Dear TF members, Here’s the updated CoC process document. Please add any comments you have about final changes that are needed before publication: https://docs.google.com/document/d/158OtFlKlt5Zv1kqZCzr8LFibkNs2mDYKRa0RNTFi... <https://docs.google.com/document/d/158OtFlKlt5Zv1kqZCzr8LFibkNs2mDYKRa0RNTFiq_w/edit> Cheers, Kjerstin
Thanks for sharing the updated draft, Kjerstin! TF, please review the draft and either leave comments in the document or respond here with a +1. We need to identify any final changes we should make. Once we have a final document, we'll share it with the community and ask for comments. Please get your comments in by Thursday, 2 February. Kind regards, Leo On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 04:50, Kjerstin Burdiek <kburdiek@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear TF members,
Here’s the updated CoC process document. Please add any comments you have about final changes that are needed before publication: https://docs.google.com/document/d/158OtFlKlt5Zv1kqZCzr8LFibkNs2mDYKRa0RNTFi...
Cheers, Kjerstin -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf
Yes, thank you, Kjerstin! I've made two comments on the document. One is probably just a note for us all and the future Team, the other is a possible minor piece of disambiguation. Overall I'm very happy. Brian Brian Nisbet (he/him) Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 ________________________________ From: coc-tf <coc-tf-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> Sent: Monday 30 January 2023 14:32 To: Kjerstin Burdiek <kburdiek@ripe.net> Cc: coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. Thanks for sharing the updated draft, Kjerstin! TF, please review the draft and either leave comments in the document or respond here with a +1. We need to identify any final changes we should make. Once we have a final document, we'll share it with the community and ask for comments. Please get your comments in by Thursday, 2 February. Kind regards, Leo On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 04:50, Kjerstin Burdiek <kburdiek@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear TF members,
Here’s the updated CoC process document. Please add any comments you have about final changes that are needed before publication: https://docs.google.com/document/d/158OtFlKlt5Zv1kqZCzr8LFibkNs2mDYKRa0RNTFi...
Cheers, Kjerstin -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf
-- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf
It looks like we just have the two clarifications to incorporate into this draft. When the RIPE NCC has done that, we can publish it to the community. The clarifications are: 1) In the section on submitting the report, use language that allows for reports to be submitted using any reasonable communication method. The example given was a video conference. The key outcome should be a clear report that can be acknowledged and acted on. 2) In the section on appeals, use clearer language to describe an appeal to the RIPE Chair on the broader CoC Team's review of the initial team's decision. Thanks, Leo On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 07:25, Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:
Yes, thank you, Kjerstin!
I've made two comments on the document. One is probably just a note for us all and the future Team, the other is a possible minor piece of disambiguation.
Overall I'm very happy.
Brian
Brian Nisbet (he/him)
Service Operations Manager
HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
+35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
________________________________ From: coc-tf <coc-tf-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> Sent: Monday 30 January 2023 14:32 To: Kjerstin Burdiek <kburdiek@ripe.net> Cc: coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document
CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
Thanks for sharing the updated draft, Kjerstin!
TF, please review the draft and either leave comments in the document or respond here with a +1. We need to identify any final changes we should make. Once we have a final document, we'll share it with the community and ask for comments.
Please get your comments in by Thursday, 2 February.
Kind regards,
Leo
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 04:50, Kjerstin Burdiek <kburdiek@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear TF members,
Here’s the updated CoC process document. Please add any comments you have about final changes that are needed before publication: https://docs.google.com/document/d/158OtFlKlt5Zv1kqZCzr8LFibkNs2mDYKRa0RNTFi...
Cheers, Kjerstin -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf
-- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf
Hi Leo, Hi all, I just received this comment on LinkedIn (after publishing my latest report on RIPE Labs which contained a short section on the progress of the Code of Conduct Task Force): "Thank you for sharing. However, how can the CoC be trusted or the people who are part of it, when in the rules it is clearly stated that: “members of the CoC team will do their best to be discreet”!!! This is extremely worrying. The choice of words imply that there is room for not being discreet and acting in the best interest of the people who raise concerns. How can anyone trust this?" This is in reference to the last sentence in section 3. Report is Assessed. Is this something you could clarify - in the document and/or directly to the person on LinkedIn? Kind regards, Mirjam On 02/02/2023 15:24, Leo Vegoda wrote:
It looks like we just have the two clarifications to incorporate into this draft. When the RIPE NCC has done that, we can publish it to the community.
