Updated! Cheers Ant On 28/06/2021 18:23, Leo Vegoda wrote:

Hi Antony,

If you put the first list in section 5 and the list in section 6 in alphabetical order then it’s a +1 from me.

Thanks,

— Leo on 📱

...

On Jun 28, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Antony Gollan <agollan@ripe.net> wrote:

Dear TF members,

Here is the updated CoC we went through on Friday's call: https://docs.google.com/document/d/195S9OqJqi0TKumE0o_uln3otXg_-lCEyOsktkIcg...

Let know if I can get this uploaded and ready to publish.

Cheers

Ant

-- coc-tf mailing list coc-tf@ripe.net https://lists.ripe.net/mailman/listinfo/coc-tf

Hi Brian, On Jun 29, 2021, at 6:06 AM, Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:

 I've just had one thought (sorry!)...

We mention "Mental or physical ability" in the list, what we don't do, at any point, is mention disability explicitly.

So I've two questions from this. Do we, as a group, feel that it should be explicitly mentioned, or do we feel it's covered in that sentence?

Can you expand on that? What might be missing?

And if we feel it is covered, can we ask someone who would be affected by that if they agree?

How should we understand “someone” in that sentence? There are many different kinds of disability, so how many people would we need to speak with before making a decision on whether to adjust our text? Regards, Leo

Hi Brian, I read this part of the text: "Behaviours that undermine our values are unacceptable and will not be tolerated [...] Identity discrimination. Any behaviour, actions, or presentation content displaying discrimination based on [...] Mental or physical ability" to mean that discrimination based on disability is not permitted. But perhaps we could tweak that bullet slightly to something like this: - Degree of mental or physical ability or disability Would that work? Kind regards, Leo On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 7:49 AM Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:

Leo,

So most CoCs would have an explicit statement that people should not be discriminated etc. due to disability. It would be a normal piece of such a list. We don't say that, we say mental or physical ability, which may be the same, but I don't feel that I can judge. So I'm asking if others have considered it.

As to asking someone else, well, I don't want to presume, in any way, but there is at least some similarity across visible disabilities, or rather in the way that they have often attracted abuse, derision or harassment. Even asking one person in that very wide and complex group would be better than asking nobody.

I hope that helps?

Brian

Brian Nisbet (he/him)

Service Operations Manager

HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network

1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland

+35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie

Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270

________________________________ From: Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> Sent: Tuesday 29 June 2021 14:48 To: Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> Cc: Antony Gollan <agollan@ripe.net>; coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated Draft Code of Conduct

CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

Hi Brian,

On Jun 29, 2021, at 6:06 AM, Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:

 I've just had one thought (sorry!)...

We mention "Mental or physical ability" in the list, what we don't do, at any point, is mention disability explicitly.

So I've two questions from this. Do we, as a group, feel that it should be explicitly mentioned, or do we feel it's covered in that sentence?

Can you expand on that? What might be missing?

And if we feel it is covered, can we ask someone who would be affected by that if they agree?

How should we understand “someone” in that sentence? There are many different kinds of disability, so how many people would we need to speak with before making a decision on whether to adjust our text?

Regards,

Leo

Thank, Brian. Denesh, are you happy with the updated text? Thanks, — Leo on 📱

On Jun 30, 2021, at 7:10 AM, Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:

 Leo,

I think I like that tweak, and certainly we're likely to receive feedback on it if we've got it wrong and we can change it easily.

Thank you.

With that I'm happy for this to be released.

Brian

Brian Nisbet (he/him) Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 From: Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> Sent: Tuesday 29 June 2021 19:22 To: Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> Cc: Antony Gollan <agollan@ripe.net>; coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated Draft Code of Conduct

CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

Hi Brian,

I read this part of the text:

"Behaviours that undermine our values are unacceptable and will not be tolerated [...] Identity discrimination. Any behaviour, actions, or presentation content displaying discrimination based on [...] Mental or physical ability" to mean that discrimination based on disability is not permitted. But perhaps we could tweak that bullet slightly to something like this:

- Degree of mental or physical ability or disability

Would that work?

Kind regards,

Leo

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 7:49 AM Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:

...

Leo,

So most CoCs would have an explicit statement that people should not be discriminated etc. due to disability. It would be a normal piece of such a list. We don't say that, we say mental or physical ability, which may be the same, but I don't feel that I can judge. So I'm asking if others have considered it.

As to asking someone else, well, I don't want to presume, in any way, but there is at least some similarity across visible disabilities, or rather in the way that they have often attracted abuse, derision or harassment. Even asking one person in that very wide and complex group would be better than asking nobody.

I hope that helps?

Brian

Brian Nisbet (he/him)

Service Operations Manager

HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network

1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland

+35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heanet....

Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270

________________________________ From: Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org> Sent: Tuesday 29 June 2021 14:48 To: Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> Cc: Antony Gollan <agollan@ripe.net>; coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net> Subject: Re: [coc-tf] Updated Draft Code of Conduct

CAUTION[External]: This email originated from outside of the organisation. Do not click on links or open the attachments unless you recognise the sender and know the content is safe.

Hi Brian,

On Jun 29, 2021, at 6:06 AM, Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> wrote:

 I've just had one thought (sorry!)...

We mention "Mental or physical ability" in the list, what we don't do, at any point, is mention disability explicitly.

So I've two questions from this. Do we, as a group, feel that it should be explicitly mentioned, or do we feel it's covered in that sentence?

Can you expand on that? What might be missing?

And if we feel it is covered, can we ask someone who would be affected by that if they agree?

How should we understand “someone” in that sentence? There are many different kinds of disability, so how many people would we need to speak with before making a decision on whether to adjust our text?

Regards,

Leo