > > As well as listening to the community through our own mailing list > and > through the ripe-list@ripe.net list, we will actively communicate > our > progress. > > Kind regards, > > Leo Vegoda > On behalf of the Code of Conduct TF > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 4:53 AM Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> wrote: > > > > Hi Jordi, > > > > I will place your request on the agenda for the TF's next > meeting. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Leo > > > > On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 4:51 AM Jordi Palet Martínez > > <jordi.palet@theipv6company.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I will like to subscribe to the COC Task Force in order to > contribute to the work. > > > > > > I've been working in other regions in a similar task, by means > of a policy proposal, and I think I can contribute with many points. > > > > > > I looked into the web page and it is not clear how to ... > > > > > > Regards, > > > Jordi > > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** > > > IPv4 is over > > > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > > > http://www.theipv6company.com > > > The IPv6 Company > > > > > > This electronic message contains information which may be > privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the > exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further > non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a > criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that > any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply > to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > coc-tf mailing list > > > coc-tf@ripe.net > > > https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original > sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

Hi Niall, all, Well, this shows how you missed my points, and it is one of the major issues when dealing in email (which I learnt from the IETF sergeant-of-arms experience), with non-native English speakers. It shows also why the CoC-TF need to have people having different experiences and different "cultural backgrounds". I have seen very different interpretations from Mediterranean people, nordics, british, asian, middle-east, etc. See below in-line. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 10/11/20 20:09, "Niall O'Reilly" <niall.oreilly@ucd.ie> escribió: Jordi, On 10 Nov 2020, at 15:38, Jordi Palet Martínez wrote: > Hi Nick, > > I'm sorry, but I can't see anything in my email that requires an apologize. Can you tell me exactly what, and they if you're right I'm happy to do that? I think the following two examples should be sufficient. On 9 Nov 2020, at 16:51, Jordi Palet Martínez wrote: > I'm coping the RIPE Chair and Vice-chair, as this seems to me very strange and extremely ridiculous. Fortunately, I don't know how to say very bad words in English which I've in my mind right now in Spanish, otherwise, you will read all them. I read this as disrespectful. [Jordi] It is a clear irony, at least Mediterranean people will get like that. a) of course, I know bad words, I just don't want to use them, and if I didn't know them, google will help me - that's the clear irony - don't take now wrong, I think we need examples so you get it. I want to show my "extreme surprise" and how bad it seems to me when reading Leo email. I could have used at a minimum "WTF", but in Spanish I can think in more horrible expressions. b) the "extreme surprise" is about the fact that we have a close membership which (unless I missed that, still nobody provided me a document from the community showing it) seems unreasonable to me in a community that is always insisting in "openness, transparency, inclusivity, diversity, etc.". I always though it is that way, but having "closed" groups will radically change my mind in that. I think that was made clear in the rest of the email. IT IS NOT "bad words" about anyone, it is not I was pretending to insult or blame Leo or the CoCTF members. On 9 Nov 2020, at 16:51, Jordi Palet Martínez wrote: > I'm also going to talk to my lawyer about all this, in case it is a case of discrimination or other illegal actions, according to laws. I read this as a threat. [Jordi] No, it is a way to again express my surprise and my disagreement and that I've always the right to verify if this is right and otherwise to appeal to justice if I believe (I'm right or not) that I'm being discriminated in any way. [Jordi] I'm extremely sensible to law and rights. Some people may consider that a problem and I know that means I get people not happy with me, but I think is the right and honest way to be, not just for me, but for all. Many people complain, but they never take actions. I'm not that kind of guy, I take actions if I'm convinced, I should change something wrong. In Spanish we say "a barking dog seldom bites" - no me. If I believe something is wrong, I try to change it. Tks to that and to legal actions that I took several times against the Spanish government/institutions, even in the Constitutional courts, I succeeded to change broken things in law for everyone, for example the fact that all the political parties were getting all the citizens personal data for sending advertising and there was no way to avoid that, as the ministry of interior responded to me when I asked to retract my data from those databases "unless you're a politician or threatened with death". Now everybody can decide if they want their data sent to the parties or not. [Jordi] Take it on the other direction. I could think "they are telling me if I don't apologize and shut up, they will take actions against me" when you said: "I expect to see your apology later today. I respectfully suggest that you reflect on your “deep experience in many abuse situations” and consider what consequences usually and normally follow from posting messages which are obstructive, which waste time, and which contain disrespectful and threatening language." I may review your nine-point catalogue of challenges when this is convenient for me. I do not intend to be drawn into a correspondence where it seems that I must expect every incoming message to have the characteristics of an aggressive amplification attack. Kind regards, Niall O’Reilly RIPE Vice-Chair ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

Well, my last email actually shows some issues that the CoC should take into consideration, as this kind of misunderstanding can easily happen in a public mailing list. Anyway, I think there is no need to continue this discussion, just to see what documents allow a TF to be a closed group. That's the key in this specific case, but can happen in other "closed" grops as well. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 12/11/20 12:43, "Niall O'Reilly" <niall.oreilly@ucd.ie> escribió: On 12 Nov 2020, at 10:33, Jordi Palet Martínez wrote: > Hi Niall, all, Let’s not intrude further on the time and attention of the members of the Code-of-Conduct Task Force, and keep any further correspondence on this subject between you, Mirjam, and me. Niall ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.