Gert,

-----Original Message----- From: Gert Doering <gert@space.net> Sent: Friday 17 May 2019 11:15 To: Brian Nisbet <brian.nisbet@heanet.ie> Cc: Gert Doering <gert@space.net>; Suresh Ramasubramanian <ops.lists@gmail.com>; anti-abuse-wg@ripe.net Subject: Re: [anti-abuse-wg] 2019-04 New Policy Proposal (Validation of "abuse-mailbox")

Hi,

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:08:24AM +0000, Brian Nisbet wrote:

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And, at least try the minimum amount of politeness in quoting according to local customs.

Can we please let this particular one go?

No. We manage to do this on the APWG list just fine.

Great. I mean, I can find a few incidents of top posting on APWG, but maybe they all get a polite mail from you and never do it again? Neither I nor the other Co-Chairs have any wish to impose such style guides on AAWG.

It can be done if people *care*. And this caring is a matter of basic politness, "if you enter a discussion, you follow style of the previous speakers".

If the AAWG list is "we have no interest in politness towards people who actually have to read what others write, and try to make sense out of discussions with quoting", I will no longer *read* what is written here, because it takes too much valuable lifetime.

You're extrapolating in a very wrong way here. We have great interest in politeness and clear communication. But I'm also realistic enough to realise that I'm not going to stop people from posting if they don't follow a particular style. This is an open mailing list with lots of different people on it. Honestly, I was all for "inline only" back in the day, but I've made my peace with reality on this one. It is a great pity that you decide not to read conversations I still believe are fairly easy to comprehend.

Isn't this the place where we discuss about (very complicated) rules wrt e- mail abuse handling verifcation? And we're not able to agree on a basic set of rules for useful e-mail discussions?

Opinions will vary, consensus will not be reached. There are hills I will die on, this is not one of them. If it's one you will die on, then that will be a great loss to the working group as your wisdom and experience are greatly appreciated. Maybe we could honestly, pause this discussion here and take it up in person in Reykjavik as I do feel that might be more productive. Thanks, Brian (With a bit more of his Co-Chair hat on, but even so) Brian Nisbet Service Operations Manager HEAnet CLG, Ireland's National Education and Research Network 1st Floor, 5 George's Dock, IFSC, Dublin D01 X8N7, Ireland +35316609040 brian.nisbet@heanet.ie www.heanet.ie Registered in Ireland, No. 275301. CRA No. 20036270