Re: [anti-abuse-wg] Abusive behavior by Google Inc
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In message , andre@ox.co.za writes
Incase anyone receives weird NON RFC bounces, from @gmail.com customers saying:
Technical details of permanent failure: read error: generic::failed_precondition: read error (0): error
What this means is:
Google Inc does REPLACE the "Blocked for abuse / spam /scams / phish / virus / spyware messages from the various filters
and sens a cryptic non RFC message to their users implying that the receivers email server is broken in some way....
This is truly EVIL of Google to do...
As they, Google are the ones sending PHISH / VIRUS/ SCAMS / SPAM!
Example: @209.85.218.43
This is a complex example involving an email delivered to a gmail account and forwarded from there to Yahoo I cannot see "failed_precondition" anywhere on that page at all :-( - -- richard Richard Clayton Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a Benjamin little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Franklin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 iQA/AwUBVw+uJju8z1Kouez7EQLTHQCg/Pmx1aoc8dggv+u24arozup8p7MAnjw0 R0+PztMI5ooo3trIcOro7Ecv =yK7e -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Thu, 14 Apr 2016 15:50:14 +0100 Richard Clayton <richard@highwayman.com> wrote:
Incase anyone receives weird NON RFC bounces, from @gmail.com customers saying: Technical details of permanent failure: read error: generic::failed_precondition: read error (0): error What this means is: Google Inc does REPLACE the "Blocked for abuse / spam /scams / phish / virus / spyware messages from the various filters and sens a cryptic non RFC message to their users implying that the receivers email server is broken in some way.... This is truly EVIL of Google to do... As they, Google are the ones sending PHISH / VIRUS/ SCAMS / SPAM!
Example: @209.85.218.43 http://www.scammed.by/scam.php?id=185816 This is a complex example involving an email delivered to a gmail account and forwarded from there to Yahoo I cannot see "failed_precondition" anywhere on that page at all :-(
209.85.218.43 is simply one of the many google IP numbers currently listed for spam, phish, virus and other abuse... I have headers for the gmail bounce message: "read error: generic::failed_precondition: read error (0): error" and I seriously doubt if gmail would try to deny this bounce - as I do not have one, but many many headers of many many different google ip numbers. So, it is not a discussion about whether this is happening or about what is happening - but a discussion about what it means that it is happening. Simply: What it means is that Google is not returning emails with any acceptable bounce message but choosing to bounce emails with cryptic custom messages that IMPLY that the receiver email servers are somehow broken. This has serious implications for everyone that is not gmail as gmail does not accept resposibility for their abuse, does not repair or fix their abuse timerously BUT instead bounce and point the finger at their victims. This serves to INCREASE their monopoly as well as HURT smaller hosts - we lost three customers today, because of EVIL Google. And, you may say, well so what - but wait until this happens to you as this action actually serves to steal our small amount of customers who now employ / pay the same people that abused us in the first place. Not nice. Not ethical. Not fair. EVIL. andre
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In message , andre@ox.co.za writes
Example: @209.85.218.43 http://www.scammed.by/scam.php?id=185816 This is a complex example involving an email delivered to a gmail account and forwarded from there to Yahoo I cannot see "failed_precondition" anywhere on that page at all :-(
209.85.218.43 is simply one of the many google IP numbers currently listed for spam, phish, virus and other abuse...
OK ... so the URL was a complete red herring, and the complexity of what was going on there is completely irrelevant
I have headers for the gmail bounce message: "read error: generic::failed_precondition: read error (0): error" and I seriously doubt if gmail would try to deny this bounce - as I do not have one, but many many headers of many many different google ip numbers.
It is impossible to do anything but speculate without the actual email and full headers to hand.
So, it is not a discussion about whether this is happening or about what is happening - but a discussion about what it means that it is happening.
Simply: What it means is that Google is not returning emails with any acceptable bounce message but choosing to bounce emails with cryptic custom messages that IMPLY that the receiver email servers are somehow broken.
This has serious implications for everyone that is not gmail
that entirely escapes me ... why would an email bounce (whether RFC compliant or not) which is generated by gmail [when one of their customers sends you email and you elect to refuse delivery] have any implications for anyone else at all ?
This serves to INCREASE their monopoly as well as HURT smaller hosts - we lost three customers today, because of EVIL Google.
I suspect that these customers have learnt that you are setting great store by SORBS's opinion that accepting email from Google is undesirable (which I think places you in a very small minority of mail service providers). If these customers are keen to receive email sent to them by their friends at Google then I cannot see that your service is suitable for their needs. Do you think this RIPE WG has a role in assisting them in seeking a refund ? That might be an interesting topic to explore. - -- richard Richard Clayton Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a Benjamin little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Franklin -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPsdk version 1.7.1 iQA/AwUBVw+1sju8z1Kouez7EQJW+ACg0DnxfnOF6bKZJq1oltOBc4f3HKUAn27W gUUwGK74a0/IFImpSxNJOZce =8v+v -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
participants (2)
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andre＠ox.co.za -
Richard Clayton