The clarifications are:
1) In the section on submitting the report, use language that allows for reports to be submitted using any reasonable communication method. The example given was a video conference. The key outcome should be a clear report that can be acknowledged and acted on.
2) In the section on appeals, use clearer language to describe an appeal to the RIPE Chair on the broader CoC Team's review of the initial team's decision.
Thanks,
Leo
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 07:25, Brian Nisbet<brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:
Yes, thank you, Kjerstin!
I've made two comments on the document. One is probably just a note for us all and the future Team, the other is a possible minor piece of disambiguation.
Overall I'm very happy.
Brian
Brian Nisbet (he/him)
Service Operations Manager
HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
+35316609040brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
________________________________ From: coc-tf<coc-tf-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Leo Vegoda<leo@vegoda.org> Sent: Monday 30 January 2023 14:32 To: Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek@ripe.net> Cc:coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document
CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
Thanks for sharing the updated draft, Kjerstin!
TF, please review the draft and either leave comments in the document or respond here with a +1. We need to identify any final changes we should make. Once we have a final document, we'll share it with the community and ask for comments.
Please get your comments in by Thursday, 2 February.
Kind regards,
Leo
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 04:50, Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear TF members,
Here’s the updated CoC process document. Please add any comments you have about final changes that are needed before publication: https://docs.google.com/document/d/158OtFlKlt5Zv1kqZCzr8LFibkNs2mDYKRa0RNTFi...
Cheers, Kjerstin -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf
Hi again, This discussion is also taking place on Telegram (see attached). I believe some of you are on that channel? On one hand some people may be misreading the sentence as it is quoted as "try their best" where it actually says "will do their best". On the other hand, people are suggesting to use a stronger word such as MUST. And possibly "confidential" instead of "discreet". Regards, Mirjam On 03/02/2023 09:59, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:
Hi Leo, Hi all,
I just received this comment on LinkedIn (after publishing my latest report on RIPE Labs which contained a short section on the progress of the Code of Conduct Task Force):
"Thank you for sharing. However, how can the CoC be trusted or the people who are part of it, when in the rules it is clearly stated that: “members of the CoC team will do their best to be discreet”!!! This is extremely worrying. The choice of words imply that there is room for not being discreet and acting in the best interest of the people who raise concerns. How can anyone trust this?"
This is in reference to the last sentence in section 3. Report is Assessed.
Is this something you could clarify - in the document and/or directly to the person on LinkedIn?
Kind regards, Mirjam
On 02/02/2023 15:24, Leo Vegoda wrote:
It looks like we just have the two clarifications to incorporate into this draft. When the RIPE NCC has done that, we can publish it to the community.
The clarifications are:
1) In the section on submitting the report, use language that allows for reports to be submitted using any reasonable communication method. The example given was a video conference. The key outcome should be a clear report that can be acknowledged and acted on.
2) In the section on appeals, use clearer language to describe an appeal to the RIPE Chair on the broader CoC Team's review of the initial team's decision.
Thanks,
Leo
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 07:25, Brian Nisbet<brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:
Yes, thank you, Kjerstin!
I've made two comments on the document. One is probably just a note for us all and the future Team, the other is a possible minor piece of disambiguation.
Overall I'm very happy.
Brian
Brian Nisbet (he/him)
Service Operations Manager
HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
+35316609040brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
________________________________ From: coc-tf<coc-tf-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Leo Vegoda<leo@vegoda.org> Sent: Monday 30 January 2023 14:32 To: Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek@ripe.net> Cc:coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document
CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
Thanks for sharing the updated draft, Kjerstin!
TF, please review the draft and either leave comments in the document or respond here with a +1. We need to identify any final changes we should make. Once we have a final document, we'll share it with the community and ask for comments.
Please get your comments in by Thursday, 2 February.
Kind regards,
Leo
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 04:50, Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear TF members,
Here’s the updated CoC process document. Please add any comments you have about final changes that are needed before publication: https://docs.google.com/document/d/158OtFlKlt5Zv1kqZCzr8LFibkNs2mDYKRa0RNTFi...
