On Tue, 16 Aug 2016 14:23:21 +0000 David Hilario <fransossen@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi Andre,

Thank you so much David That is a very complete, informed and direct answer I also do not foresee anything changing anytime soon, or that there is even a need for anything to change, for that matter. We do really need a definition of "abuse" though, as some actions may, or may not be abuse and/or crimes - and when there are general discussions about "abuse" it would be good to know the definition and/or parameters. It would be within the scope of an operational abuse list, to define what abuse is. So, we are still at this last definition: "The non sanctioned use of a resource to infringe upon the usage rights of another resource" Current discussions about what needs to be added still? (add if I am missing anyone or anything please) (1) Gert Doering suggested that "there are legal reason why someone could infringe on someon else's use rights" - added the 'non sanctioned' - seems fine now, Gert? (2) unauthorized access / hacking / and/or breaking in ( Dave Crocker - abuse concerns unauthorized access ) (Andre - breaking in is crime, abuse is use something for bad purpose ) (3) causing damage to others ( Dave Crocker - "and to actions that inflict damage on others" ) ( Michele Neylon - I like the idea of “damage” or “harm” on others The “infringe on usage .. “ thing didn’t seem very clear to me and I don’t see how that would apply to spam etc) (Andre - damage is a result of an action or result of abuse? crime?)

...

Maybe you can help, David?

When RIPE investigates "abuse" what are they investigating? Crimes? Criminal activity? Fraud? or actual abuse?

Short version: RIPE NCC can only investigate and take actions against resource holders based on RIPE policy violations and contractual agreement violations. (With the exception of legal requirements such as court orders enforceable under dutch law, embargo that apply to Dutch based organisation, RIPE NCC functions under Dutch law and has to comply at that level...but those things are outside of the scope of the RIPE policies)

Long version: This is the document you are looking for: https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-640

It lists the reasons for being under violations and the eventual consequences (de-registration of resources, closure of LIR).

Anything else is actually sort of irrelevant, unless a RIPE policy is to be put in place against something that would be defined as "abuse". This would be decided here within the WG and not by the RIPE NCC.

The RIPE NCC will then be able to enforce the policy that has been decided here.

I don't really foresee any of that changing anytime soon though. But actions are taken, where actions can be taken by the RIPE NCC, based on the current set of policies.

Cheers, David