Hi, the meeting minutes are so vague and unclear that most people would have no idea what is discussed or what the issues are. For instance, the issues include that there is no linkage between the EU privacy laws and the actions taken by RIPE. The same goes for the so-called consensus process. it is so vague and the issues are not spelled out so anyone can claim a "consensus" even though the issues were never really identified. Also, there is a proposal to change the way abuse contacts are listed in the database. however, there is no description as to what makes those contacts fundamentally different from other contacts as it relates to the law and the claimed "consensus". The minutes seemed designed to make sure outsiders have no idea what is going on. It is interesting to note the ".ro" database that claims technical contacts cannot be revealed because it is protected by a specific privacy law. they also claim "copyrights" on the data even though copyrights do not cover lists of facts like whois data. Thank You
Hi, "lists@help.org" wrote the following on 12/06/2012 16:38:
Hi,
the meeting minutes are so vague and unclear that most people would have no idea what is discussed or what the issues are. For instance, the issues include that there is no linkage between the EU privacy laws and the actions taken by RIPE. The same goes for the so-called consensus process. it is so vague and the issues are not spelled out so anyone can claim a "consensus" even though the issues were never really identified.
If the minutes are unclear you can view the full WG stream and read the stenography here: https://ripe64.ripe.net/archives/#Thursday https://ripe64.ripe.net/archives/steno/21 https://ripe64.ripe.net/programme/meeting-plan/anti-abuse-wg/ I'm not sure what other questions you have, precisely.
Also, there is a proposal to change the way abuse contacts are listed in the database. however, there is no description as to what makes those contacts fundamentally different from other contacts as it relates to the law and the claimed "consensus". The minutes seemed designed to make sure outsiders have no idea what is going on.
The full text of 2011-06 as it stands right now can be found here: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/policies/proposals/2011-06 This policy has not reached consensus and is still in review phase, as Emilio stated last week.
It is interesting to note the ".ro" database that claims technical contacts cannot be revealed because it is protected by a specific privacy law. they also claim "copyrights" on the data even though copyrights do not cover lists of facts like whois data.
Interesting, certainly, but not relevant to 2011-06 because that only relates to the RIPE DB. In fact 2011-06 is attempting to make abuse contact more accessible to everyone, even in bulk. Brian.
If the minutes are unclear you can view the full WG stream and read the stenography here:
Since the minutes are unclear I request you update the minutes to make them clear. Many people have no idea about the RIPE process and if they read the minutes they should be able to get some idea about the issues. Only a tiny, almost infinitesimal, fraction of the many millions of Internet users affected by the issues would have enough inside knowledge to figure out what was going on. It is not practical to demand people sift through large amounts of data to get basic information about what is going on.
Interesting, certainly, but not relevant to 2011-06 because that only relates to the RIPE DB. In fact 2011-06 is attempting to make abuse contact more accessible to everyone, even in bulk.
As I have explained many times is is not just an issue of making it "more accessible to everyone" it is about following laws, procedures, and policies and being able to explain the authority for any action that is taken. I realize for most of the people involved they have never done this, they make things up as they go along, and then they go around harassing people and accusing them of being spammers if they dare to raise these issues. But that is not really a legitimate process.
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Brian Nisbet -
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