Cheers, Kjerstin -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf
🙁 Ok, I think that we can tighten up that line. My very hazy recollection is that it's meant to acknowledge humanity etc. but I do understand that concern people have. I mean, it could be replaced by "Members of the CoC Team are required to exercise discretion when assessing reports. Information should only be shared outside the group when absolutely necessary for the proper assessment of the report." It's still vague, but we can't list every single thing. Because if X does something in corridor Y then maybe X and Y need to be mentioned to find out more. I have just read a situation where an event passed on an unredacted report (including the reporters name) to the subject of the report, and wow, that is utterly wrong, of course. Anyway, there's a suggestion. I'm glad some people are discussing it in the Telegram chat, but given that seems to be a basically unmoderated informal space, they've also got to engage with us at some point. (I say informal because in the 1 minute I browsed it this morning I saw at least one message that contained content that should have been called out and was, instead, liked by one of the admins... Brian Brian Nisbet (he/him) Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 ________________________________ From: coc-tf <coc-tf-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Mirjam Kuehne <mir@zu-hause.nl> Sent: Friday 3 February 2023 09:35 To: Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> Cc: coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. Hi again, This discussion is also taking place on Telegram (see attached). I believe some of you are on that channel? On one hand some people may be misreading the sentence as it is quoted as "try their best" where it actually says "will do their best". On the other hand, people are suggesting to use a stronger word such as MUST. And possibly "confidential" instead of "discreet". Regards, Mirjam On 03/02/2023 09:59, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:
Hi Leo, Hi all,
I just received this comment on LinkedIn (after publishing my latest report on RIPE Labs which contained a short section on the progress of the Code of Conduct Task Force):
"Thank you for sharing. However, how can the CoC be trusted or the people who are part of it, when in the rules it is clearly stated that: “members of the CoC team will do their best to be discreet”!!! This is extremely worrying. The choice of words imply that there is room for not being discreet and acting in the best interest of the people who raise concerns. How can anyone trust this?"
This is in reference to the last sentence in section 3. Report is Assessed.
Is this something you could clarify - in the document and/or directly to the person on LinkedIn?
Kind regards, Mirjam
On 02/02/2023 15:24, Leo Vegoda wrote:
It looks like we just have the two clarifications to incorporate into this draft. When the RIPE NCC has done that, we can publish it to the community.
The clarifications are:
1) In the section on submitting the report, use language that allows for reports to be submitted using any reasonable communication method. The example given was a video conference. The key outcome should be a clear report that can be acknowledged and acted on.
2) In the section on appeals, use clearer language to describe an appeal to the RIPE Chair on the broader CoC Team's review of the initial team's decision.
Thanks,
Leo
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 07:25, Brian Nisbet<brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:
Yes, thank you, Kjerstin!
I've made two comments on the document. One is probably just a note for us all and the future Team, the other is a possible minor piece of disambiguation.
Overall I'm very happy.
Brian
Brian Nisbet (he/him)
Service Operations Manager
HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
+35316609040brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie<http://www.heanet.ie>
Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
________________________________ From: coc-tf<coc-tf-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Leo Vegoda<leo@vegoda.org> Sent: Monday 30 January 2023 14:32 To: Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek@ripe.net> Cc:coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document
CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
Thanks for sharing the updated draft, Kjerstin!
TF, please review the draft and either leave comments in the document or respond here with a +1. We need to identify any final changes we should make. Once we have a final document, we'll share it with the community and ask for comments.
Please get your comments in by Thursday, 2 February.
Kind regards,
Leo
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 04:50, Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear TF members,
Here’s the updated CoC process document. Please add any comments you have about final changes that are needed before publication: https://docs.google.com/document/d/158OtFlKlt5Zv1kqZCzr8LFibkNs2mDYKRa0RNTFi...
