Leo,

Thanks for this. As mentioned I can't make the meeting on the 25th, unfortunately.

I completely acknowledge that this is a strawman, but it gives us a good base. 

I think it's important that neither the RIPE Chair nor the NCC MD would be able to simply say "No, that deserves a lower sanction or none at all" which could be what's proposed here. I do believe that there is a category of determination (such as someone being ejected from the current and/or future RIPE meetings) that should be brought to them. However that is not for their agreement, per se. It is for their awareness and input. 

To use a sports analogy, when a referee in rugby checks a decision with the TV match official, that second person needs to present compelling evidence to overturn an on-field decision. They cannot merely say they disagree. So similarly the Chair or MD would need to be very clear in why the determination would be changed.

Equally, in order to avoid either the appearance or actuality of a power imbalance/pressure being applied, the principles and reasoning behind this would have to be made very clear, at least within the CoC Team, if that makes sense?

The balance here, as you set out, is very delicate and certainly we need to avoid both the appearance and actuality of the Chair or MD being able to "save" or "condemn" people at will, because, well, that would be bad.

One consideration in all of this is that the RIPE Community both chooses and can recall the RIPE Chair, and while that community has an influence on the MD (membership via the Board etc.) it does not choose that person, nor can they remove them.

I think it will be very hard to write all of this down in specific process, tbh, but trust in the CoC is the vital thing.

I hope this helps,

Brian

Brian Nisbet (he/him)

Service Operations Manager

HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network

1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland

+35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie

Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270 

From: coc-tf <coc-tf-bounces@ripe.net> on behalf of Leo Vegoda <leo@vegoda.org>
Sent: Friday 11 February 2022 18:13
To: coc-tf@ripe.net <coc-tf@ripe.net>
Subject: [coc-tf] (no subject)
 
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Dear TF and RIPE Chair Team,

Thank you all for a very interesting discussion earlier today.

The action item we took away for us all to think over was the balance
between the authority delegated to the team that performs the initial
investigation in suggesting a consequence and oversight by people with
broader responsibilities. Greater oversight at an earlier stage could
reduce the options for escalation. In other words, what is the balance
between judgement and process?

The proposal below is intended as a straw man for discussion. I am not
emotionally attached to it and won't be offended if I am told that the
balance is wrong. My intention is for us to reach a shared
understanding of why we should or should not draw the balance in a
particular place.

8<---- START STRAW MAN PROPOSAL ----->8

The TF recognises that it does not have a body of experience for the
team that will implement the Code of Conduct to draw on. While that
body of experience is being developed, we favour adjusting the balance
towards greater oversight of suggested consequences. We recognise that
this could leave less opportunity for escalation. In essence, we
favour taking more opportunities to get things right earlier on,
especially when this is a new process.

For example:

The Code of Conduct Team is asked to investigate a report at a RIPE
meeting. The sub-team investigating the report (two trained community
members, plus one RIPE NCC support person) believes that the incident
is sufficiently serious that the subject of the report should not be
admitted to the remainder of the RIPE meeting.

Because they feel the need to suggest such serious consequences they
provide a summary of the incident and the suggested consequences to
both the RIPE Chair and the RIPE NCC Managing Director. Either of
those people is able to adjust the suggested consequences before
implementation.

8<---- END STRAW MAN PROPOSAL ----->8

This straw man proposal is an implicit acknowledgement that we might
want to adjust our processes as we gain more experience. The RIPE
community is likely to suggest changes based on periodic experience
reports.

Please feel free to share your thoughts on this list or at our next
scheduled meeting.

Kind regards,

Leo

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