Cheers, Kjerstin -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf
Relevant section of the chat. Really not helping any reputation, but it's all super informal, so... Brian Brian Nisbet (he/him) Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 ________________________________ From: Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> Sent: Friday 3 February 2023 09:55 To: Mirjam Kuehne <mir@zu-hause.nl>; Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> Cc: coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document 🙁 Ok, I think that we can tighten up that line. My very hazy recollection is that it's meant to acknowledge humanity etc. but I do understand that concern people have. I mean, it could be replaced by "Members of the CoC Team are required to exercise discretion when assessing reports. Information should only be shared outside the group when absolutely necessary for the proper assessment of the report." It's still vague, but we can't list every single thing. Because if X does something in corridor Y then maybe X and Y need to be mentioned to find out more. I have just read a situation where an event passed on an unredacted report (including the reporters name) to the subject of the report, and wow, that is utterly wrong, of course. Anyway, there's a suggestion. I'm glad some people are discussing it in the Telegram chat, but given that seems to be a basically unmoderated informal space, they've also got to engage with us at some point. (I say informal because in the 1 minute I browsed it this morning I saw at least one message that contained content that should have been called out and was, instead, liked by one of the admins... Brian Brian Nisbet (he/him) Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 ________________________________ From: coc-tf <coc-tf-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Mirjam Kuehne <mir@zu-hause.nl> Sent: Friday 3 February 2023 09:35 To: Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> Cc: coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe. Hi again, This discussion is also taking place on Telegram (see attached). I believe some of you are on that channel? On one hand some people may be misreading the sentence as it is quoted as "try their best" where it actually says "will do their best". On the other hand, people are suggesting to use a stronger word such as MUST. And possibly "confidential" instead of "discreet". Regards, Mirjam On 03/02/2023 09:59, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:
Hi Leo, Hi all,
I just received this comment on LinkedIn (after publishing my latest report on RIPE Labs which contained a short section on the progress of the Code of Conduct Task Force):
"Thank you for sharing. However, how can the CoC be trusted or the people who are part of it, when in the rules it is clearly stated that: “members of the CoC team will do their best to be discreet”!!! This is extremely worrying. The choice of words imply that there is room for not being discreet and acting in the best interest of the people who raise concerns. How can anyone trust this?"
This is in reference to the last sentence in section 3. Report is Assessed.
Is this something you could clarify - in the document and/or directly to the person on LinkedIn?
Kind regards, Mirjam
On 02/02/2023 15:24, Leo Vegoda wrote:
It looks like we just have the two clarifications to incorporate into this draft. When the RIPE NCC has done that, we can publish it to the community.
The clarifications are:
1) In the section on submitting the report, use language that allows for reports to be submitted using any reasonable communication method. The example given was a video conference. The key outcome should be a clear report that can be acknowledged and acted on.
2) In the section on appeals, use clearer language to describe an appeal to the RIPE Chair on the broader CoC Team's review of the initial team's decision.
Thanks,
Leo
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 07:25, Brian Nisbet<brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:
Yes, thank you, Kjerstin!
I've made two comments on the document. One is probably just a note for us all and the future Team, the other is a possible minor piece of disambiguation.
Overall I'm very happy.
Brian
Brian Nisbet (he/him)
Service Operations Manager
HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
+35316609040brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie<http://www.heanet.ie>
Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
________________________________ From: coc-tf<coc-tf-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Leo Vegoda<leo@vegoda.org> Sent: Monday 30 January 2023 14:32 To: Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek@ripe.net> Cc:coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document
CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
Thanks for sharing the updated draft, Kjerstin!
TF, please review the draft and either leave comments in the document or respond here with a +1. We need to identify any final changes we should make. Once we have a final document, we'll share it with the community and ask for comments.
Please get your comments in by Thursday, 2 February.
Kind regards,
Leo
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 04:50, Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear TF members,
Here’s the updated CoC process document. Please add any comments you have about final changes that are needed before publication: https://docs.google.com/document/d/158OtFlKlt5Zv1kqZCzr8LFibkNs2mDYKRa0RNTFi...
Cheers, Kjerstin -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf
Hi, I agree with Brian's analysis. The core issue is that the CoC Team is not capable of controlling information shared by people outside the CoC Team. Members of the Team can and must exercise discretion but people identified in the report, witnesses etc... might not exercise discretion. As the intention behind this statement was not well understood, we obviously need to add some clarity to the text. I'll coordinate with the RIPE NCC to make sure we improve that section as we finalise the new draft and get it ready for publication. I am not on Telegram and cannot respond to that channel. But if anyone who is can share a link to this message in the public mail archive then that would be super. Thanks, Leo On Fri, 3 Feb 2023 at 01:55, Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:
🙁
Ok, I think that we can tighten up that line. My very hazy recollection is that it's meant to acknowledge humanity etc. but I do understand that concern people have. I mean, it could be replaced by "Members of the CoC Team are required to exercise discretion when assessing reports. Information should only be shared outside the group when absolutely necessary for the proper assessment of the report."
It's still vague, but we can't list every single thing. Because if X does something in corridor Y then maybe X and Y need to be mentioned to find out more.
I have just read a situation where an event passed on an unredacted report (including the reporters name) to the subject of the report, and wow, that is utterly wrong, of course.
Anyway, there's a suggestion. I'm glad some people are discussing it in the Telegram chat, but given that seems to be a basically unmoderated informal space, they've also got to engage with us at some point. (I say informal because in the 1 minute I browsed it this morning I saw at least one message that contained content that should have been called out and was, instead, liked by one of the admins...
Brian
Brian Nisbet (he/him)
Service Operations Manager
HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network
1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland
+35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie
Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270
________________________________ From: coc-tf <coc-tf-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Mirjam Kuehne <mir@zu-hause.nl> Sent: Friday 3 February 2023 09:35 To: Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> Cc: coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document
CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.
Hi again,
This discussion is also taking place on Telegram (see attached). I believe some of you are on that channel?
On one hand some people may be misreading the sentence as it is quoted as "try their best" where it actually says "will do their best".
On the other hand, people are suggesting to use a stronger word such as MUST. And possibly "confidential" instead of "discreet".
Regards, Mirjam
On 03/02/2023 09:59, Mirjam Kuehne wrote:
Hi Leo, Hi all,
I just received this comment on LinkedIn (after publishing my latest report on RIPE Labs which contained a short section on the progress of the Code of Conduct Task Force):
"Thank you for sharing. However, how can the CoC be trusted or the people who are part of it, when in the rules it is clearly stated that: “members of the CoC team will do their best to be discreet”!!! This is extremely worrying. The choice of words imply that there is room for not being discreet and acting in the best interest of the people who raise concerns. How can anyone trust this?"
This is in reference to the last sentence in section 3. Report is Assessed.
Is this something you could clarify - in the document and/or directly to the person on LinkedIn?
Kind regards, Mirjam
On 02/02/2023 15:24, Leo Vegoda wrote:
It looks like we just have the two clarifications to incorporate into this draft. When the RIPE NCC has done that, we can publish it to the community.
The clarifications are:
1) In the section on submitting the report, use language that allows for reports to be submitted using any reasonable communication method. The example given was a video conference. The key outcome should be a clear report that can be acknowledged and acted on.
2) In the section on appeals, use clearer language to describe an appeal to the RIPE Chair on the broader CoC Team's review of the initial team's decision.
Thanks,
Leo
On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 at 07:25, Brian Nisbet<brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:
Yes, thank you, Kjerstin!
I've made two comments on the document. One is probably just a note for us all and the future Team, the other is a possible minor piece of disambiguation.
Overall I'm very happy.
Brian
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________________________________ From: coc-tf<coc-tf-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Leo Vegoda<leo@vegoda.org> Sent: Monday 30 January 2023 14:32 To: Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek@ripe.net> Cc:coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated CoC Process Document
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Thanks for sharing the updated draft, Kjerstin!
TF, please review the draft and either leave comments in the document or respond here with a +1. We need to identify any final changes we should make. Once we have a final document, we'll share it with the community and ask for comments.
Please get your comments in by Thursday, 2 February.
Kind regards,
Leo
On Thu, 26 Jan 2023 at 04:50, Kjerstin Burdiek<kburdiek@ripe.net> wrote:
Dear TF members,
Here’s the updated CoC process document. Please add any comments you have about final changes that are needed before publication: https://docs.google.com/document/d/158OtFlKlt5Zv1kqZCzr8LFibkNs2mDYKRa0RNTFi...
Cheers, Kjerstin -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf -- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf
participants (4)
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Brian Nisbet -
Kjerstin Burdiek -
Leo Vegoda -
Mirjam Kuehne